Posted on 02/25/2008 8:57:10 AM PST by qam1
At lunch recently, a father of four who works in publishing told me he occasionally gives his children "a clip around the ear".
The threat of minor violence, he said, was the fastest way to get his brood into the people carrier if they were all to get out of the house on time. It wasn't so much the fact that this otherwise modern thirtysomething father would slap his children that shocked me, but the fact that he spoke about it so openly. A decade ago, he might have been worried that I'd call social services - or at least recommend an anger management course.
In the 21st century, however, discipline is in. Thanks in part to the rise of television programmes about parenting, such as Supernanny and House of Tiny Tearaways, naughty steps, finishing what's on your plate and strict bedtime routines are back in vogue.
And this week the Sentencing Guidelines Council, which sets down rules for Britain's magistrates and judges, called for leniency in sentencing parents who are brought to court for smacking their children - a sea change in attitudes from just four years ago, when the right to a defence of "reasonable chastisement" was removed under the Children Act.
As a mother of two, I know how testing small children can be. The closest I came to lashing out was when one of mine almost ran into a busy road. I stopped her just in time, but I was so lost for words, so horrified at what might have happened that a smack felt almost natural - the only language either of us might have understood. Although I stopped myself before the message transmitted from brain to back of hand, because I feel slapping is a lazy form of discipline, I couldn't promise I would never lash out. So when friends confess, as many have, that they have hit their children, I find it impossible to be too judgmental.
My generation grew up in a culture in which smacking children was commonplace. Talking to friends, it is clear that they all remember, in vivid detail, when they were smacked. My primary school in the 1970s offered the slipper - in front of the school - or the cane for the very naughty.
Now those days are back - for some families, at least. Smacking is no longer taboo. Recently, on mumsnet.com, the popular parenting website, whether or not to smack your child was the hottest of topics. "I don't, because I don't like it or find it a necessary way to discipline my children," said one mother. "But others find it effective and don't have a problem with it."
Said another: "I have smacked my son twice and he is four. Both times it was for something quite serious. I have threatened a smack when I have been tired or ill, but not followed through."
Another mother said: "I smacked my seven-year-old disabled child when he was trying to gouge out his father's eyes, quite deliberately. My husband was strapping him into the car and couldn't defend himself. Violence with violence. Not great. But I did it."
Justine Roberts, co-founder of the site, says women are becoming more open about their anger towards their children: "A few people are saying [smacking] is a strategy for managing their children and it's the only effective one they've found. But most admit they've done it once or twice in anger but feel awful about it. There's a huge amount of sympathy for parents who are being pushed to the limit."
None of my friends needed any persuasion to off-load a little guilt about parental crimes. One, a 37-year-old marketing director, said: "It was three years ago when my daughter was two and I have never, ever forgotten it.
"We were with my husband's family and we'd had a taxing day on the beach. My daughter was hot and sandy and exhausted and so was I. I was trying to change her nappy and she just would not stop wriggling. Suddenly I lashed out and whacked her on the leg. She was stunned and just froze. She stared at me and all I could see was that she had been humiliated and betrayed. I felt sick and then cuddled her and said sorry. I'm ashamed to admit that I said: 'Please don't tell Daddy'."
Another, a 40-year-old novelist, told me: "One afternoon after school I held on to my 10-year-old and just shook him. I felt very stressed about work and my relationship, and he had broken an expensive toy. I felt terrible afterwards, apologised and promised to myself never to do it again. I think it's really bad parenting to hit children."
Children can't defend
While some parents may be more relaxed about corporal punishment, Elizabeth Hartley Brewer, an expert in child development and parenting, believes that such attitudes must be resisted. "Children can't defend themselves verbally or physically," she says.
"Psychologically, smacking can do them enormous harm. And it's a lazy way to look after children. Physical punishment can delay and confuse moral development and does nothing to preserve their self-respect. When I've talked to children who've been hit, every one of them can remember when it happened. When my daughter was about two, I lashed out about something and I regret it enormously. She was totally let down by me and burst into tears."
Those who have never lost their cool and hit out should not be feeling smug, however. There are, Hartley Brewer admits, worse forms of punishment for children. "Some of those horrible TV programmes have made people proud of disciplining their children, regardless of how they do it," she says. "I've met people who don't hit but think it's perfectly OK to make their child wash their mouth out with soap or even eat their lunch naked as a punishment. As for the naughty step, that can be just as damaging as a smack if it is used to humiliate a child."
Imperial Leather for supper hardly counts as "reasonable chastisement". Perhaps if modern mothers knew more about such extreme parenting styles, we'd stop beating ourselves up about the occasional outburst.
Yep, I think the worst so far we’ve had to do for my daughter was to wash her mouth out with soap when she let a Sh!t slip out of her mouth. She never said it in our presence again.
My boy, he’s just like me, naturally anti-authority and constantly checking where the boundaries are. Sometimes he’s so far in his own head with stuff the only way to get his attention so that we can actually explain the boundaries is to spank him. I HATE IT but if I am calm then I know I’m doing the right thing.
Oldest boy is waaayyy adhd. We were young when we had him—not a good combo, but I don’t know if anyone is really equipped to handle such a child. Daughter is in the middle, and a Godsend. Youngest is just S-t-u-b-b-o-r-n. I think he was born 45 and he’s gradually working his way back to his birth age, currently 18.
A smack to the face beats “Time Out” anyday of the week. Just don’t overdo it, or your kids may start asking you to tie them up and whip them as they get older...
About two weeks ago his father and I went to the school and met him in the principal's office. We told him, in no uncertain terms, that if he were disrespectful or disobedient or in trouble one more time this year, one of us would be coming to the school, bending him over the principal's desk and spanking his butt.
He's been *really* good since that day. (With the exception of a misplaced library book.) At home it's "Yes, ma'am" and "no, sir". He's not depressed. If anything he seems calmer and more loving. Weird, but he almost acts relieved.
The hard part was getting the principal to understand why we wanted to do what we were doing. He kept saying, "he's not that bad of a kid." I kept saying, "I want to keep it that way!" In the end we did get his unconditional support.
OK, I didn’t read this really. But isn’t “SuperNanny” another woman who just uses “time-outs” and doesn’t hit?
Father first, friend second.
‘While some parents may be more relaxed about corporal punishment, Elizabeth Hartley Brewer, an expert in child development and parenting, believes that such attitudes must be resisted. “Children can’t defend themselves verbally or physically,” she says.’
The problem is, they usually START it! Why NOT physically get back at a little brat who thinks he’s high & mighty enough to hit people?
This has been the way for centuries; it is natural (look at other animals). Why do we think suddenly in the last 50 years (Dr. Spock) that we know better? Kids and pets are much more annoying and bratty and unlikeable now. Connection to this permissive style with no threat of hitting? You bet.
And I’ve always wondered, “how do you KEEP the kid in the corner for ‘time-out’ if they don’t really want to obey?”
Thanks for the great laugh on a Monday!
I spanked my daughter for running into the road. A neighbor said “do you want her to fear you”
Similar is the parent who would smack a kid so they DON’T go out in the road. To which I’d reply, “Do you want her to get run over?”
People need to read Bill Koehler’s old dog-training book, who used similar replies to ninnies. They’d get the idea on discipline from that now-hated dog book.
That sounds too familiar.....
That sounds like an opinion.
You might consider that the advent of your kind of thinking very closely tracks the decline of civility and academic achievement in our society as a whole.
Think there might be some correlation?
(I won't even get into what scripture has to say...)
If given a choice, both of my kids prefer to be spanked over any other punishment. As my daughter says, "A couple of stings, you learn your lesson and it's over. Grounding and restrictions just go on and on! It's torture! Half the time you forget why you were grounded anyway. You always remember why you got a spanking."
They're teenagers now and I think they got the right idea.
A year ago my daughter was 15 and had been a handful for about 6 months. I'd tried talking to her, teaching her, listening to her, trying to work with her, but the disrespect was getting completely out of hand. One night she got saucy with me for the last time. I jacked her against the wall and smacked the crap out of her. I then told her that I'd had it and that if she couldn't *feel* respect for me, she'd better hide it real well. I told her that this was *my* house and that she'd act like the well-behaved guest or face the consequences.
After that, not ONE problem. Not one. She started talking to me again, sharing problems and treating me with love.
I haven't had to tan her hide many times, but sometimes it really is the best solution. Spanking is *one* aspect of parenting, not the whole thing and certainly not the answer to every problem.
Personally, I don’t like the caution against “lashing out in anger”, or however you want to phrase it.
I think it’s psychotic if you lash out when you’re happy, or too calm, or whatever. Physical punishment should be coupled and identified with the “anger”. What’s wrong with being angry? It makes more sense. When the parent shows anger, the kid knows now to stop before it goes to the physical.
And don’t hand the nonsense that you’re more likely to be “abusive” if you’re angry. More likely, maybe, but still very small % chance of being truly abusive as to not count.
As for remembering? I remember only being spanked once. I know I was hit when a toddler, which I simply cannot remember as a matter of course, because I was told so. They almost never needed to hit me because the message got through. I got a few more “tongue-lashings” than I got spankings.
duct tape.
“Dr. Spock disavowed his own writings and theories ages ago... and still idiots buy and follow his trype(sic).”
Really? I never read about him changing his mind. Is there any source for this?
My mother was 1 who resisted the Spock phenomenon when it was just about 10 years old and all the rage (and probably raised alot of our Hippies). She was pushed into it by all the vogue moms but she read the book (late ‘50s) and just dumped it, calling it a bunch of hogwash.
bump for later
“My mom always did say she never had a problem taking us out in public anywhere and that we were well behaved.”
Yup, I and my siblings too. Including at the “you-can’t-control-them” stages of 2 and 3.
Those stages, LOL - people seem to think now every age is a “stage” for a kid to go through, as a brat, and they can ignore the kids’ behavior because “it’s just a stage and you can’t do anything”!
“Can you imagine trying to get 5 out of their car seats and into the store, then reverse that?!”
You didn’t have to do that BS then. There was no such thing. It was freedom from government interference.
And they wonder why more kids seem to be left in cars to freeze and fry.
You got stones Marie!! Good job.
I’ll have to remember this story for later :)
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