Methinks the writer doth protest to much. Now I KNOW I must see it...
These rabid protesters are going to give the movie millions of dollars worth of publicity - now EVERYone will have to see it...
Posted on 04/17/2008 10:54:25 AM PDT by Boxen
Big time.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=scientific-american-50-po-2006-12
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-flipping-point
I love how liberals are trying to push Stein as a Christian Theocrat. Isn’t Ben Stein Jewish?
You don't want to know, you want it explained. You're like the 10 year old that spoils the magic show by annoying the magician asking how he did the trick. Faith my friend is what you need to seek, not knowledge.
That being said, if God were to show himself tomorrow and provide proof that he created the universe, I'd be the first one in line to subscribe to his recollection of events. But until that point, I'm going to keep searching.
He did. You're too blind to see! His proof is in everything you see and hear. Some for the good and some that is not that great, but the proof is there. Very subtle but there. But prove it yourself. Make something out of absolute nothing. Dust could not exist without God. It just wasn't suddenly there. God created it as well as you. His wonderful gift is to give you free will to accept or denounce him. People like you only seem to accept him when your clutching your heart or about to die, yet you seem to denounce those that where hurting with addiction and were saved. It sounds like your "exposure" to God only comes from AA meetings. Try church and open up your heart. We are not freaks or vampires looking to cram Jesus down your throat. It doesn't work that way. God will reveal himself to you through his son, who died for you, if only you ask....and sincerely mean it.
SciAm May 2006
“Because of the complexity of the problem, environmental skepticism was once tenable. No longer. It is time to flip from skepticism to activism. “
How scientific! Lots of credibility there, NOT.
Or I want to do the explaining. And yes, I would be that annoying 10 year old. I guess that's why I'm an engineer and not a theologist.
He did. You're too blind to see! His proof is in everything you see and hear. Some for the good and some that is not that great, but the proof is there. Very subtle but there. But prove it yourself. Make something out of absolute nothing.
You sound like a disgraced former Canadian Prime Minister.
"I don't know! A proof is a proof. What kind of a...proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof it's because it's proven."
From the horse's ass mouth to your ears.
You can't create something from nothing. And the whole idea of God brings up another issue. If God created us, who/what created God? And so on ad infinitum. Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is the most probable, and since the whole idea of God gets us into an infinite loop of questions without answers, I'm more inclined to believe the simpler answer, that some other force created the universe.
Dust could not exist without God. It just wasn't suddenly there. God created it as well as you. His wonderful gift is to give you free will to accept or denounce him. People like you only seem to accept him when your clutching your heart or about to die, yet you seem to denounce those that where hurting with addiction and were saved.
I disagree. The idea of God couldn't exist without sentient life to create it. I agree that dust just wasn't suddenly there, but you CAN create heaver elements out of lighter ones, therefore it's not out of the realm of possibility that we started with the constituents of sub-atomic particles and worked our way up from there.
I'd be willing to bet a significant amount that I know a lot more about your faith and the history of it than you do about the Big Bang theory or any other theories about the creation/destruction of the universe. The problem I find with many people on BOTH sides of this argument is there is a degree of willful ignorance about the other side. I don't enter an argument without knowing enough about the other side to argue intelligently. I'm not trying to change anyone else's belief here, I'm just trying to show you that there are other points of view that are just as valid as yours.
It sounds like your "exposure" to God only comes from AA meetings. Try church and open up your heart. We are not freaks or vampires looking to cram Jesus down your throat. It doesn't work that way. God will reveal himself to you through his son, who died for you, if only you ask....and sincerely mean it.
If only. My experience is first hand, I attended Sunday school for about a year as a child. I did the weekly English reading at our church's Saturday evening mass for a time when I was a little older than that.
Cognitive dissonance is the state of holding two competing beliefs and being able to twist the facts enough to justify both of them. Tell me how exactly it is that God loves every single one of his children, and yet will not hesitate to send one of them to hell if they don't repent.
That being said. I do realize that there are MANY things we don't understand about life. And especially sentient life. We don't know exactly what it is that gives us "intelligence". Scientists are much more cautious to argue that we are alone in the universe (which is an open question, with exactly one data point), let alone the most advanced or intelligent species in the universe.
These people would object to DNA or fingerprint evidence in a court case, saying it must have self-organized on the site.
Indeed!
ONLY God, ceates life.
This is where I just don't understand thumpers!
If God created The Universe and therefore every particle of matter and energy in it. Then when life sprang from the primordial cauldron three billion years ago, how could that not be God creating life through evolution? Why should that diminish one's faith?
How could any person of faith attempt to ascribe to God one method of implementing His plan over another?
How is it possible they do not see that Science has only validated the existence of God? "The Big Bang" was the moment at the beginning of time that God Created everything from. This singular causality fits quite adequately in Genesis if you do not attempt to pigeonhole God. Other Biblical evolutions are clearly bolstered by Darwin's Theory running parallel and true. You need not cast around for Magic Aliens or Intelligent Designers when it only took one Creator just as Genesis first explained and Science has not negated.
“If God created The Universe and therefore every particle of matter and energy in it. Then when life sprang from the primordial cauldron three billion years ago, how could that not be God creating life through evolution? Why should that diminish one’s faith?”
Where do you get this “primordial cauldron” idea and “three billion” years ago? My God SPOKE it into existence in 7, 24 hour days. He didn’t need “three billion” years to get His act together. Nor is He an “ape”. I and He are not the image of an ape. What you chose to believe - “three billion years” ago and this “primordial cauldron “ spells out rather clearly that you have NO faith. YOU just don’t see it or want to admit it.
“How could any person of faith attempt to ascribe to God one method of implementing His plan over another?”
A person of “faith” believes what He says. It takes away from the mulitpke choices that evolutionists got through all the time.
Creation and what Genesis states has NOTHING in common with Darwin or evolution. The choice is yours. Believe what you wish. My God delivers on what He says. I don’t know who your god is ... .
God always was and always will be. The problem is that this argument is taken from the realm of human mortality and its limitations, not immortality and the power of the divine. God never had a beginning and will never have an end.
I agree that dust just wasn't suddenly there, but you CAN create heaver elements out of lighter ones,
Then where did the heavier element come from? A heavier one and on it goes. It came from something. Even if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory where did the matter come from? It was always there? Why can that be believed but the existance of God cannot?
I'd be willing to bet a significant amount that I know a lot more about your faith and the history of it than you do about the Big Bang theory or any other theories about the creation/destruction of the universe.
You know the history of a Theory? A theory is unproven fact. Its conjecture based on slim evidence, which is why its the Theory of Evolution not the Fact of Evolution. So you know alot about conjecture. God has revealed himself through numberous men and through his son Jesus Christ. There are more books written on Christ alone then the Big Bang and Evolution put together. Since you do not know Christ, you cannot possibly know more than I!
My experience is first hand, I attended Sunday school for about a year as a child. did the weekly English reading at our church's Saturday evening mass for a time when I was a little older than that.
A whole year? What where you? Training to be a Pope? Just kidding. Anyone can read. It takes more than just reading the bible. You choose not to believe the word of God, Free will baby! His greatest gift, and your unfortuniately your potential greatest loss.
Scientists are much more cautious to argue that we are alone in the universe (which is an open question, with exactly one data point), let alone the most advanced or intelligent species in the universe.
Same ones that invented Global Warming? What truly do they Not a slam against you, but true enlightenment comes from the word of God. Its existed for thousands of years and has yet to be proven wrong. Read The Case For Christ Written by an athiest lawyer seeking to prove Christ was not the son of God, and in his failing became enlightened! Good Luck FRiend!
“Atheism is not the absence of religion. It is a faith too.”
No quite. Atheism is by definition simply the absence of a belief in the divine. What ever atheistic belief system that one has instead of a religion arguably may have some degree of faith in it, if nothing more than faith that they can believe their eyes, but faith is not the defining feature of a religion. A belief in the supernatural is what makes someones ideology a religion.
“I’m a pro evo and I cannot wait to see it.”
It’ll be in my Netflix Que right behind “Inconvenient Truth” and “Fahrenheit 9/11”.
So you believe.
Then where did the heavier element come from? A heavier one and on it goes. It came from something. Even if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory where did the matter come from? It was always there? Why can that be believed but the existance of God cannot?
It's called nuclear fusion baby! A process that we utilize each and every single day. It produces much of the energy used by plant life, and therefore a significant quantity of the energy used by animal life (humans included). As for the big bang theory, when we start getting into things like dark matter and dark energy, well...it gets complicated. But because of the nature of the universe we can't see to the big bang (only the background radiation left over from it) or through the big bang, so there's no way of knowing when/how it happened or what existed before.
You know the history of a Theory? A theory is unproven fact. Its conjecture based on slim evidence, which is why its the Theory of Evolution not the Fact of Evolution. So you know alot about conjecture. God has revealed himself through numberous men and through his son Jesus Christ. There are more books written on Christ alone then the Big Bang and Evolution put together. Since you do not know Christ, you cannot possibly know more than I!
A theory is what best fits the facts as currently known. It's not conjecture based on slim evidence (that would be a hypothesis, but I wouldn't use the word conjecture). I'd like to see those numbers if you please. I would argue that the subject is the same, whether you're talking God or a non-theistic view of the creation of the universe. And the last sentence is pure hubris, nothing more.
Same ones that invented Global Warming? What truly do they Not a slam against you, but true enlightenment comes from the word of God.
Global warming, and anthropogenic global warming are two different animals. The world warms and cools naturally, we have little to no discernible affect on it. As far as enlightenment, God has stopped creating, man will continue to for the foreseeable future.
Same here. I believe in the Biblical Creation, but believe that evolution does go on around us as a result of man’s corruption of paradise.
Which came from????? A process that we utilize each and every single day. It produces much of the energy used by plant life, and therefore a significant quantity of the energy used by animal life (humans included).
Oh yeah now I can see how this all accidentally just happened to come together. Happens all the time. Hey by the way, with the exception of the Reeses Peanut Butter Cup, can you tell me the last time something tremendous just happen to come together? I mean with the randomness of atoms that appear from no where, things must be being created (without mans intervention) that are new and astonishing and only a few years old. Name 1?
As for the big bang theory, when we start getting into things like dark matter and dark energy, well...it gets complicated. But because of the nature of the universe we can't see to the big bang (only the background radiation left over from it) or through the big bang, so there's no way of knowing when/how it happened or what existed before.
So you believe in something you can't see, but can't believe in God? OK
A theory is what best fits the facts as currently known. It's not conjecture based on slim evidence (that would be a hypothesis, but I wouldn't use the word conjecture). I'd like to see those numbers if you please. I would argue that the subject is the same, whether you're talking God or a non-theistic view of the creation of the universe. And the last sentence is pure hubris, nothing more.
Oh OK. Give me a fact on the theory of Evolution. The last subject is pure hubris, because you cannot speak authoritatively of it as I can, just like I cannot speak of the love you have for your spouse as you can.
Global warming, and anthropogenic global warming are two different animals. The world warms and cools naturally, we have little to no discernible affect on it. As far as enlightenment, God has stopped creating, man will continue to for the foreseeable future.
I never said anthropogenic global warming and thats not what Scientist are agreeing upon. Its Global Warming and they say its caused by man, with no facts, only theories of what will happen in a computer model in 25 of 50 or 100 years. Water vapor isn't even figured in their "Theory". Scientists cannot even tell you how much condensation is created in 1 year, they just don't know. But its the same people who will tell us that the world is doomed in 25 or so years, yet cannot predict the weather for next Thursday.
This is a rather pointless argument since yours is a faith in man and mine is a faith in God. You'll go your way and I'll go mine from the looks of it. Neither converted, neither convinced. But mine has and will stand the test of time. Yours will crumble away.
From what I interpret from a CNS article posted here 4 months ago, the film's not really about campuses limiting free speech but about campuses not allowing ID to be taught as as science (which DesignOrigin’s FAQs starting with #3 explains why it isn't). But I don't doubt that as an ID activist, Ben Stein frames standards in science working to their disfavor as a freedom of speech issue.
“Why can’t Evolution & Intelligent Design be compatible?”
There’s no reason that they can’t be compatible as long as ID is not promoted as a science.
Maybe you can show me the “rage” part of this article…
Assuming Popular Science promotes science, the relevance of it exposing a much advertised film promoting such a non-scientific assertion as ID as a science is a no-brainer.
Ben is one of the good guys!
That's what I've always thought. That's why it's sickening -- makes me feel literally ill -- to see him directly involved in these lies.
Did you even read the article? Stein, and the producers, lied again and again. Stein effectively lied -- given the natural expectation one has of a documentary film, even one that uses humor -- with that staged lecture, apparently presented as a real one. The producers lied to the interviewees about the name and the intent of the film. Then they lied again after the film was made -- and I've heard Stein himself repeat this lie in interviews -- about the name and intent of the film changing during it's production.
And those three particular lies are not even the beginning of it. The whole "expelled" premise is a lie. The claims, in most if not all cases, of persecution by the antievolution participants -- as documented here in the case of Sternberg, who was never "fired" from anything -- are bogus.
Methinks the writer doth protest to much. Now I KNOW I must see it...
These rabid protesters are going to give the movie millions of dollars worth of publicity - now EVERYone will have to see it...
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