Posted on 05/04/2008 10:31:21 AM PDT by jazusamo
In a breach of the local code of ethics -- and possibly the law -- 32 are killed after straying onto a neighbor's land.
FAIRPLAY, COLO. -- This is not a place where buffalo are welcome to roam.
When 32 bison lumbered across a fence that separated their owners' vast, wind-swept expanse of land from a neighboring ranch in March, they ended up dead.
Some fell where they were shot. Others scattered, galloping for miles before they succumbed in the snow.
They were victims, contend the bison's owners, of a murder plot hatched by the neighbor, a Texan frustrated by what he called the repeated trespassing of the herd onto his land.
Law enforcement officials are closemouthed, saying only that they are investigating.
At issue, said Park County Undersheriff Monte Gore, is whether the culprit violated Colorado's century-old open-range law, which says livestock may go pretty much where they please.
Throughout the West, many states still adhere to the open-range principle, a throwback to the 1800s that says it is not a rancher's responsibility to keep livestock fenced in -- it's everyone else's job to keep them out.
If you don't want someone else's cow on your land, the law goes, build a fence. If the cow crosses your fence, you can lock it up until its owner retrieves it, and you can sue the owner for damages. But you can't kill it, said Rick Wahlert, Colorado brand commissioner.
In Colorado's high country, transplanted city dwellers often don't understand, Wahlert said.
"They ask why should they have to fence their property?" he said. "I say, 'OK, fine. You lived in town. Say you had a swimming pool. Did you let the neighbor kids run through? How did you keep them out? You put up a fence. It's the same concept.' "
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
They are not hunters! Assassins is exactly what they are.
Heard anything about this, George?
These guys sound like they just drove up in their BMW SUVs, rode out on some snow mobiles, and just fired away. Its going to be hard to convince anyone in Colorado that they earned the title of “hunter”. In most states...we’d have little to describe their hunting “skills”....other than not shooting themselves.
If I were one of these guys...I’d find a good lawyer and prepare to pay for the bison and damages. I’d be guessing a total of $200,000 will have to be paid...to make the bison owner happy. This will be an expensive “hunt”.
I’ve been to Fairplay.
Waaay back in the boonies. Not a touristy place, unless things have changed since.
“murder plot” ????
Leave it to the LA Slimes to use the term “murder” when referring to the killing of animals.
Remind me again, how often they have used the term “murder” when referring to the killing of unborn, HUMAN BABIES?
I believe you’re right about it being an expensive “hunt.”
It could well be double that figure or more with fines and restitution with the bison being valued at up to $2500 each.
Hey, where were you in the other animal abuse thread when I was waiting for the “what about the millions of abortions” crowd to show up.
It’s a shame and no matter how this turns out it’s going to be very difficult for the neighbor, as it should be. He definitely isn’t going to fit in after this.
On March 19, the carcasses were found on the Hawn ranch, other private property and nearby federal lands. The sheriff quickly rounded up 14 hunters who were camping on Hawn’s property. They said they had been given permission to shoot the bison, but who gave them that permission is part of the investigation, Gore said.
Agreed, murder is really pushing it, slaughter is more appropraite. Not surprising for the Slimes though.
Sounds like the work of the Texas billionaire that owns Kay Bailey Hutchinson, the one that was hunting(slaughtering) game animals in Russia from a helicopter.
Another sticking point is the fact that the shooters didn’t harvest the meat.
“A hunter won’t shoot it and leave it,” said Armstrong, the owner of the Silverheels. He noted that the deaths of the bison — valued at up to $2,500 each — represent the loss of several generations in the herd.
“They’re assassins, not hunters,” Agosti said. “You go out to a field and walk up and shoot it: That’s hunting? Come on. I hunt elk and deer. If I don’t consume it, I won’t shoot it. To let it rot . . . there’s no honor.”
Sounds like a "Carpet-Bagger" Texan acting like a "Carpet-Bagger" Californian.
As I understand it, bison are often raised for meat nowadays. At what point do they stop being "wild animals" and become livestock under the law?
If they were wild animals, wouldn't the "hunters" need licenses to kill them?
In most states, even if you have a license, failing to use the meat of an animal you kill is an offense.
Real tough guys huh?
Your statements of fact are right on . Your questions lead to more questions , probably answered in the state code .
First, I am NOT defending this guy’s actions. He violated a law in umpteen western states, and a felony charge can be brought in most all western states for what he has done.
That said, people who have never been around bison need to understand that they’re not simply “bigger cows.” Bison are not cows - not even remotely. Bison are a force of nature. Individually, they’re like a tornado. In a herd, they’re like a hurricane.
I’ve seen bison push their way through Powder River gates (a brand of very high quality steel panels, gates, cattle handling equipment, etc). I don’t mean that they ran into them and knocked the gate over. I’m talking that the bison walked up to the locked gate, put his head down and pushed his way through. The bars on the gate simply spread like bars of butter and he simply pushed through.
Why did he do this? He wasn’t mean. He simply wanted to be on the other side. Calm as a sunday school teacher.
On the other side, he proceeded to push over small (6” diameter” pine trees as he used them as back scratchers. Bison are simply destructive. You’ve heard the old saying about “bull in a china shop?”
Bulls are pussycats next to bison. And the whole world is a china shop for bison.
They’re not cattle. A “legal” fence, per the code in western states, won’t hold bison. In Jiggs, NV there used to be a smaller ranch where someone was running bison. They used 4” gas field casing pipe (3/8” wall steel pipe, 4” diameter) sunk 10’ into the ground, and then they mounted galvanized steel guardrail on these pipes. The fence was six feet high.
That held them.
These two have been fighting for a while. A long time local rancher following the ranching practices set since the 1800’s versus a city slicker with no common sense ?
These types of problems are exploding because city slickers with lots of money ( think Ted Turner ) are buying up working ranches, then get mad that they are next to other working ranches.
You need a very massive and tall steel fence for buffalo and elk; Buffalo will easily walk thru three wires and some posts.
The city slicker hired some ‘hunters’ to kill the buffalo that tresspassed. Apparently, some of the buffalo were killed on federal land.
The sherriff has been very quiet so far.
Others may know some more.
This is just the latest :
Longtime Colorado rancher Monte Downare filed the lawsuit in Park County District Court Tuesday against Austin, Texas, businessman Jeff Hawn ...
Throughout the West, many states still adhere to the open-range principle, a throwback to the 1800s that says it is not a rancher’s responsibility to keep livestock fenced in — it’s everyone else’s job to keep them out.
If you don’t want someone else’s cow on your land, the law goes, build a fence. If the cow crosses your fence, you can lock it up until its owner retrieves it, and you can sue the owner for damages.
But you can not kill it.
In Colorado’s high country, transplanted city dwellers tend to have trouble understanding the idea...
In the mountain valley at 10,000 feet known as South Park ... ranchers are doing a slow boil over what they consider a terrible breach of the local code of ethics demanding that neighbors help each other out.
“You work together,” said Timm Armstrong, who runs a herd of longhorn cattle, as well as a truck stop at the edge of town.
By most accounts, Monte and Vaughn Downare and Jeff Hawn didn’t have that kind of relationship. The Downares have lived and ranched here a long time, according to locals; Hawn, who lives in Austin, Texas, bought his 362-acre Colorado ranch in 1995.
When he arrived, Hawn built a fence to keep out intruding livestock, according to a lawsuit he has filed against the Downares.
Colorado law spells out what constitutes such a fence: three strands of barbed wire, with posts set 20 feet apart, “sufficient to turn away ordinary horses and cattle.”
This spring, the Downares contend in their counterclaim, Hawn and his Denver lawyer, Stephen Csajaghy, “conspired to hire” hunters to shoot the animals.
On March 19, the carcasses were found on the Hawn ranch, other private property and nearby federal lands. The sheriff quickly rounded up 14 hunters who were camping on Hawn’s property. They said they had been given permission to shoot the bison, but who gave them that permission is part of the investigation, Gore said.
Throughout Park County, where a stray cow or wandering bison is hardly an oddity, people fumed.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004391154_bison04.html?syndication=rss
In western states, “livestock” is a legal term. You can find the definition in the state codes. In Colorado, I see the term defined in CRS Title 35 is the ag title, and therein livestock is defined. It doesn’t include bison.
In most western states, “livestock” is taken to means cattle and sheep, possibly horses.
“These bison are not livestock , they are wild animals “
Could have fooled me. I’ve seen plenty of bison being raised for commercial purposes behind fences. They make an excellent burger, as well.
It was revealed in court documents in the civil lawsuit that 24 of the 32 dead bison were not on Watersedge Properties LLC-controlled land, although it is unclear what property the animals had been located on.
The Park County Sheriff’s Office has said the animals were discovered over hundreds of acres on different properties.
The Downares are seeking unspecified damages for “such outrageous conduct.”
Hawn’s attorney, Denver-based Stephen Csajaghy, is listed as a third-party defendant in the case.
http://www.theflume.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=5140&TM=52336.82
Thanks, it sounds like they’ve been feuding for a while.
The jerk in Texas sounds like he doesn’t give a hoot about the whole thing and if it costs him a few bucks, so be it, he can afford it.
Might be wrong but it also sounds like the Sheriff doesn’t want any part of it.
Thanks, it sounds like they’ve been feuding for a while.
The jerk in Texas sounds like he doesn’t give a hoot about the whole thing and if it costs him a few bucks, so be it, he can afford it.
Might be wrong but it also sounds like the Sheriff doesn’t want any part of it.
The Silverheels at mid-afternoon has become the town gathering spot, a place where the police chief and county undersheriff sit over coffee swapping police tales, occasionally sharing information on the slaughter with the locals.
It is, too, a place that is rife with rumor and half-truths, of tales that the shooters dropped piles of corn or other foodstuffs to lure the bison off the Downare ranch and into the killing zone, of one of the shooters racing into the herd on a snowmobile to make the animals run and make the kill at least a bit more sporting.
“You know the worst thing about it?” said Timm Anderson, his eyes almost misty. “Almost every one of those cows they killed — I heard 29 of them — were about to calve. Those men wiped out an entire herd! Unforgivable is what it is.”
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/28/south-parks-astir-over-bison-slaughter/
The county I live in gets lots of city slickers that move in, usually for only a short period of time. They are a constant nuisance to the sherrifs department due to the numerous complaints. The county government printed up a “County Primer” for new residents explaining the realities of living in a rural Colorado environment. The most amusing thing I saw in the primer was the statement “do not call us if a coyote eats your cat”.
I think the bison shooters are in big trouble.
Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener is well known in Colorado.
Wegener said that the bison were shot on the Hawn Ranch, other private property and Bureau of Land Management and U.S. Forest Service lands.
He said investigators from four agencies are currently involved in the probe: the sheriff’s department, the state brand inspector, the state veterinarian and the district attorney for the 11th Judicial District.
Aggravated cruelty to animals is a Class 6 felony and is being looked at because of the way the carcasses were abandoned, said the sheriff.
A group of 10 hunters — who Wegener said probably would be better described as “shooters” — killed the bison over a period of perhaps several days, the sheriff said. He said the camp of the hunters has been located.
Rick Wahlert, brand commissioner for Colorado, said the inspector assigned to the South Park area is helping the Park County Sheriff’s Office in the investigation.
Wahlert said that neither the ranchers who sanction hunts of their bison herds nor the hunters need permits because the hunts don’t fall under the jurisdiction of the Division of Wildlife or the Department of Agriculture, under which the brand inspection division works.
http://www.fishingbuddy.com/forums/topic.php?fid=669755&tid=29700
high-tech exec Jeff Hawn is from Austin
The article refers to the animal’s having an owner. They were livestock not wild bison.
That piece says the bison’s carcasses were spread out over hundreds of acres and makes it sound like a lot of space. In reality it may not be, there’s 640 acres in a square mile and I’m sure a wounded bison could run a fair piece before dying.
The article refers to the animal’s having an owner. They were livestock not wild bison.
bookmark
I guess that clears up my problems with the neighbors about my mountain lions . They have an owner , thus are clearly pet cats . No leash law for cats .
March 28, 2008
Of Jeff Hawn, no one ever remembers seeing him in town.
Today, they all say, he would not be welcome.
It violated the only true code they live by up here, they said. A man’s livestock is his treasure, to be safeguarded almost as closely as his own offspring.
“We want to know what they are going to do with these men because it is a big topic in this town. Even the kids are talking about it.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/28/south-parks-astir-over-bison-slaughter/
I’m having all kinds of problems with the comments, they don’t register and I have to keep refreshing. Don’t know if it’s FR or me.
I'm in the 11th Judicial District.I would look forward to being a juror in a trial.
Actually you neighbor is most likely required to carry a permit from the State Game or Fish and Wildlife Department in order to own the mountain lions. They may under law be defined as exotic pets or whatever term the legislature has decided to call them.
And if the Mountain lion was to trespass on your property and your State law said you were responsible for keeping it out, then yes your neighbor would have a right to bring you to court should you decide to shoot her Mountain Lion just because it was on your property.
But something tells me that State law does not require you to keep your neighbors exotic pets off of your property and most likely has rather stringent requirements about how your neighbor is suppose to secure her Mountain Lion. I will if future time permits explain the difference between a predator and prey but surely you can rustle up some Wild Kingdom reruns.
Livestock is an animal that is raised for fur, food, hide or other such goods. Ostrich, Emus, Bison, Llamas are some of the non traditional animals now being raised as stock. If the species is not specifically mentioned in Statutes most law has a provision to either go by common law definition or that old fall back the dictionary.
And if your neighbor’s Mountain Lion decides to take a tour of your property- be all means shoot first and ask questions later. I can assure you the cat is not a domestic pet even if your neighbor has allusions to the contrary. It is still a wild animal.
I don’t usually read animal abuse threads, but this took place very near my brother’s cabin.
“When he arrived, Hawn built a fence to keep out intruding livestock, according to a lawsuit he has filed against the Downares.”
Wonder if Hawn is one of those “environmentalists” opposed to grazing on nearby federal lands?
I agree with you two, these aren’t hunters, not even in the same class as any hunters I know.
Some of the dead bison were found on federal land huh? These idiots are going to face some hefty fines for that I’d bet. Even though this is privately owned livestock, there’s laws governing hunting, killing animals on federal property.
In Colorado you can’t just shoot an animal on your property, even mountain lions and bears, even if they are attacking your pet. I think a justified shooting requires defense of attack against a person or protection of livestock. This excludes the legal hunting seasons in areas open to hunting.
I seriously doubt these bison were attacking the shooters.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
—thanks for the ping—
I suspect it did only because the bison decided not to go through it. There is a big ranch in WY along Hwy 58. It is fenced, but the rancher also feeds his herd. The fence would be a slight inconvenience should a bison decide to cross.
And also BTW, george76, there might be a need in a Dept. to have at least some personnel to review and practice interviews and interrogations (techniques, differences between the two, etc.).
This is vital for reestablishing the natural prairie grasses that, in turn, keep the top soil for being blown off - like in the “Dust Bowl” fiasco.
Yes, they can build bison tough fences - but certainly not enough to contain a herd of buffalo that roams hundreds of acres - especially if they are going to keep the grasses growing.
That being said - I wonder if a couple good sheep/cow dogs couldn't discourage the big fellas from grazing on the neighbors land? Or, the carpet bagger could always go back to the city...
He reminds me of the city ‘flatlanders’ that move to Maine, build a fancy house next to a dairy farm and then sue the farmer because “it smells” = libRAt idiots
This is vital for reestablishing the natural prairie grasses that, in turn, keep the top soil for being blown off - like in the “Dust Bowl” fiasco.
Yes, they can build bison tough fences - but certainly not enough to contain a herd of buffalo that roams hundreds of acres - especially if they are going to keep the grasses growing.
That being said - I wonder if a couple good sheep/cow dogs couldn't discourage the big fellas from grazing on the neighbors land? Or, the carpet bagger could always go back to the city...
He reminds me of the city ‘flatlanders’ that move to Maine, build a fancy house next to a dairy farm and then sue the farmer because “it smells” = libRAt idiots
Totally innocuous analogy - and I suspect you know it - but perhaps think we're to dumb to know it...
I'll see your mountain lion and raise you one giraffe
I love this one! Make a great bumper sticker...
(couldn't reply to poster on this as something screwy is going on with the FR system - had to go back to one of my own posts to reconnect)
In Maine, we need to give new coming flatlanders an advice sheet that includes, "...if you buy and build next door to a dairy farm, do not call us if it stinks."
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