Posted on 08/24/2008 10:29:14 AM PDT by Progresso
On Meet the Press this morning... MR. BROKAW: Senator Obama saying the question of when life begins is above his pay grade, whether you're looking at it scientifically or theologically. If he were to come to you and say, "Help me out here, Madame Speaker. When does life begin?" what would you tell him?
REP. PELOSI: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator--St. Augustine said at three months. We don't know. The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child--first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There's very clear distinctions. This isn't about abortion on demand, it's about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and--to--that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god. And so I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins. As I say, the Catholic Church for centuries has been discussing this, and there are those who've decided...
MR. BROKAW: There was a very well publicized and very effective interview by Pastor Rick Warren at the Saddleback Church in California of the two candidates recently. And on the right especially, response from Senator Obama to the question of when life begins has been getting a lot of attention. We want to just share with you how that went, and then you can take a look at it and, and respond to it for us.
(Videotape, August 16, 2008)
PASTOR RICK WARREN: At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?
SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is, is above my pay grade.
(End videotape)
MR. BROKAW: Senator Obama saying the question of when life begins is above his pay grade, whether you're looking at it scientifically or theologically. If he were to come to you and say, "Help me out here, Madame Speaker. When does life begin?" what would you tell him?
REP. PELOSI: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator--St. Augustine said at three months. We don't know. The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child--first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There's very clear distinctions. This isn't about abortion on demand, it's about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and--to--that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god. And so I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins. As I say, the Catholic Church for centuries has been discussing this, and there are those who've decided...
MR. BROKAW: The Catholic Church at the moment feels very strongly that it...
REP. PELOSI: I understand that.
MR. BROKAW: ...begins at the point of conception.
REP. PELOSI: I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy. But it is, it is also true that God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions. And we want abortions to be safe, rare, and reduce the number of abortions. That's why we have this fight in Congress over contraception. My Republican colleagues do not support contraception. If you want to reduce the number of abortions, and we all do, we must--it would behoove you to support family planning and, and contraception, you would think. But that is not the case. So we have to take--you know, we have to handle this as respectfully--this is sacred ground. We have to handle it very respectfully and not politicize it, as it has been--and I'm not saying Rick Warren did, because I don't think he did, but others will try to.
MR. BROKAW: Madame Speaker, thanks very much for being with us.
REP. PELOSI: It's my pleasure. Thank you.
She subjugates everything as a variable with Roe as the one constant in the equation.
She subjugates everything as a variable with Roe as the one constant in the equation.
In other words, a woman should be able to kill her unborn child anytime from the moment of conception up to and including ..... when? Her own, personal arbitrary line of "when life begins."
How dare this POS go on national television (again) spewing her Catholic grandma routine. And damn the bishops for sitting on their hands while she does it.
Heheehe:)
I’m surprised she didn’t say life begins a 40.
or your first face lift which ever comes first.
The Catholic Church’s position is very clear on people like Pelosi and Biden:
“Rome, Aug 19, 2008 / (CNA) — Archbishop Raymond Burke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, the highest judicial authority of the Holy See, said this week that Catholics who publicly support abortion — especially politicians — should not receive Communion, and that ministers of Communion should be responsibly charitable in denying it to them if they ask for it “until they have reformed their lives.”
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish. (Didache 2:2) Didache – also called: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles c. 60-100 A.D.
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes. http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.htm#2271
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.
” From the moment of conception, the life of every human being is to be respected in an absolute way because man is the only creature on earth that God has “wished for himself” and the spiritual soul of each man is “immediately created” by God; his whole being bears the image of the Creator. Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains forever in a special relationship with the Creator, Who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being”
—The Gift of Life (Donum Vitae) No. 5 of introduction. Published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, February 22, 1987. http://www.usccb.org/prolife/tdocs/donumvitae.htm
Pope John Paul II, The Gospel of Life, 1995 - section 73 (excerpt): Abortion and euthanasia are crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to “take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it”.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html
Pope Pius XI Encyclical Casti Connubii No. 67 December 31, 1930 (excerpt): “Those who hold the reins of government should not forget that it is the duty of public authority ... to defend the lives of the innocent ... among whom we must mention in the first place infants hidden in the mother’s womb. And if the public magistrates ... do not defend them, but by their laws and ordinances betray them to death at the hands of doctors and others, let them remember that God is the Judge and Avenger of innocent blood which cries from earth to heaven”
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html
Congratulations on your post and RCIA
To further your studies, I invite you to review and use “A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum” Available FREE at http://www.CpForLife.org
It's only in the last few centuries that scientific investigations have revealed how human conception and early embryonic development occur. In the days of St. Hildegard of Bingen, IIRC, the leading scientists thought that the father's semen caused the blood in the mother's womb to "curdle," and that the "curd" thus formed increased in size as more "curds" stuck to it, until after a period of time it was "animated" and became a living human embryo.
Anton van Leeuwenhoek proposed that fertilization occurs when the sperm enters the egg, but this could not actually be observed for another 100 years because of the quality of microscopes which were available.
The church has always rightly taught that every living human being, even prenatally, has a soul, and the sanctity of his or her life must be recognized. This is the doctrinal point, which has been constant.
But prior to being able to see the actual fertilization of an ovum by a sperm cell --- I think this was first observed in the mid-19th Century --- people were necessarily unsure about when or how that life began. This is the scientific point, about which there were various opinions until the observation of fertilization, and later, the discovery of DNA.
By the way, the church taught even in the very earliest times that abortion is murder. In the Didache (The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) — the first manual of doctrine, liturgical laws and morals written somewhere between the the years of 50 and 80 AD — we find the moral prohibition, "You shall not kill by abortion the fruit of the womb and you shall not murder the infant already born."
The Church forbade the destruction of the "fruit of the womb" even if the embryo was not "formed" and was still being made from (as they supposed) the blood of the mother:
"For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in womb, while yet the Mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy." - Tertullian, 197 AD, Apologeticus. That's about as clear as it could possibly be. And I am double dang sure and morally certain that Augustine agreed.
She really needs to be excommunicated form the Catholic Church, along with Biden and other Cahtolic politicians like them.
Their beleifs, so antithetical to the Catholic Church, are confusing. And they don’t hesitate to use their faith, to gain support and votes from Catholics. It would be better to make it clear they deliberatley do not practice or believe their faith and are no longer Catholic.
Excellent information......... BUMP
Agreed. They have no interest in truth, whether it’s science, history, economics, etc.
Pelosi really stepped into it when she misrepresented the Catholic church.
The importance of her reply lies in her assertion that it doesn’t matter anyway. The woman’s “right” to choose is paramount, whether a human life is ended or not. Human get rights when the leftist elite say so, and not a moment earlier. Thus can the left also decertify a human at any point.
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