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Observation. "Republicans stay home". Does that mean that McCain cost us other seats?
Marston Chronicles ^ | 11/07/08 | Locutus of Borg

Posted on 11/07/2008 10:03:56 PM PST by prismsinc

This is interesting analysis by Marston. Does this mean that McCain cost us seats in the House and Senate? I have to admit, when McCain was elected in the primaries, my first inclination was "we lost already". Did any of you think the same thing back then?

McCain's repulsion in the base kept potential voters home for other seats, it seems.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: mccain; palin; voterturnout
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1 posted on 11/07/2008 10:03:56 PM PST by prismsinc
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To: prismsinc

I think the thesis was fiscally conservative, social moderates stayed home. They were put off by sarah because of their social views. And they were pissed off at McCain for supporting the bailout and supporting an even more aggressive bailout for homeowners.

TO them, both candidates were the same and they stayed home.

Its hilarious. Usually RINO’s are called rino’s because they are not socially conservative but fiscal conservatives. He spent so much time reassuring his socially conservative base, he failed to realize how unpopular he was with fiscal conservatives.

Evangelicals turned out for McCain (26% of electorate versus 24% in 2004 with similar level of support for McCain), but fiscal conservatives did not.


2 posted on 11/07/2008 10:07:36 PM PST by DiogenesLaertius
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To: prismsinc

IF not for the addition of PALIN to the Ticket, I was Ready to stay home. The Republican who ran against my CongressIDIOT got I think, my vote and maybe 8 others.


3 posted on 11/07/2008 10:09:21 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (HITLER offered Hope and Change!!)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: prismsinc
If we're going to pull ourselves out of the hole we're in, we have to start taking responsibility, not just blaming others.

If we stayed home, WE are to blame. McCain being an uninspiring candidate doesn't excuse lazy Republicans from going to the polls to vote the whole ballot.

5 posted on 11/07/2008 10:11:49 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (1-22-13)
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To: prismsinc

No, Republicans cost themselves seats.
McCain is responsible for his own loss, but not down ticket races.
If they haven’t legislated in a way to inspire voters to come out and support them, then they own their own defeat.


6 posted on 11/07/2008 10:13:07 PM PST by counterpunch ( Mike Pence for House Minority Leader. Now!)
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To: DiogenesLaertius

You are correct.


7 posted on 11/07/2008 10:13:16 PM PST by thesetruths
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To: DiogenesLaertius
What is the poll question that is asked to determine if one is ‘social’ conservative or ‘fiscal’ conservative?

Is this just another way of saying ‘pro-life’ versus ‘pro-abortion?

I am not joking either as I do not understand how anyone thinks that a social liberal can be fiscally conservative... people play somebody has to pay!

8 posted on 11/07/2008 10:15:52 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: prismsinc

I think we have learned that we can not be a party of the fiscally conservative but socially moderate. We need to be one or the other. Seeing that social liberalism is an import from outside our party, and has never been a part of the platform, I say they go. We may lose in two years, but a party divided can not stand.


9 posted on 11/07/2008 10:18:12 PM PST by Blogger
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To: prismsinc
I still don't buy that all of it was because repubs stayed home. There is essentially the same number of voters in 2008 as in 2004.

The youth vote didn't turn out in too much greater percentage than 2004.

No way RATS picked up 6 million new voters while repubs lost 5 million.

Either Rats voted for Bush and crossed back over to Obama or Repubs crossed over to Obama.

Everything I'm seeing & hearing says the latter.

I can't wait for the "experts" final sort-it-out analysis.

10 posted on 11/07/2008 10:20:45 PM PST by stylin19a ( Real Men don't declare unplayable lies)
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To: Blogger

That’s silly. We are a party of conservatives and must welcome all conservatives to the tent if we are to be the big-tent majority party.

Most socially moderate people don’t care if other people are socially conservative if they leave them alone. Reagan was a social conservative but he couched his social conservatism in terms of federalism and strict originalist judges.

The republican party did fine with socially moderate, fiscal conservatives before terry schiavo. That was just a disaster for congress.

Remember, Reagan was all 3 legs of social conservatism (foreign policy, social, and fiscal), but his tent of voters and cabinet members included a mix of the legs.

If you want us to be “pure” go join the constituionalist party that just killed our senate seat in oregon and see how far that gets you when liberals with a 0 ACU rating beats a conservative with a 70 lifetime ACU rating.


11 posted on 11/07/2008 10:22:39 PM PST by DiogenesLaertius
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Just mythoughts
I am not joking either as I do not understand how anyone thinks that a social liberal can be fiscally conservative

Many libertarians are.

Another example - I think the Federal government should be small, rigidly held within its Constitutional restraints, a drastically reduced and balanced budget and debt free (fat chance, I know). I feel that the Federal government shouldn't be wasting money on a Dept of Education, or Welfare/Human Services or any liberal dream waste. Hence, a fiscal conservative.

However, I think that the Federal government should also stay out of regulating personal lives, beliefs, sexuality. I feel that social conservatives who attempt to use government entities and legislation to enforce their morality on others are just as in the wrong when liberals do so. Hence, this often aligns me with the social 'liberals'.

14 posted on 11/07/2008 10:29:19 PM PST by Ophiucus
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To: DiogenesLaertius

We just had a moderate everything Presidential nominee. The moderates are trashing the one conservative on the ticket. We need to clean up the party, and the social and fiscal conservatives were here first. Social moderates should go third party.


15 posted on 11/07/2008 10:30:24 PM PST by Blogger
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To: prismsinc

He cost us seats ‘cause the guy conceded WAY too early. All the states hadn’t even voted yet, and Oregon was a state with the senate race up in the air.


16 posted on 11/07/2008 10:30:34 PM PST by madison10 (Pray for the U.S.A. and her future.)
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To: Ophiucus

Don’t you see that the moral health of a nation affects the fiscal health?


17 posted on 11/07/2008 10:32:47 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: DiogenesLaertius

Sorry, but any negative about this election laid on Sarah is absurd. Without her it would have been an Obama landslide.

MM


18 posted on 11/07/2008 10:33:08 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: prismsinc
I think the poster was using the word "you" with its "any person", "indefinite one" meaning.

For example one might say to a person, "you can never be sure", and not really be referring to the person they are speaking to.

19 posted on 11/07/2008 10:34:53 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: prismsinc

Butt-nugget, I wasn’t talking to you. Note the conditional in the very first clause.


20 posted on 11/07/2008 10:35:29 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: prismsinc

Note that the other person to post to my post pot my point while you dodged it.


21 posted on 11/07/2008 10:36:54 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: DiogenesLaertius
You're confusing me. You complain about some conservatives being "pure" yet you excuse moderates for not voting because of Palin.

IMO there was no excuse to stay home and not vote just because either McCain or Palin wasn't one's ideal version of a Republican. It's childish, foolish, and in the end dangerous to hand victory to a Marxist.

Moderates don't get a pass any more than single-issue conservatives for being babies and letting the country rot because they don't get their way on everything.
22 posted on 11/07/2008 10:37:58 PM PST by over3Owithabrain
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To: prismsinc

IF anyone stayed home in either the primaries or general election, they have themselves to blame. They sure didn’t get out to support anyone besides McCain. If you couldn’t even elect a more conservative candidate within the party how can you expect anything better in the general election.


23 posted on 11/07/2008 10:42:16 PM PST by Williams (It's The Policies, Stupid.)
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To: krb

Can we stop harping on this now? Part of my observation was to help get at the root causes of the loss, namely, electing McCain.

As another pointed out, prune juice conceeded early. He’s always been an inconsiderate jerk. He throws a wrench in it if he doesn’t get what he wants. He despises conservatives. Look at how he’s treating Palin now. I for one am glad now that he lost. We wouldn’t have gotten support from him at all. He would’ve treated Sarah like a puppet if he’d won.


24 posted on 11/07/2008 10:43:53 PM PST by prismsinc (AIP works for ME!!!!)
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To: beaversmom
I don't quite agree with that but the moral health is not the purview of the government but of the private sector. A government committee is no way qualified to determine what is moral for a free individual.

That being said, a free republic requires a just and moral populace to survive. Our founders were unanimous in that view. One cannot legislate morality and to attempt so only limits freedom and personal responsibility.

Morality must reside within the individual. Any government that attempts to fetter the individual with laws of morality casts off the virtues of a republic and dons the cap of a despot. Thus, furthering the demise of the republic.

25 posted on 11/07/2008 10:44:40 PM PST by Ophiucus
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To: over3Owithabrain

First off, what I said was not mutually exclusive.

Palin’s rollout was horrendous and in the end, she did end up having higher unfavorables than favorables in the general. The base loved her but she did herself no favors with the Couric and Gibson interviews. I am not saying she hurt McCain in general. She certainly enthused the base and helped fundraising, but it did turn off independents and democrats.


26 posted on 11/07/2008 10:45:38 PM PST by DiogenesLaertius
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To: prismsinc

NO! I pulled up my bootstraps and fought for my country... not some selfish dream that wasn’t going to happen this year, half a loaf was better than no loaf at all, which is what we have now and, franky, after 2006 I have no patience for the selfish people who stayed home.


27 posted on 11/07/2008 10:48:46 PM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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To: prismsinc
Can we stop harping on this now? Part of my observation was to help get at the root causes of the loss, namely, electing McCain.

Nope. I guess as long as you are happy to draw blood about the nomination of McCain you are going to have to wait.

You are harping just as much as anyone else. As long as you continue with the "prune juice" crap...well....nevermind. You will aggressively miss my point, so it doesn't matter.

28 posted on 11/07/2008 10:49:11 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: DiogenesLaertius

Take you negative comments about Palin and put them somewhere else.


29 posted on 11/07/2008 10:51:16 PM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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To: DiogenesLaertius
but it did turn off independents and Democrats Oh my God. If I read this one more time my head will explode. READ THE HEADING! WE DONT NEED THEM TO WIN! Don't you get it? Stop the "reach across the aisle" mentality, PLEASE! We're going to get our butts handed to us the next go around if we keep this up.
30 posted on 11/07/2008 10:53:37 PM PST by prismsinc (AIP works for ME!!!!)
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To: DiogenesLaertius

It was McCain’s job to bring in the indies and Dems. Weren’t we told that’s why he was the one guy who could beat Obama? He himself picked Palin becuase he needed to shore the base. The rest was his job and he failed miserably. As for Palin, she was unfairly and mercilessly attacked by a lying corrupt media 24/7 and no one could have withstood that without some loss of popularity.


31 posted on 11/07/2008 10:54:38 PM PST by over3Owithabrain
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To: prismsinc

I felt that way at first. Then I looked at the other side, said damn can’t let that commie in the white house. So I stepped up to the plate, held my nose and voted for McCain.

It did actualy help a bit having palin as #2, otherwise that voting would have been tougher.


32 posted on 11/07/2008 10:55:19 PM PST by television is just wrong (obama is going to pay my mortgage for me!)
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To: Ophiucus
Many libertarians are.

The most I get that libertarians want is to freely smoke dope.

Another example - I think the Federal government should be small, rigidly held within its Constitutional restraints, a drastically reduced and balanced budget and debt free (fat chance, I know). I feel that the Federal government shouldn't be wasting money on a Dept of Education, or Welfare/Human Services or any liberal dream waste. Hence, a fiscal conservative.

I do not disagree, but once you have people hooked how do you teach them another way.

However, I think that the Federal government should also stay out of regulating personal lives, beliefs, sexuality. I feel that social conservatives who attempt to use government entities and legislation to enforce their morality on others are just as in the wrong when liberals do so. Hence, this often aligns me with the social 'liberals'.

Social liberals have no problem regulating personal lives they just do not admit it. Taxation is done to punish, certainly not to increase wealth. Government owns the airwaves and leases them out and the government claims control over what gets sent out over them. So government has become the advocate of 'sexuality' and social liberals do not seem to mind the act of taxation to care for the consequences of a sex driven society.

33 posted on 11/07/2008 10:56:46 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: prismsinc

Look, we can deal with reality or we can just make up facts.

From exit polling alone, we saw Palin had higher net negatives. I personally do not think of her as a negative and in fact am quite enamored of her reagan-like qualities.

But the general public’s opinion of her is lower than ours and we need to learn how to deal with that.

Republicans need to be able to stand up to scrutiny apparently because our media is so corrupt and biased.


34 posted on 11/07/2008 10:58:31 PM PST by DiogenesLaertius
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To: DiogenesLaertius

It seems they didn’t much care for this country, did they? Or were they determined to rid us of these rino republicans once and for all. I hope the Republicans that are left...will keep there selves out of sight...when this country really starts it’s economic collapse...there will be NO one to blame but the DONKEYS.


35 posted on 11/07/2008 10:58:57 PM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: beaversmom

Right on.

We cannot abandon the unborn and expect any blessing. Ever.

It is ghoulish to use unborn babies as a political bargaining chip.

The right to life is non-negotiable.


36 posted on 11/07/2008 10:59:38 PM PST by thesetruths
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To: television is just wrong

Unfortunately, that strategy doesn’t work. Remember Rick Lazio? He had outsiders donate to him. He spent his entire campaign on whitewater. Where’s Lazio now?


37 posted on 11/07/2008 11:00:21 PM PST by prismsinc (AIP works for ME!!!!)
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To: DiogenesLaertius
Palin had higher net negatives

What? What planet are you on? SHE HAD A 91% APPROVAL RATING AMONGST REPUBLICANS? Get the bong out of your mouth.
38 posted on 11/07/2008 11:04:57 PM PST by prismsinc (AIP works for ME!!!!)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: prismsinc
The GOP was warned years ago about nominating McCain for President. They underestimated just how many enemies McCain had made for himself amongst grass-roots Republicans, conservatives, and his own constituents.

A few examples:

Maricopa County Republicans Condemn McCain for Straying from the GOP Reservation

Arizona Republican Party rejects John McCain

McCain's Republican Enemies in His Home State

John McCain, you treasonous bastard, I challenge you or any of your traitorous cohorts... (Free Republic)

Recall John McCain (an effort started on Free Republic)

I swore that I would never EVER vote for John McCain. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done to cast a vote for him in this election. I overcame the anger caused by nearly 2 decades of John McCain's abuse of conservatives, grass-roots Republicans, and the Constitution itself to cast my vote against Obama. I'm absolutely certain that there are a great many people who were unable to overcome that and could not force themselves to cast a vote for John McCain. And THAT is why he lost.

As I said when it was certain that McCain was going to get the nomination, the Democrat candidate was elected at that moment. The GOP literally chose Obama (or Hillary if she had won the primary) when they nominated McCain. Idiots...

My first real run in with McCain was when he endorsed Clinton's marxist nominee for CIA Director, Anthony Lake. McCain went out of his way to push Lake through the approval process, wrote published op-eds in national publications, sent letters to every Senator endorsing Lake, and even went so far to be the Senator that introduced Lake to the Intelligence Committee. It just so happens that Anthony Lake is now Obama's top national security advisor. How's that for where McCain's loyalties really lie? The GOP really screwed this up and the United States of America is going to pay for it indefinitely. Way to go, GOP. They don't call you the stupid party for nothing. I wish I could get my nearly 2 decades of Republican Party activism and support back. What a complete waste of my time...

40 posted on 11/07/2008 11:07:18 PM PST by Spiff
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To: Just mythoughts
The most I get that libertarians want is to freely smoke dope.

Just the fringe. Many of the founders would have been considered libertarians. Libertarian ideals are expressed in the Declaration of Independence, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, and Barry Goldwater's Conscience of a Conservative.

The modern libertarian party also has serious problems when it comes to foreign policy.

I do not disagree, but once you have people hooked how do you teach them another way.

Good question. Maybe cold turkey like other addicts....

Social liberals have no problem regulating personal lives they just do not admit it. Taxation is done to punish, certainly not to increase wealth. Government owns the airwaves and leases them out and the government claims control over what gets sent out over them. So government has become the advocate of 'sexuality' and social liberals do not seem to mind the act of taxation to care for the consequences of a sex driven society.

Absolutely. Government has no business doing any of these things. Nor should it have the power of the non- or un- apportioned tax, aka income tax. But that's a discussion for another thread like one on Fair Tax.

41 posted on 11/07/2008 11:10:06 PM PST by Ophiucus
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To: Ophiucus

But stealing is immoral. Murder is immoral. Lying (breaking of contracts) is immoral. We must have laws against these things, or we will have anarchy.


42 posted on 11/07/2008 11:11:27 PM PST by Marie2 (Everything the left does has the effect and intent of destroying the traditional family.)
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To: Spiff

That’s the most educational post I’ve ever read. Thank you for enlightening me further.


43 posted on 11/07/2008 11:12:44 PM PST by prismsinc (AIP works for ME!!!!)
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To: prismsinc; DiogenesLaertius
"but it did turn off independents and Democrats" ..... Oh my God. If I read this one more time my head will explode. READ THE HEADING! WE DONT NEED THEM TO WIN! Don't you get it? Stop the "reach across the aisle" mentality, PLEASE! We're going to get our butts handed to us the next go around if we keep this up. ..... prismsinc

Palin had higher net negatives ..... DiogenesLaertius

What? What planet are you on? SHE HAD A 91% APPROVAL RATING AMONGST REPUBLICANS? Get the bong out of your mouth. ..... prismsinc

General Presidential elections are not Free Republic polls where only the members of the conservative choir are allowed to vote.

You could get 100% of the Republican vote in the general Presidential election and still get trounced 73% to 27%.

Pew Research Center: Fewer Voters Identify as Republicans


44 posted on 11/07/2008 11:30:22 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Marie2
But stealing is immoral. Murder is immoral. Lying (breaking of contracts) is immoral. We must have laws against these things, or we will have anarchy.

A canard. Stealing, murder, and breaking of contracts without just process infringe on another's rights. These are not laws for morality per se but of protection from infringement of one individual on another.

A law requiring a car to stop at a red light prevents one individual from colliding into another, an infringement. However, a law requiring the use of a seat-belt does not prevent an infringement of one individual on another. It is an overextension of government forcing a private choice on the individual 'for his own good.' A driving moral requirement that is not the purview of a limited government. The individual must be able to make the wise choice of safeguarding himself, a personal moral decision.

45 posted on 11/07/2008 11:31:56 PM PST by Ophiucus
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To: krb

Somebody mentioned the rainy weather we’d have on the east coast election day, exhorting everyone to go vote anyway.

I replied that ‘rains of fire, blood and frogs could not keep me home.’

Little did I know that I would be adding “the sudden death of a beloved dog that very morning” to the list.

I looked and felt like absolute hell from crying but I went any way because the _future of my country_ was at stake.

A pox upon the “perfect” who did not find their “ideal” in McCain and did not vote because of “purist principles”.

They directly contributed to our upcoming USSA.


46 posted on 11/08/2008 12:09:20 AM PST by Salamander (Welcome to Obamageddon! The best apocalypse foreign money can buy!)
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To: stylin19a

Could be just the ACORN factor.

[I consider this a coup via voter fraud; nothing more, nothing less]


47 posted on 11/08/2008 12:11:09 AM PST by Salamander (Welcome to Obamageddon! The best apocalypse foreign money can buy!)
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To: prismsinc; All

What I don’t understand about conservatives not voting because of McCain, that means they essentially voted for Obama. But that kind of stubbornness makes even liberals look smart.


48 posted on 11/08/2008 12:30:34 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: DiogenesLaertius

I think your analysis is correct.

McCain’s centrist reputation had the party in such an uproar. He picked a social-conservative/populist, and he probably lost the fiscal conservatives. But, if he had picked a social-moderate/fiscal conservative, he would’ve lost the social conservatives.

Maybe, if he had picked a running mate who was conservative across the board, he would’ve won. That’s all water under the bridge now, but we have to think of the future. If Palin is the future of this party, she’d better start cutting much more federal pork coming into her state and start supporting school choice/privatization. I want the Dept. of Education shut down. If she continues to support more funding for public schools, count me out.


49 posted on 11/08/2008 12:43:15 AM PST by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: prismsinc

i know of 12 people who stayed home...


50 posted on 11/08/2008 12:49:17 AM PST by philly-d-kidder (The Phillies Parade was awesome!! Did I tell you Phillies are world champions!)
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