Replies

>>In re: red shift, I believe that God created things in mature states. For instance, if Adam had cut down a tree the first few days, there would have been rings. Even though the tree had been standing there “full grown.”<<

So the billions of miles observed from the red shift predate the beginning of the Universe?

>>Think about Jesus turning the water into wine in Galilee.

How do we turn water into wine? We pour it near a grapevine, the water wicks up the stem, goes into the grapes, they ripen, we harvest, we crush, we filter, we store for years or what have you (pardon me if I leave out a step or two, I have never made wine). At the end we have a delicious product that is the fruit of perhaps many years’ work.

Jesus did it instantaneously. But if you have put a drop of His wine on a microscope slide, it probably would have looked just like a nice wine made the traditional way.
<<

So God created fossils and strata miraculously for some reason only He can understand? He created an entire fake physically consistent history spanning billions of years? To what end was this done?

Yes, there have been miracles. But they tend to be individual events and not broad brush.

>>Normally, light travels at a certain speed. But God isn’t under any compulsion to do things normally.<<

Certainly. I ask again, to what end would God create a consistent physical Universe that can be measured and evaluated, cross-checked and consistency checked?

And do you also think that God just makes physics work on His whim? Chemical reactions depend on His beneficence?

Why would God deceive us so?

>>As for no human fossils being found next to dinosaur fossils, if you say so, I’ll take you at your word. I have mentioned the Paluxy River Bed in previous posts. But, I have been informed that the human fossil footprints next to the dino tracks there are suspect in some way. I don’t know.<<

Yes, you don’t.

>>But I ask you, because I don’t know the answer, what types of fossils ARE found near dino fossils? Is there a large variety, or just a few things? Is the mere absence of human fossils next to dino fossils proof that men never lived on this earth at the same time as they?<<

Yes, it is proof of that.

As to the strata and so forth, I don’t think God made the earth this way in order to confuse us. I think the model of catastrophism is the best model - that the worldwide flood was responsible for a lot of the strata. This occurred after creation, of course. I don’t believe that God put dinosaur fossils several feet under Eden, just to confuse us. “For God is not the author of confusion. . .” 1Co 14:33

No, billions of miles observed from red shift don’t predate the beginning of the Universe. When God created the stars, he created them “with age,” like the mature trees. The light was visible at the time He created them. It didn’t have to travel billions of years first, while God waited. God doesn’t have to wait.

He created light, you know.

He created Adam a mature man. He did not start him as an ovum, get him fertilized and etc., the whole 20 years or what have you until maturity. He was a full grown man on the day he was created. Eve was a full grown woman. After that, though, His design of reproduction began, and we got Cain and Abel and so on through history. That is what is normal to us. But God is not constricted to what is normal.

“to what end would God create a consistent physical Universe that can be measured and evaluated, cross-checked and consistency checked?”

For His glory. God created a stable, checkable, explorable world. It reveals His incredible ability. Think of one thing. Think of the human eye. What a piece of work. How many mutations, all positive towards its current end, would need to occur to get that eyeball to its current state? Millions. But you would believe that, rather than believe a loving and sovereign God created it? I find the intelligent design of a great Creator to be a far smaller ‘leap of faith!’

One can be a successful and learned scientist and still believe God created this world and all that is in it in six days. Scientific exploration, then, reveals to us the amazing design and ingenuity of God, rather than chance mutations over billions of years. “The spacious heavens declare the glory of our God, and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto neight reveals knowledge.” (Psalm 19:2)

Physics and chemical reactions were designed by Him. I see no inconsistency between physical and chemical processes and six day creation. My son has a BS in Physics (UCLA) and is a six day creationist. He sees no contradiction, and uses his degree in his work on a daily basis in medical research.

If the absence of human fossils next to dino fossils proves that humans and dinos didn’t co exist, than the absence of snail fossils next to dino fossils proves that snails and dinos didn’t coexist, etc. There are an awful lot of species on this planet. I don’t think all of them have to lie fossilized next to dinos to prove that they existed at the same time. I would be interested to see, if it were available, a list of all the known species fossilized right near fossilized dino bones.

I would say that fossilized humans next to fossilized dinos would be scientific proof of their coexistence, however.

And do you also think that God just makes physics work on His whim?

We don't really know what makes physics "work." What is clear is that there are different sets of rules for different circumstances; i.e., very small things are governed by different rules than are things like us, than are things that are traveling at very high speeds.

Answering why is always difficult, and in some cases, it may be impossible. But it's certainly clear that there isn't one standard set of rules. It could very well be that this is simply one more thing that we don't understand.

And note, while I don't believe in young earth, I don't think you can dismiss such notions out of hand.

Marie2: But I ask you, because I don’t know the answer, what types of fossils ARE found near dino fossils? Is there a large variety, or just a few things? Is the mere absence of human fossils next to dino fossils proof that men never lived on this earth at the same time as they?

fd: Yes, it is proof of that.

Bzzztt.... Wrong.....

If you find them together, you can safely conclude that they existed together. Not finding them together means nothing especially with as spotty as the fossil record is and with fossilization so poorly understood.

Buy a clue.... Not everything that ever lived left a fossil, therefore, in the field, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

Looks like you flunk basic science.