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U.S. Army Agrees That The M-4 Sucks
Strategy Page ^ | November 25, 2009

Posted on 11/28/2009 2:11:52 AM PST by myknowledge

The U.S. Army has finally addressed years of complaints about the M-4 and M-16 assault rifles. The M-4 is a short barrel M-16, and has become very popular with the troops. The army has asked the Department of Defense for permission to spend a few hundred million dollars on upgrades for its 400,000 M-4 assault rifles. The big change is replacing the main portion of the rifle with a new component that contains a short stroke piston gas system (to reduce buildup of carbon inside the rifle) and a heavier (by five ounces) barrel (which reduces barrel failure from too much heat, which happens when several hundred rounds are fired within a few minutes.)

Much of this goes back to the decades old argument about replacing the recoil system in the M-16 assault rifles. This came to a head (again) two years ago, when the army ran more tests on its M-4 rifle, involving dust and reliability. Four weapons were tested. The M4, the XM8, SCAR (Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle) and the H&K 416 (an M4 with the more dust resistant components of the XM8 installed).

The testing consisted of exposing the weapons to 25 hours of heavy dust conditions over two months. During that testing period, 6,000 rounds were fired from each of ten weapons of each type. The weapons with the fewest failures (usually jams) were rated highest. Thus the XM8 finished first, SCAR second, 416 third and M4 last. In response, the army said it was satisfied with the M4s performance, but was considering equipping it with a heavier barrel (to lessen overheating) and more effective magazines (27 percent of the M4s 882 jams were magazine related.) The army noted that the M4 fired over 98 percent of its rounds without problems. That missed the point that the other rifles had far fewer jams. In combat, each jam is a life threatening situation for the soldier in question. The army had been forced by Congress to conduct the tests. Congress was responding to complaints by the troops.

The XM8 had 127 jams, the SCAR 226 and the 416 had 233. Thus the M-4 had nearly eight times as many jams as the XM8, the rifle designed to replace it. The M4 had nearly four times the jams of the SCAR and 416, which were basically M4 type rifles with a different gas handling system. Any stoppage is potentially fatal for the soldier holding the rifle. Thus the disagreement between the army brass, and the troops who use the weapons in combat.

In dusty places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you have to clean your M16 and M4 rifles constantly, otherwise the combination of carbon (from the recoil system) and dust in the chamber will cause jams. The army and marines both decided to stick with their current weapons, rather than adopt an easier to maintain weapon, like the XM8 or H&K 416, because of the billion or so dollars it would cost to switch rifles.

If the issue were put to a vote, the troops would vote for a rifle using a short-stroke system (like the XM8, SCAR or H&K 416). But the military is not a democracy, so the troops spend a lot of time cleaning their weapons, and hoping for the best. The debate involves two intertwined attitudes among senior army commanders. First, they don't want the hassle, and possible embarrassment, of switching to a new rifle. Second, they are anticipating a breakthrough in weapons technology that will make a possible a much improved infantry weapon. This is likely to happen later, rather than sooner, but the generals kept obsessing over it.

Earlier efforts to just get the troops a more reliable rifle have failed. Back in 2005, the U.S. Army's design for a new assault rifle, the XM8, was cancelled. But now the manufacturer has incorporated one of the key components of the XM8, into M4 rifles, and calls the hybrid the H&K 416. Heckler & Koch (H&K) designed the XM8, which was based on an earlier H&K rifle, the G36. SOCOM is using the 416, but no one else is (except for a few police departments).

The XM8 (like the G36 and 416) uses a short-stroke piston system. The M16s uses the gas-tube system, which results in carbon being blown back into the chamber. That leads to carbon build up, which results in jams (rounds getting stuck in the chamber, and the weapon unable to fire.). The short-stroke system also does not expose parts of the rifle to extremely hot gases (which wears out components more quickly). As a result, rifles using the short-stroke system, rather than the gas-tube, are more reliable, easier to maintain and last longer.

H&K developed the 416, for SOCOM, at the same time the XM8 was being evaluated by the army. SOCOM got the first 416s in 2004, a year before the army cancelled the XM8. The 416 looks like the M4, for the only thing that has changed is the gas system that automatically extracts the cartridge after the bullet has been fired, and loads the next round. SOCOM can buy pretty much whatever they want, the U.S. Army cannot. SOCOM listens to what its troops want, the army often doesn't.

The army is also making three other changes, as part of the M-4 component replacement. There will be improved trigger pull characteristics, a stronger (less likely to fail) rail on the top of the rifle (for fitting scopes and other accessories), ambidextrous controls (to make life easier for lefties) and a round counter (in the pistol grip) to track the number of bullets fired over the lifetime of the rifle (makes for better data on how rifles perform over time, and for scheduling the replacement of components.)


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: assaultrifle; banglist; barrett; barrettm468; coltm4; fn; fnscar; hecklerkoch; hk; hk416; hkxm8; m16; m4; remington; remingtonacr; socom; usarmy
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To: Favor Center

Yeah, all rifles need cleaning, my M1A(M14 variant) and couple of M1 Garands, needs a bit of cleaning at the gas piston periodically, but solvents do the trick.

And how short is short range, out to 200 yards is about all most can shoot accurately anyway — especially under duress. When hunting it’s laughable what the scoped rifle crowd misses. And — Just look at the number of police gun fights where tens of rounds are fired and no one is hit.

Hence the switch to short barreled shotguns for me. In city areas, it’s all you need. And in the swamps of Florida, probably even less attention to range, and more attention to snap shooting.

If I had a choice the new Ruger SR-556 looks good. But not the price.


41 posted on 12/01/2009 9:13:56 AM PST by Tarpon (To destroy the people's liberties, you poison their morals ...)
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To: Tarpon

“Yeah, all rifles need cleaning, my M1A(M14 variant) and couple of M1 Garands, needs a bit of cleaning at the gas piston periodically, but solvents do the trick.”

You need the drill bits to clean out the M14’s gas lock and piston. Lots of carbon builds up in there.

“And how short is short range, out to 200 yards is about all most can shoot accurately anyway “

200 yards is short range. 600 yards is medium range. 1000 yards is long range. An AR is capable of good accuracy out to at least 600 yards, but that requires ammunition unsafe in something like the Mini-14. Most military 5.56 is unsafe in the Mini-14.

“And — Just look at the number of police gun fights where tens of rounds are fired and no one is hit.”

They don’t practice or train.


42 posted on 12/01/2009 9:37:10 AM PST by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Favor Center
There has been a lot of discussion about branding the mini unsafe with 5.56 ammo, but little proof it really is. People say it's the rifling lede problem which raises chamber pressure, easily fixed by a gunsmith, but I have had no problems with mine. But now I mostly use white box 223 ammo and handloads.

Find something to shoot at 600 yards in city surroundings. Even the boats that go by are closer than that.

I used to practice at a 600 yard range, it wasn't simple to hit a 3 foot target at that range, much less the bullseye. And when stressed, it was even worse at 200 yards. After living in Colorado, that makes the real range problem very obvious. I contend that if most can deliver a kill shot to a target at 200 yards, they are quite good at it.

Not bragging, just fact — I was able to bullseye with powerful scopes off a rest at 200 yard range under field conditions, but not necessarily under harder hunting conditions. Off a bench, I easily could do under 1 inch groups at 100 yards with handloads tuned for the rifle. In the field, bullet drop and windage becomes big problems in the open range when hunting. Snipers are to be revered.

As I aged, the accuracy went down, who doesn't have that problem.

But I still don't like ARs, just because ....

43 posted on 12/01/2009 10:00:10 AM PST by Tarpon (To destroy the people's liberties, you poison their morals ...)
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To: Tarpon

“There has been a lot of discussion about branding the mini unsafe with 5.56 ammo, but little proof it really is.”

The very LOADING allowable for 5.56 is up to 20,000 psi higher than SAAMI, so yes, there is proof. Now, it may or may not damage the rifle, but it still can exceed the pressure it was designed for.

“Find something to shoot at 600 yards in city surroundings. Even the boats that go by are closer than that.”

I don’t live in a city. I hate cities.

“I used to practice at a 600 yard range, it wasn’t simple to hit a 3 foot target at that range, much less the bullseye.”

It is if you practice and have a good rifle and ammunition.

“Not bragging, just fact — I was able to bullseye with powerful scopes off a rest at 200 yard range under field conditions, but not necessarily under harder hunting conditions. Off a bench, I easily could do under 1 inch groups at 100 yards with handloads tuned for the rifle. In the field, bullet drop and windage becomes big problems in the open range when hunting. Snipers are to be revered.”

I regularly hit 600 yard targets with an AR-15 in the 10 ring using iron sights prone with a sling in high temp conditions and variable weather and on the clock. I can do that with an M14 too. Not bragging, just fact. There are countless competitors better than me at it, too.

Bullet drop and windage are why (1) the sights are adjustable and we have tables and (2) windage is helped by having a spotting scope, but flags, grass, and trees will get you there.

“But I still don’t like ARs, just because ....”

I was an M14 shooter and thought the same of mouseguns. I learned from losing to them.


44 posted on 12/01/2009 11:53:11 AM PST by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Favor Center

You appear to be a good shot. I am afraid my old eyes cannot do it anymore.


45 posted on 12/01/2009 12:10:37 PM PST by Tarpon (To destroy the people's liberties, you poison their morals ...)
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To: Tarpon

“You appear to be a good shot. I am afraid my old eyes cannot do it anymore.”

I’m just fair-to-middling.

Focusing on the front sight post is usually the biggest problem as we age. There, the M14 has a slight advantage with a longer sight radius. Ring-and-ring iron sights (”match” rifles) or shooting F-Class (optics) are the usual fixes to continue shooting at medium range targets. It can be done. It requires effort, practice, and suitable equipment, but it can be done and it is easier than you think. Truly great marksmanship skills like Gallagher’s or Tubb’s probably can’t be taught, but at least expert-level marksmanship can be. If push comes to shove, take your Mini-14 to an Appleseed event. The limitations of that platform will not be an issue (they shoot at VERY short ranges), but the fundamentals taught apply at longer ranges.

Too many are never actually taught to shoot. Most hunters, many in law enforcement, and a lamentable chunk of the military fall in that category.


46 posted on 12/01/2009 1:07:34 PM PST by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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