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Michigan weapons company Trijicon takes flak for rifle scopes with Bible verse
nydailynews ^ | January 19th 2010, | Stephanie Gaskell

Posted on 01/19/2010 5:25:10 AM PST by JoeProBono

A Michigan weapons company is under fire for branding thousands of rifle scopes used by U.S. soldiers and Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan with passages from the Bible.

U.S. military rules prohibit any service member from proselytizing while serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, which are primarily Muslim nations.

Trijicon, a sighting manufacturer based in Wixom, Mich., has several multimillion-dollar contracts with the Pentagon to make sights.

Along with the sight's stock number, there are coded Bible passages from the New Testament engraved on the sights. One reads JN8:12, an apparent reference to John 8:12, which says, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon did not return calls for comment yesterday but confirmed the engravings to ABCNews.com. And the company's mission statement is steeped in religion, saying it strives to follow morals "based on Biblical standards."

Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said the sights endanger troops. "This plays right into the hands of maniacs who say, 'Look, it's a jihad,'" he said, adding that he's received several complaints from soldiers and Marines.

U.S. military officials told ABCNews.com they were "unaware" of the biblical markings.


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; bible; holybible; holyscripture; jpb; michigan; muslim; oneshotonekill; scopes; scripture; snipers; soldiers
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Trijicon ACOG 3x30 TA33 Scope


1 posted on 01/19/2010 5:25:11 AM PST by JoeProBono
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To: JoeProBono

Leviticus 19:15 would be a good inscription.


2 posted on 01/19/2010 5:27:41 AM PST by Brugmansian
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To: JoeProBono

Already posted somewhere. Mikey has a SERIOUS need to get a life.


3 posted on 01/19/2010 5:27:58 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: JoeProBono

My buddy was a sniper.
Called his rifle “sunshine”.
Was a big John Denver fan.


4 posted on 01/19/2010 5:29:46 AM PST by 240B (he is doing everything he said he would'nt and not doing what he said he would)
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To: JoeProBono

Oh yes, the same scope I used in Tom Clancy’s Rainbow 6 Las Vegas PC game, but I never noticed the writing on it.


5 posted on 01/19/2010 5:31:22 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft (Don't blame me, I voted for Palin! And I will AGAIN!)
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To: JoeProBono
ABC with its 3 so-called journalist on the job, act like it's the crime of the century.

Anti-Christian Big Media Pundits act like a bunch of vampires reacting to Light-of-Day or simple Crucifix!

6 posted on 01/19/2010 5:34:25 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: JoeProBono

Trijicon better be prepared - betcha this administration will see to it that they lose their government contract.


7 posted on 01/19/2010 5:34:36 AM PST by demkicker (Helping Democrats Become Extinct)
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To: demkicker

ever GI I know will want one on their rifle so if I were they I would be making a web site that allowed mom and dad to buy one for them.

you know we have to do this our selves sometimes. I had to get gun oil from the US when I was doing this .. just the way it was.. and is.. So NRA open a site for them..


8 posted on 01/19/2010 5:38:33 AM PST by gibtx2 (keep up the good work I am out of work but post 20 a month to this out of WF Check)
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To: JoeProBono; Squantos; wardaddy

ACOG Ping


9 posted on 01/19/2010 5:43:04 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: JoeProBono
adding that he's received several complaints from soldiers and Marines.

I call BS on this turd.

10 posted on 01/19/2010 5:44:33 AM PST by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: gibtx2

There are several sites where anyone can buy an ACOG - The one I have says TA01-NSN - I don’t see a Bible connection. I have friends here in the states that have sent their scopes to friends fighting in “the sand box” - they are good battle scopes.


11 posted on 01/19/2010 5:45:07 AM PST by JD91
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To: JoeProBono
Ezekiel 25:17. The real one of course, would be more appropriate. :)

And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

12 posted on 01/19/2010 5:45:39 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: TexasCajun
ABC with its 3 so-called journalist on the job, act like it's the crime of the century.

When they could be focused on more important issues, such as smearing Sarah Palin!

13 posted on 01/19/2010 5:47:38 AM PST by JaguarXKE
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To: Travis McGee
For years, all kinds of scope makers have been subliminally incorporating overtly Christian symbolism in their products. If you look closely, you can see (gasp) a cross!


14 posted on 01/19/2010 5:47:58 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: TexasCajun; JoeProBono

>>>ABC with its 3 so-called journalist on the job, act like it’s the crime of the century

My initial reaction was “So what” but thinking about it, yes it’s an actual story. And the verses should be eliminated.

Using this in Muslim lands gives the taliban “proof” to the argument we are crusaders waging war on Allah. ‘Tricking” Muslim soldiers to use these sights just makes it worse.

The Brits were nearly expelled from India by a mutiny of their native troops when the story got around that British army ammunition was tainted.

“the introduction in 1857 of the `new Enfield rifle’
with its distinct ammunition, which required the bullet to be `bitten before loading’. Rumours that the grease used on the bullets was either from the fat of cattle or pigs, which either proved `sacred to Hindus’ or `pollution to Muslims’, was interpreted as attacking at the core of the Hindu and Muslim religious beliefs. These rumours unlike
those regarding the conversion to Christianity and dismantling of the caste system, did prove to have a factual basis, as the British government `withdrew the objectionable grease’. This belated action proved futile as the damage had already been done.”

We might want to avoid such errors of history.


15 posted on 01/19/2010 5:50:18 AM PST by tlb
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To: Joe 6-pack
Reminds me of the "Rule 308" emoticon:

(+)


16 posted on 01/19/2010 5:50:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: pnh102
"Ezekiel 25:17. The real one of course, would be more appropriate. :) And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them."

Wouldn't it be simpler to etch a picture of Samuel L. Jackson on the site?
17 posted on 01/19/2010 5:51:04 AM PST by The Louiswu (Government is made up of people, individuals who are largely ungoverned)
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To: JD91

a long time ago i had gun oil delivered to my unit by my dad with some special knives.


18 posted on 01/19/2010 5:51:36 AM PST by gibtx2 (keep up the good work I am out of work but post 20 a month to this out of WF Check)
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To: tlb

I don’t think we’re handing out thousand dollar ACOG sights to any Afghans to mount on fifty dollar Kalashnikovs.


19 posted on 01/19/2010 5:52:09 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: grobdriver
adding that he's received several complaints from soldiers and Marines.

I call BS on this turd.

I second that. Presumably if it is such a big deal for those guys they could just skip using the Tricon, and get along with the ordinary iron sights. You know, make it a little more of a fair fight for the Taliban who don't have good optics. Somehow I doubt that any US soldier or Marine would ever say or do such a thing.

More ABC BS propaganda.

20 posted on 01/19/2010 5:52:20 AM PST by freeandfreezing (Go Scott Brown!!!)
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To: grobdriver
Mikey Weinstein is the problem here. It's certainly not the Afghans ~ they're all Moslem and none of them has a Bible around to check out what it says.

I'm surprised Mikey has any idea of how to find a Bible reference.

Someone noted that Mikey may be Jewish ~ sorry ~ Mikey is not Jewish.

There is a Yiddish word for what he is ~ actually, a lot of Yiddish words for it.

None of them are nice.

21 posted on 01/19/2010 5:54:22 AM PST by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: grobdriver

You can bet that Major Hasan would have complained, had he known. There are more than a few muslims in the military; they and the occasional lefty are no doubt the source of the “complaints”, most likely at the urging of the ACLU and other lefty fronts.


22 posted on 01/19/2010 5:57:04 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: JoeProBono

Anyone who thinks the USA is going to defeat radical Islam by exhibiting our “secular values” is a fool.


23 posted on 01/19/2010 6:00:31 AM PST by PGR88
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To: JoeProBono
U.S. military rules prohibit any service member from proselytizing while serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, which are primarily Muslim nations.

The kind of proselytizing done with a Winchester 308 or Barrett 50BMG works for me!

24 posted on 01/19/2010 6:01:42 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: JoeProBono

Psalm .... Yea tho I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear no evil because I’m the meanest sombitch in the valley


25 posted on 01/19/2010 6:02:32 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Tax the poor. Taxes will give them a stake in society)
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To: tlb
Uhh, pigmeat and its byproducts was already Haram long before Mohammed came along.

That situation prevailed from North Africa to Southern China, and points to South of the Equator.

The comparison between a Bible verse and a pig is inappropriate and not supported by Islam.

BTW, I know of a couple of trained Sunni imams who keep a Bible on hand "just in case". Don't know if they ever had a "just in case", but if they did they had one.

The claim, though, wasn't that our troops would somehow be harmed with a Bible verse ~ that would be the rankest superstition in fact ~ demon worship actually ~ but that this violated the "no proselytizing" rule.

Still trying to figure out how Afghans are going to be proselytized with a rifle scope. About 99% of the time that sucker is being used to KILL an Afghan or a Jihadi ~ not to convert him.

26 posted on 01/19/2010 6:02:37 AM PST by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: JoeProBono
Have they not heard of Dunwitty's Discreet-o-Scope developed in the 19th Century? Geesh.


27 posted on 01/19/2010 6:03:05 AM PST by Daffynition (What's all this about hellfire and Dalmatians?)
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To: pnh102

28 posted on 01/19/2010 6:03:57 AM PST by JRios1968 (The real first rule of Fight Club: don't invite Chuck Norris...EVER)
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To: tlb

I doubt any muzzzies are closely examining the engraved stamping on our military scopes. This is a another politically correct form of hysteria that is stupid & senseless. Now Michael Weinstein can be proud of the fact that HE has clearly brought it to the attention of the jihadist islamic terrorists. Way to go Mikey, you anti-Christian bigot!!! And by the way, America WAS founded on the basis of Christian values & principles. Every founding father proclaimed their belief that America would prosper only if it held true to Christian values & principles & belief in Jesus Christ.


29 posted on 01/19/2010 6:03:57 AM PST by rcrngroup
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To: The Louiswu; JRios1968

Or just put what his character had engraved on his wallet on the side of the weapon instead.


30 posted on 01/19/2010 6:08:21 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: Mad Dawg
Yes, this was already posted here.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!


31 posted on 01/19/2010 6:10:22 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: bert

32 posted on 01/19/2010 6:16:15 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: bert

33 posted on 01/19/2010 6:16:15 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: JoeProBono
Happy owner of a TA01 here. This is a lot to do about nothing, as another poster said the author needs to get a life.

These ‘scopes’ have been and will continue to be lifesavers to our troops. Almost every personal and written comment from our soldiers that have been issued one of these have been overwhelming positive. In fact, many soldiers that do not get issued one purchase one for personal use at considerable cost mind you.

34 posted on 01/19/2010 6:17:18 AM PST by ATLDiver
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To: rcrngroup
We're NOT issuing these to the Iraqi military or the Afghans, just our soldiers. The base model is $1200 retail with some going for $2K so the DoD isn't just passing these out like candy.

From my understanding in most groups the designated marksman gets issued one while all the other troops have Aimpoints.

35 posted on 01/19/2010 6:20:02 AM PST by ATLDiver
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To: JoeProBono
"Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said the sights endanger troops."

As opposed to the muzzie jihadis who chop people's heads off. Yes, the real danger is the scopes...
36 posted on 01/19/2010 6:36:21 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: muawiyah

You mean words such as...collaborator, enemy agent, or traitor?


37 posted on 01/19/2010 6:39:49 AM PST by Sudetenland (Slow to anger but terrible in vengence...such is the character of the American people.)
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To: pnh102

hahaha, nice


38 posted on 01/19/2010 6:44:49 AM PST by The Louiswu (Government is made up of people, individuals who are largely ungoverned)
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To: JoeProBono

Discussion of ABC article:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2431236/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2431452/posts


39 posted on 01/19/2010 7:04:40 AM PST by Ready4Freddy ("It's not the number of burnt cars that worries me. It's the fact that everyone finds this normal..")
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To: Travis McGee

Yep. There are a few threads on it.

DOD issued me bibles an dog tags that had religious Code or text as well.....this POS Mikey W needs to grow up.

I love the idea of using the ACOG with that code (mine has it also) to kill trash islamakazis.

I know a knife maker that does such as well.

Stay Safe.


40 posted on 01/19/2010 7:09:50 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Travis McGee
Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said the sights endanger troops

isn't that wonderful...it's not perfectly ok to be bigoted towards Christianity after being bigoted against yourself for eras.

the Weinstein-named list of my cultural foes is growing...lol..and both end in the letter "Y"...Mikey meet Harvey

Shame of Israel for calling a missle "Gabriel" God forbid or weapons called Pegasus or Thunderbolt...more religious inference.... drunk with his own prejudice this nutbag...they should ignore him

41 posted on 01/19/2010 8:13:25 AM PST by wardaddy (Regardless of how screwed up Haiti is, we should not let folks die that we can help)
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To: ATLDiver

Yes, I realize that we are not issuing these to Iraqi or Afghans, just our soldiers. I should have made that more clear in my note. The aggravating thing, is that some schmuck like Mike Weinstein is trumpeting this loud & clear, thereby assuring America-haters (at home & abroad) one more reason to bash Anerica and target American soldiers or personnel.


42 posted on 01/19/2010 8:30:36 AM PST by rcrngroup
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To: rcrngroup

I understand and I agree with you but in all honesty at somepoint this Political Correct crap has got to stop if this Republic is to survive.

Besides, if push came to shove Trjicon would gladly remove the markings on new production to keep the contract.


43 posted on 01/19/2010 8:49:45 AM PST by ATLDiver
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To: rcrngroup

“Yes, I realize that we are not issuing these to Iraqi or Afghans, just our soldiers.”

You would be incorrect, sir:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/ht_scopes_slide6_ssh.jpg
(note Iraqi uniform and flag)

Is it “practically speaking” a big deal? No.

However, propaganda-wise it’s something the enemy can easily spin up as more evidence that this is a religious crusade and not a defensive war against terrorism.

So in essence Trijicon is parading their piety around to impress gun-buying Christians, at the cost of giving our enemy propaganda ammo to use against us. There is no reason whatsoever that Trijicon should put religious references on a gov’t contract product, much less one used in a war where religious issues are a major factor.


44 posted on 01/19/2010 9:14:40 AM PST by I can has Low Taxes?
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To: Travis McGee
the "Rule 308" emoticon:

(+)

FOTFL. that's a great one. It needs to be in the standard. Oh god, I can't stop laughing.

45 posted on 01/19/2010 10:53:05 AM PST by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: tlb
"...Using this in Muslim lands gives the taliban “proof” to the argument we are crusaders waging war on Allah...

Dude, really now. We should not waste a single calorie justifying our behavior to 7th-century heathen animals. They do not react to reason like a western person does. The coddling of these assclowns is one of the reasons we have not won a decisive victory yet.

Your example of the Enfield's pig/cow greased rounds is a good example how their worldview has not evolved one iota in the 154 years since that event occured.

46 posted on 01/19/2010 11:19:46 AM PST by I Buried My Guns
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To: I can has Low Taxes?
"...Trijicon is parading their piety around to impress gun-buying Christians..."

Except that to "parade" you must advertise and make widely known. They did not do that. Apparently they have been putting references on their sights for years and years with no advertisement of this fact. This argument is a fail.

"...There is no reason whatsoever that Trijicon should put religious references on a gov’t contract product...

Again, fail. This product is off the shelf, not made exclusively for the military. If anything, you should aim your muslim-appeasement and Christian-hatred towards the procurement officer who did not pick up on this (tiny and insignifigant) attribute.

47 posted on 01/19/2010 11:29:59 AM PST by I Buried My Guns
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To: I Buried My Guns

“Dude, really now. We should not waste a single calorie justifying our behavior to 7th-century heathen animals. They do not react to reason like a western person does. The coddling of these assclowns is one of the reasons we have not won a decisive victory yet.”

Brilliant strategy, no wonder the Afghan War is about to exceed Vietnam in length. And also no surprise that people from countries nowhere near Iraq and Afghanistan (Nigeria, Yemen, Indonesia) are piling onto the “America is out to get Muslims” bandwagon.

It’s people like you, who cleave to the “yep, this sure is a Holy War!” mentality, who are giving aid and comfort to the enemy by giving them the ammo to spin up uneducated peasants and idle rich kids to go out and kill your fellow Americans.


48 posted on 01/19/2010 11:35:25 AM PST by I can has Low Taxes?
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To: JoeProBono

49 posted on 01/19/2010 11:47:19 AM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: I can has Low Taxes?
"...It’s people like you, who cleave to the “yep, this sure is a Holy War!” mentality,..."

Actually, I possess more of a "Let's nuke them from orbit" kind of mentality.

As for your rantings about a "holy war": if this was indeed a holy war we would have won it in about 35 minutes. Your allusion to a holy war illustrates a simplistic view that a lot of athiests and liberals have: that this conflict revolves around Christianity fighting against islam.

A more accurate angle is this: A diverse, fully developed, mostly peace-loving culture is at war with 7th-century band of violent, heathen, desert-dwelling nomads who only bow to the most ruthless among them, and who celebrate xenophobia, misogyny, and child-rape.

Your other comments are simply not worth rebutting as they lack substance.

50 posted on 01/19/2010 12:09:39 PM PST by I Buried My Guns
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