Scientists turn migration theory on its head

The Vancouver Sun ^ | 26 Feb 2010 | Randy Boswell

[Palter]

Pre-Clovis ping.

[ClearCase_guy]

"Going back 30,000 years requires you to speculate," he says, "because we really don't have much of an idea what was going on."

An awful lot of science is just speculation and guesswork. There's nothing really wrong with that, but if someone says, "That doesn't really make that much sense", they are apt to be shouted down "You moron! It's settled science! The evidence is overwhelming! What? You think some man in the sky did it???"

Much of so-called science is just pushing a belief system based on little evidence.

[hennie pennie]

I enjoyed reading your interesting comments in an earlier thread about this.

[muawiyah]

One of the problems with many anthropologists is they believe that EVERYBODY is biologically the same.

That leads them to such conclusions as the one about Canada's climate being too harsh for the earliest colonists from the Old World.

Actually, those folks were already adapted to life in the high latitudes ~ not at all like modern humans who are more generally adapted to life in the mid-latitudes, or the Equator.

People who could handle 50 below zero weather in Siberia could certainly deal with the same weather in Canada, or other North American habitats. Provided there were sufficient animals around, they could live quite well!

Once they moved South, offspring who were less cold adapted would have a chance at survival and would eventually become more common ~ maybe even outnumbering those who were cold adapted.

At the same time I suppose non-cold adapted people with boats could probably make it from Sundaland to California in just a few years ~ more or less ~ but I really wonder about that leg from Northern Japan to Vancouver.

[muawiyah]

Thank you. I usually try to keep my eye on TWO of the migrations to America ~ that of the Sa'ami (about 14,000 years ago) and that of the Na Dene people (about 5,000 years ago).

I had a little handbook of American Indian sign language and was visiting the Smithsonian's Museum of American History when they had an exhibition of Shang Dynasty characters on display.

I found my sign language handbook told me what the Shang Dynasty characters were saying.

Obviously Chinese people had some connection to the first folks into America with a full fledged sign language ~ and that's the Na Dene ~ but given the Na Dene presence here BEFORE the Shang characters were invented, that meant that these guys were actually going back and forth from Central China to North America.

Eventually some Chinese anthropoligist will discover signs of American visitors in China several thousand years back.

[JoeProBono]

[wolfcreek]

Keep looking, fellas.

The oldest mountains on this planet are right here in America. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the *cradle*.

[wolfcreek]

Keep looking, fellas.

The oldest mountains on the planet exist right here in the US.

Native Americans say they’ve been here forever.

Wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this were the *cradle*.

[SunkenCiv]

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	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks Palter. ...the peopling of the Americas may have begun via Canada's High Arctic islands and the Northwest Passage -- much farther north and at least 10,000 years earlier than generally believed. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
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[MetaThought]

They are lying. There were people in this land before them.

[MaxMax]

You edit funny. /grin

[Grimmy]

I don’t know if it’s the scientists themselves, or how it gets reported to schmucks like me in the sources I see, but it’s always seemed kinda FUBARish to assume a one time event from a single path or source for the original populating of the Americas.

I also tend to heavily doubt that our current “indigs” are descended from the originals.

[muawiyah]

The Cherokee, Chippewa and Iroquois have the same set of x-factor gene sequences that the Sa'ami and Berbers do.

So at least we have some reason to believe the Chippewa, Iroquois and Cherokee may be descended from the "originals".

We can trace back the Na Dene (Navajo, Apache, Aztec) to the very same Yakuts who provided the ancestry to the Japanese royal house and the Daimyo (these are the non-Jomon invaders from the mid 6th century).

More recent work ties the Yakuts, also known as the Sakha, to the tribe by the same name that conquered much of India around 300 BC (from Nepal). Buddha was a Sakha.

Because we now have DNA analysis available, and super computers to assist in translating ancient documents, we know tremendous amount of information about the Yakuts we didn't know just 2 years ago.

[gitmo]

The most glaring of those gaps is the anomalous existence of a 14,500-year-old archeological site in Chile, near the southern extreme of the Americas, that clearly predates the time when East Asian hunters are thought to have first crossed from Siberia to Alaska via the Bering Land Bridge at the end of the last ice age some 13,000 years ago.

Amazing. Archeologists came to the New World before the hunters and were doing archeological digs in Chile 14,500 years ago? Sometimes we seriously underestimate the ancients.

[rdl6989]

Thanks, I’m bookmarking this very interesting thread. Now to find a good book on Bluefish Caves.

[SunkenCiv]

My pleasure.

[Bellflower]

Much of so-called science is just pushing a belief system based on little evidence.

And once that belief system is accepted it is used as fact to support other belief systems.

[Grimmy]

Sorry. By “Originals” I meant the very first wave of people to the Americas.

Don’t most indig tribes in the Americas have story/legend/myth about peoples that were here before them? If they do, some of that could be from conquest and replacement by members of the same colonization wave that had separated long enough prior that they didn’t know the common source, but some of it also could be conquest and replacement of totally different sourced peoples.

[muawiyah]

The Delaware or Lenni Lenape were always known as "the grandfather tribe".

There were no people before them that anybody knew about.

At the same time there's a MtDNA gene sequence (on the maternal side) that links the Sa'ami and Berbers, and quite amazingly the Yakut. There are some other minor bridges and links from these same groups to other far-flung groups.

Look at the Yakut connection closely. This is the founding population for virtually all American Indians, all Eskimos, the ethnic group in Siberia that invaded and conquered Korea and Japan in the 6th century AD, and India in the 3rd/2nd century BC (see my earlier notes on Buddha's family).

Which means two things ~ the maternal line of the first Europeans to leave the Western European Refugia along the border of modern Spain and France really got around ~ and also that the emigration of people from Asia AFTER the 10th millenium was a far more important contributor to modern American Indian populations than emigrations before that time, or after the 6th millenium.

Always remember, genes flow where they will oblivious to culture.