[oldenuff2no]

Nope right here. Because of what we do there are times we are out in public with our pups or training around large groups of people. That is exactly what we were doing today.
On the cervical damage I call BS, show me the data. Right now it is my position that I can not refute something that does not exist.
As for your comments about working stock dogs at extended distances. In Scotland, Ireland, and Australia, it is done each and every day. If you want to play with the big boys and get top dollar for your dogs then they have to be able to preform in this league. http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/border-collie-nia-2-working-sheep/63953459a0f3707a51c063953459a0f3707a51c0-1675554521891 Take a look at the first dog. Listen to the whistles. Every move is under the handlers control. This dog will work like this as far away as she can hear the whistle. The problem with many dog owners is they have no idea what a smart dog can do. I've seen many stock dog trials where the first dog would not even be in the top 10. There is a succession of videos and even one where they show someone starting a Kelpie. Take a few minutes to see what these dogs can do. It is done every day.

[Salamander]

Duh.

We *know* about herding dog trials.

Personally, I watch them on the animal/nature channels every chance I get.
*Wonderful* displays of animal/human partnership.

My grandparents just used “all purpose” Collies on their live stock.

Just a *few minutes* spent on Google turned up these sites on collars and cervical damage:

http://www.neilsnet.com/archives/collars/collars.shtml

http://www.doganswers.com/collars.htm

http://www.dogbreedz.com/dog_articles/dogarticle/dog_neck_spine.htm

I could post tons more but these should get my point across.

Frankly, being such a “training expert”, I’m surprised that you were not already aware of the severe damage being done to your dogs, depending on the type of collar you may be using.

So....what types *are* you using?

[I use the “horrible medieval torture device” which ~won’t~ harm my dog, myself]

[LongElegantLegs]

I mentioned it because the specificity of your boasting amused me; I'm aware of what can be achieved with herding dogs. I'm still wondering if you consider bad training to be a uniquely pitbull fault, because of this quote:

I have to wonder which is more stupid. The dog because it isn't smart enough to do what it needs to do