Posted on 07/01/2010 5:07:47 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Most of Hollywood and the press are not Christians. They do the same things.
“The real question here is why was this woman taping him,”
Putting myself in her shoes, I’d guess for protection. She has a child. I wouldn’t want a manic person like that stalking me.
Otherwise it’s like, “he said, she said,” and of course everyone says she’s lying because she wants money.
She may well want money, but, his apparently insane rages are not something to ignore.
Your theory about bi-polar/mania is plausible. I don’t necessarily doubt it.
My whole point of posting on this thread was to say that I don’t think he is being persecuted for being a Christian.
Do you think his possible bi-polar mania caused him to leave his wife and family of 27 years?
“Most of Hollywood and the press are not Christians. They do the same things.”
I know, but they don’t claim to be Christians, and make movies promoting gospel claims like “The Passion of Christ,” etc. So there is a huge hypocrisy factor here.
Yes. I agree. But they hate Gibson because he made the movie without them. They even tried to stop it's distribution. He IS them but they target him for making the Passion. That movie is shown at youth groups, churches and Bible studies. It energized Christians. THAT makes him a target.
Actually, that was sort of my point. Trying to destroy a man over things he supposedly said is in direct contrast to Christ's teachings. I don't know the man, and neither do you, but from what I understand, his relations with members of other races sharply contrast the image the media has presented of him. If the guy hated Jews or black people, he wouldn't have Jewish or black friends. The tapes were taken out of context and used to destroy the man. First, because of his political views, and second because of his attepts to mainstream Christianity.
The incident reported here is a perfect example. Gibson obviously did not present any real threat to his girfriend. Otherwise, there would have been more to the story. I know I've threatened to "kill" a loved one a few times in my life. Doing so here was a mistake that's going to cost him more money in court, but that didn't make it credible.
Meanwhile, Christ instructed us specifically not to judge people, and especially when we don't know the whole story.
Mania can also stir religious fervor, though Gibson was brought up in an "Orthodox Catholic" family, so who knows how much the Bi-Polar effected this. It can certainly cause people to do irrational things like leaving your wife and kids, but the press doesn't seem too hung up on that one. In the more advanced stages, it often produces syptoms thqat are a lot like schizophrenia (hearing voices, seeing things), and I wouldn't be at all suprised is that's where he's headed. I also think that if he were on lithium, he's probably go back to making excellent movies like "The Patriout" and "Braveheart."
Well, the abandonment of his family is a sin. Christ said judge not lest ye be judged; He also said to judge with righteous judgment.
As for threatening to kill people, Christ said we are guilty of murder if we do that. I have a hard time with your attitude about that, as though it is no big deal. No one in my family has ever threatened to kill me. As a matter of fact I can’t remember anyone outside of my family threatening to kill me, either. It is a big deal.
When God tells us that a person who abandons his family is worse than a heathen; or that hating people is the sin of murder; he does not make exception for bi polar disorder.
I appreciate that Mel has, or had, black and Jewish friends. Is he perhaps double minded? Or has he descended more and more into sin as the years go on? I don’t know.
The Bible further tells us to have nothing to do with someone who has left the faith, not even to eat with such a one. That would require judgment. There are many instructions about who to fellowship with and who not to. So, the admonition not to judge must be understood in relation to these many instructions.
I do not condemn Mel to hell. I can’t, and anyway, I don’t want to. I do not declare him unforgiveable. It’s not my lookout, and anyway, he has not committed the unpardonable sin so far as I know. In that sense, I don’t judge him.
However, to put him in there with the believers in detention center 20 in North Korea, or the ten Boom family, or Dietrich Bonhoeffer, or the two Margarets, or William Tyndale, and so forth - fantastic, godly Christian who were indeed persecuted for their faith - is absurd, and insulting to the martyrs of today and yesterday.
Here are real Christians being really persecuted for their faith:
T. J. Joseph, a teacher at Thodupuzha New Man College in the Southern most state of Kerala in South India was attacked by Muslim fundamentalists and his hands were cut off.
Kerala claims the highest literacy rate in India and Christians make 19% of the population of state with Islam and Hinduism making 24% and 56 % respectively.
T.J. Joseph is a Malayalam teacher at the NewMan College, Thodupuzha, Kerala State, India. The College was started by Dr. Mathew Pothanamuzhy, the then Bishop of Kothamangalam diocese of Eastern Catholic rite, Syro Malabar Church in one of the most backward district Idukki in Kerala.
The issue started when Muslim fundamentalist organizations accused the question paper of a second year Bachelor of Commerce degree Malayalam course at the Newman College with a reference to Muhammad as “misleading and inflammatory’”. Protests were called by various Muslim organizations which turned violent in April 2010.
The Communist is in power in the Kerala state. The State Education Minister M.A.Baby then instructed Idukki district administration to register a criminal case against the teacher who prepared the question paper. A witch hunt was followed and the teacher later submitted himself to the Police after his son was allegedly taken in Police custody. Since then the teacher and his family was getting frequent threats from Muslim fundamentalist organizations in Kerala state.
The College management and the Mahatma University whose under the College instigated actions against the teacher.
At least three times group of people broke in and searched the house of the teacher including night time. The state police under the communist government did not act on the complaints by family and failed to undertake investigation and provide security to the teacher.
On 4th of July 2010, when the family returned from the Mass at Church, their car was stopped and the family including his aged mother and sister was tortured by a group of eight people who came in a Maruti Omni vehicle. The teacher was taken out of the vehicle and his two hands were cut off. T J Joseph, has sustained multiple injuries in his whole body. The fundamentalist group created fearful atmosphere with fire crackers to carry out this most heinous act. The teacher is admitted now at a specialist hospital in Ernakulam and his condition is said to be very critical.
The state police has confirmed that Popular Front, a Muslim fundamentalist organization is behind the attack. The Police has arrested five people, Jaffer, Ashraf, Hassan, Ali and Abubekrar so far. The Muslim terrorist organization Popular front has blocked the Police station at Perumbavoor in Kerala to free its activist who did this heinous crime.
I don’t recall Sandra Bernhardt receiving this much publicity after she said the same thing about Gov. Palin. Maybe someone should ask Kelly McGillis what she thinks of the subject.
And yet you appear to do so anyway.
As for threatening to kill people, Christ said we are guilty of murder if we do that. I have a hard time with your attitude about that, as though it is no big deal. No one in my family has ever threatened to kill me. As a matter of fact I can’t remember anyone outside of my family threatening to kill me, either. It is a big deal.
Thank God for your plain-vanilla existence, I guess. I have had more people than I can count threaten to "kill" me. And yet here I am. Threats don't mean anything when the person issuing the threat has no intention of carrying it out. The police deemed Gibson's threat invalid. That's why they took no action. I can assure you that people do in fact make bogus threats like this sometimes. You can think it's a big deal if you like. The police did not.
When God tells us that a person who abandons his family is worse than a heathen; or that hating people is the sin of murder; he does not make exception for bi polar disorder.
As a matter of fact, you have no idea what God makes an exception for. The Bible does not mention Bi-Polar disorder anywhere that I have noticed.
You also have no idea whether Mel Gibson has or has not left the faith. That is between him and God.
And you are in fact judging him. And it sounds very much to me that you are enjoying it.
And bear in mind that nowhere did I exhalt the man's faith, or compare it to that of others (with the possible exception of people who write articles like this). I have no idea what the man's relationship with God is, just like I have no idea whether he is really suffering from a mental illness. I have never met him, and neither have you, and yet you judge him anyway, and pretend that you don't.
This is not, to my knowledge, a conversation that we have been having. I like hearing about inspirational people, so I will read your post when I get the chance.
In the meantime, this is a classic strawman. Please state your motivation for posting this at this time. I sought only to defend a man from liberal media assasination, not get into a contest about who is more righteous than who.
Feel free to start any threads you like about your personal heros. In the meantime, if you are going to be conversing with me, please try to stay on subject.
The subject, as far as I know, is, is Mel really being persecuted for his Christianity?
I am saying he is not.
I offered examples of those who are, or who have been.
“Christ said judge not lest ye be judged; He also said to judge with righteous judgment.
And yet you appear to do so anyway.”
No, you have to read the whole Bible. He also said to judge with righteous judgment, etc., as I listed
If you think living without death threats is a “plain vanilla” existence, well, I don’t know what to say.
And you are wrong. None of this stuff would appear in newspapers, or on FR threads otherwise. And you wouldn't have visited these threads either.
I offered examples of those who are, or who have been.
Offering threads of others who have been persecuted even more so neither helps nor hurts your argument. It just deliberately wastes my time, which is unchristian. Nobody said this man was especially persecuted. The left cares about him because he made a beautiful and very accurate film about the Crucifixion and Resurrection that hundreds of people went to see. For that reason only. Danny Glover divorced his wife after 20+ years. Nobody cares. This story was the lead story in many newspapers the day it came out. If you are truly having a problem comprehending all of this, I probably can't help you any further, and i forgive you for continuing to waste my time with irrelevant points.
See my other post. Let’s try to avoid multiple posts to the same person one the same subject matter, shall we. That is also a waste of time.
I am discussing Mel Gibson’s situation and allegations against him from a variety of standpoints. I am also responding to posts to me, yours among them.
If I am wasting your time, quit posting to me.
I'm not. My points to you have been very specific. It is rude for you to be responding to other people's posts in your multiple responses to me. I'm still waiting for a valid point about Gibson (as opposed to any questions -which I've answered) based on anything I have posted to you. Your position seems to be that the way the press is handling this story has nothing to do with Gibson's past history, which is idiotic.
“Your position seems to be that the way the press is handling this story has nothing to do with Gibson’s past history, which is idiotic. “
That sounds suspiciously like a judgement. . .
It might be a judegement if I hadn't previously stated my reasoning with definite examples. After that, it is simply an observation. It this point, it looks to me like you simply arguing for the sake of argument. This, too, is idiotic.
No, I am not arguing just to argue. I am trying to make a point. You either don’t get it or don’t agree with it; either way that is ok.
You can look up to Mel or see him as a victim or whatever. I myself appreciate some of his his movies and some of his previous stands but I don’t see him as a persecuted believer. So it lies. I doubt he cares what either one of us think either way, anyway.
While I have disagreed with you on this thread I have not taken an opportunity to call you ‘idiotic.’ If someone does not agree with you, or if you don’t follow their line of thought, they are not automatically an idiot. You will probably convince more people of your position if you remember that.
an audiotape of Gibson telling Oksana Grigorieva... that the way she is dressed made her look like a "pig in heat." "If you get raped by a pack of n***ers, it will be your fault," Radaronline reported Gibson as shouting at Grigorieva during an argument
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