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Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine: Are Handgun Caliber Rifles the New Home Defense Shotgun?
The Truth About Guns ^ | 10 August, 2010 | Robert Farago

Posted on 08/11/2010 5:10:45 AM PDT by marktwain

Capt. John Raguso keeps threatening to send us a review of Kel Tec’s smokin’ SUB-2000 9mm carbine. Today, Hi-Point Carbines drops the news that their long awaited .45 ACP rifle is ready to rock and roll. These handgun-caliber carbine may be gaining favor over the venerable 12-gauge as the weapon of choice for hom defense. And for good reason. In fact, here are four. . .

1. Less recoil than a shotgun

While home defense shotguns put an awful lot of lead downrange with a single trigger squeeze, shooters pay the price with a big ole’ wallop to their shoulder. That’s no big thing for big people who’re comfortable with firearms (who may, in fact, like the kick). And in the heat of battle, who cares? But if a gun is formidable to fire (i.e. painful), its owners are FAR less likely to practice. If they don’t, they will not be confident and accurate.

Even in .45 ACP, handgun-caliber carbines have minimal recoil, relatively speaking. The lower recoil makes the rifles far more attractive to women, teens and (let’s be honest here) small-framed men. They can also put a lot of lead downrange. BONUS! Quick mag changes are easier than reloading a shotgun.

2. Quieter than a shotgun

The state prohibitions against silencers really piss me off. (Somebody was watching way too many spy movies.) Meanwhile, shotguns are ridiculously, enormously loud. While a handgun caliber carbine will make plenty of noise, a shooter stands a chance of being able to hear something after firing—which could save their life. Comparing the two firearms genres, handgun caliber rifles will definitely reduce a shooter’s chances of permanent, perhaps even catastrophic hearing loss.

3. Better than a handgun

So’s a shotgun. But again, there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating. In that sense, handgun caliber carbines hit the sweet spot. Thanks to the carbines longer sight radius, they’re easier to aim than a handgun, And more intimidating (i.e. visible)

Handgun caliber carbines increase bullet speed and, thus, penetration. Hi-Point says their .45 ACP’s longer barrel increases velocity figures between 80-200 FPS (feet per second) over a like-chambered handgun.

4. Less expensive

To my way of thinking, a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. A good one costs the thick end of a grand. This Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine costs $330. The SUB-2000 goes for $409.

I love shotguns. But the handgun caliber carbines may be better for more people. The market will speak.

Specifications for Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine:

Price: $330 MSRP Finish: Special high-durability black powder coat Stock: Black molded polymer-(with standard upper and lower Picatinny rails). Barrel length: 171/2-inches Overall length: 33-inches Weight: 71/2-pounds. Magazine capacity: 9-rounds. Sight: Adjustable front post and adjustable rear (ghost ring) Warranty: Lifetime on parts and labor that follows the gun. Manufacturer: Hi-Point of Mansfield Ohio-every part is made in the U.S.A. Factory affordable options are available: Folding grip, laser, scope sight, etc.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 45; banglist; carbine; gun; hipoint
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These carbines look very intimidating, are easy to shoot, and are quite reliable. I have one in 9mm, and the GF likes it. I'd prefer an AR-15 or mini-14 with frangible bullets, but they are quite a bit more expensive and louder.
1 posted on 08/11/2010 5:10:50 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

TTIWWP! The Kel Tec SUB2000.

2 posted on 08/11/2010 5:14:06 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: marktwain

I like .45. Trying to find an 8-round double stack magazine for a Llama Minimax X 45 Subcompact (1911-style). If any Freeper has a lead, etc., I would be most grateful to hear.


3 posted on 08/11/2010 5:15:00 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: marktwain

I have a Ruger PC-9 semi-auto police carbine, 9mm. It has ghost ring sights and a flashlight. I wouldn’t say it replaces a shotgun but it has its uses. It’s also a lot of fun to shoot.


4 posted on 08/11/2010 5:15:10 AM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: marktwain

I have to disagree with the original post about the shotgun. For home defense, a scatter gun is perfect, not to mention the sound of a shucked shell will scare a good number of people off in no time.

That said, I would have a carbine in .45, if I didn’t have 3 .45’s already...;)


5 posted on 08/11/2010 5:15:16 AM PDT by shag377 (Illegitimis nil carborundum sunt!)
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To: marktwain
Honey, hand me my Thompson. I think there is an intruder on the premises.


6 posted on 08/11/2010 5:16:31 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: marktwain

,” a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. “

Gotta disagree, here — there’s no more intimidating sound, from man or nature, than the distinctive ‘racking’ of a pump-action shotgun...

Makes it much more likely to be able to defuse a situation without having to fire a shot....


7 posted on 08/11/2010 5:19:07 AM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: marktwain

They’ve been talking about coming out with this 45 carbine for about 4 years. Glad it’s finally arrived. Now we have to see if it lives up to expectations.


8 posted on 08/11/2010 5:20:34 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: marktwain
I have a Kel-Tec in .40 S&W. I never thought about using it as my "bedside" gun, but it folds up small enough to fit in my nightstand and it will accept a 29 round magazine. Hmmm ...


9 posted on 08/11/2010 5:21:19 AM PDT by Malone LaVeigh
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To: marktwain
handgun caliber rifles have been all the rage since 1873 (or actually 1860)

here is one of my original handgun caliber rifles circa 1882 (this is a file photo from the web...not mine...I have 2, 1 made in 1882 and the other,my son's, had filed off serial numbers, which has been corrected, and we dont know how old it is...)


10 posted on 08/11/2010 5:21:19 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: marktwain
Seems like a 115 yr old Win94 30-30 has roughly the same benefits and may already be in the family arsenal. Also I've noticed that a 18.5" barreled 12 gauge doesn't kick as much as the 26" barrel.

Some kind of welding mask lens like device in a pair of headphones might help on the sound issue - to know where to put the second round.

11 posted on 08/11/2010 5:22:09 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: central_va
Honey, hand me my Thompson. I think there is an intruder on the premises.


12 posted on 08/11/2010 5:24:28 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: marktwain

Recently fired my neighbor’s Hi-Point 9mm and had a nice 3 inch grouping around in the target center at 25ft. A little tricky to chamber the first round, but feels great (the pistol and front grip), and easy/quick to sight. Needs a higher capacity magazine... 10 rounds??


13 posted on 08/11/2010 5:25:29 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: Vaquero

Lever actions have a pleasant racking sound too.


14 posted on 08/11/2010 5:25:30 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: marktwain

The key words here is “Home Defense”. Kinda hard keeping a rifle in your night stand drawer.

I prefer the Judge. But some cleanup required after shooting bad guy.

Here Comes the Judge! Taurus .45/410 Revolver

http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm


15 posted on 08/11/2010 5:26:27 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: marktwain

I prefer a shotgun for home defense, but .45ACP carbines are nice. I have two, a Beretta Storm, and my favorite, a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45ACP that uses 1911 mags,


16 posted on 08/11/2010 5:28:46 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: marktwain

Why bother with a pistol-ammo rifle for home defense when you can have a revolver that shoots .45 or 4-10 ammo?

17 posted on 08/11/2010 5:28:50 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: marktwain

18 posted on 08/11/2010 5:29:48 AM PDT by umgud (Obama is a failed experiment.)
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To: marktwain

I’m probably in the minority, but HiPoint make some of the ugliest guns I’ve ever seen.


19 posted on 08/11/2010 5:30:36 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: NavyCanDo
You out-drew me by 2 minutes...or a lifetime on the Freeper clock.
20 posted on 08/11/2010 5:31:25 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Paladin2
Some kind of welding mask lens like device in a pair of headphones might help on the sound issue - to know where to put the second round

Been around for years. Midway had a sale on them last year for about $25. You can talk and have a normal conversation at the Range, and fire all day. I bought a bunch for everyone I know. They run on a battery and have a volume control.

HERE.

21 posted on 08/11/2010 5:32:18 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: marktwain

I agree with a few posters, a 12-gauge pump shotgun with 18” barrel is the perfect home defense gun. Discharging ANY weapon inside a house is going to be loud so I don’t buy that arguement there.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a .45acp I use for carry and HD as well but one has to be more precise with a .45acp round as opposed to a shotgun. A properly setup HD shotgun (instant-on light, 8+ round magazine, tritum sights) will be better in almost any situation. A pistol is handy for ‘clearing’ around walls and doors and should be on your hip as backup.

A Mini14/AR15 in a home? No F’in way, even with frangible bullets! Even 9mm and .45acp rounds will be a problem if you miss your target as a bullet will go through several walls before stopping. 00 and 000 shot will not penetrate through multiple walls yet all energy will be absorbed by an immediate target.


22 posted on 08/11/2010 5:35:11 AM PDT by ATLDiver
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To: umgud

Price: $705.00


23 posted on 08/11/2010 5:35:35 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Rummyfan

HiPoint = Ugly + Junk (Yes I do own one, and use it now as a paperweight)


24 posted on 08/11/2010 5:36:18 AM PDT by xenob
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To: Uncle Ike

Agreed.

One also needs to consider other aspects as well, such and pointing and shooting without aiming (especially when roused from a sleep). As for rate of fire auto loaders are pretty damn quick.

The only drawbacks are the large holes in the walls and doors, length of the firearm in tight spaces, lack of ammunition (3-5 rounds).


25 posted on 08/11/2010 5:36:49 AM PDT by shotgun
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To: caver
"I’m probably in the minority, but HiPoint make some of the ugliest guns I’ve ever seen. "

I don't know about "ugly", but I bought one in .40 S&W and after keeping it, "un-fired" for nine months, I traded it in for a Glock in the same caliber. I love it!

26 posted on 08/11/2010 5:36:57 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (RAT Hunting Season started the evening of March 21st, 2010!)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Gorzaloon

Cool, thanks.


28 posted on 08/11/2010 5:38:23 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Uncle Ike
This is a commonly accepted fallacy. If you have to "rack" a shotgun you are at a disadvantage already. Best not to give them any warning at all. The first, and last, sound they should hear is

BOOM!

29 posted on 08/11/2010 5:38:53 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: marktwain; All
This isn't directed at anybody personally, but folks really need to reconsider this mythical notion of "racking a round into the chamber" to frighten a BG because it is a very bad tactic that might get you killed. I hope you're never in the situation, but do it and you're gambling with your life.

If the bg's a rational person, of course, he's gonna freeze and soil his pants. But what if he's in a separate reality from drugs, and he's armed or just physically capable of harm? Or what if he's a professional criminal who will know from that racking sound where to shoot, and that he's got about three microseconds to do it?

Check out this thread for an example:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2568496/posts

I can only suggest what other people do, of course, but in a standoff at my house the sound that guy's going to hear is a different one.

30 posted on 08/11/2010 5:39:49 AM PDT by OKSooner ("Don't let making a living prevent you from making a life." - Coach John Wooden)
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To: Uncle Ike

Cycling any type of gun tends to give away your position. I personally do not think that is a good idea.


31 posted on 08/11/2010 5:40:40 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: NavyCanDo
I prefer the Judge. But some cleanup required after shooting bad guy.

me too ... my bedside companion ... .410 000 4 pellet load from Federal

32 posted on 08/11/2010 5:42:06 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: shag377
Hmmm....defend my home with a Hi-point or a Benelli....no real choice there.

Someone should inform the author that ANY weapon fired in a confined area will be loud and disorienting. My favorite line in the article: there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating.
...especially if you are staring at the muzzle
33 posted on 08/11/2010 5:43:24 AM PDT by The_Sword_of_Groo (Counting the days until the US gets to apologize for Obama)
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To: P8riot

The shotgun doesn’t give much in the way of pellet dispersion at room ranges. Plus you’ve the weapon’s length to handle.

I’ve been a bad boy, simply taking along my .40 USPc to investigate things, but am training myself to take along one of the ARs (16”, Aimpoint, adjustable stock and 30 rounds) when the need occurs, and that should be sufficient for point defense.

But to be fair to myself, if I’ve pants on, I’ve got the pistol, with or without the carbine, which I think to be a good thing.


34 posted on 08/11/2010 5:43:30 AM PDT by benewton (I)
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To: P8riot

Correct...While the sound of a shotgun racking is a terrifying sound to be on the ‘receiving’ end it does give away your position. Any/all HD weapons should be at the ready.


35 posted on 08/11/2010 5:43:37 AM PDT by ATLDiver
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To: marktwain

A .45 ACP Carbine would be cool -

the requirement that I would impose on it would be that it would accept .45 ACP handgun magazines, ie, are interchangeable.

I want my mags to be used by as many guns, interchangeably, as possible.


36 posted on 08/11/2010 5:44:44 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Dixie Yooper

As long as you load it with the .45LC and not the .410 junk, it will work okay for home defense, but it’s far from a great choice as the BOT showed.


37 posted on 08/11/2010 5:44:58 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Eye of Unk
"Being a gunsmith I actually have in mind a modified fully auto converted Ruger 10-22 with a twin drum mag. Motor driven trigger."

Diesel or gasoline?
[smile]

38 posted on 08/11/2010 5:45:02 AM PDT by BlueLancer (I'm getting a fine tootsy-frootsying right here...)
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To: marktwain
---Quieter than a shotgun --

--in the unlikely situation where it will be fired at an intruder, the first two loads from my "coach gun" will be trap loads--not particularly noisy but can be followed by a couple with #4 buck---

39 posted on 08/11/2010 5:45:33 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: TheRightGuy

Not really a good home defense choice though. Put the .45LC rounds in it.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm


40 posted on 08/11/2010 5:47:24 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: umgud; All

Shotgun does it for me....

41 posted on 08/11/2010 5:47:28 AM PDT by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: Eye of Unk

I thought the M3 submachine gun was dubbed “grease gun” . Not the Thompson.


42 posted on 08/11/2010 5:47:55 AM PDT by 1raider1
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To: Uncle Ike

If you have waited that long to charge the weapon you have waited way too long.


43 posted on 08/11/2010 5:48:12 AM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Dixie Yooper
Why bother with a pistol-ammo rifle for home defense when you can have a revolver that shoots .45 or 4-10 ammo?

WTF is that?

44 posted on 08/11/2010 5:48:18 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jospehm20

” Cycling any type of gun tends to give away your position. I personally do not think that is a good idea. “

I, personally, do not think storing a gun, or any weapon, “in battery” is a particularly good idea....


45 posted on 08/11/2010 5:49:52 AM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: xenob; caver
Agreed....they are asthetically challenged. I have a 9mm HiPoint because it was dirt cheap. Since I have other quality firearms, I only plan to use it as potential trade bait in a SHTF scenario.

I view it as a higher capacity PF-45 Liberator.....use it once and get an upgrade from the opponent.

46 posted on 08/11/2010 5:50:04 AM PDT by edpc (Those Lefties just ain't right)
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To: marktwain

Interesting thread. We have been trying to decide on a home defense weapon, and were told by LEO that a shotgun is best. Then someone said that a shotgun is not good because of what one poster said- barrel could be grabbed, makes a mess in your house with the spray, the noise it makes as you chamber the shell alerts the BG (for the good or bad!).

So confusing.


47 posted on 08/11/2010 5:50:16 AM PDT by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: marktwain

I had a bear try to break in one night. I think a 45 will only make a bear intruder mad. I am waiting on a 870 riot gun with a short barrel. I have a 45 Colt for two leg intruders.


48 posted on 08/11/2010 5:50:19 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: benewton

I’ll second that, the pistol whould be at your side no matter what ‘long gun’ one has.

I have a SPR AR that’s for ‘perimeter’ defense since I live on a large lot. Do you have a EOTech or Airpoint on your’s?


50 posted on 08/11/2010 5:51:34 AM PDT by ATLDiver
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