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Optics, Enhanced Riflescopes, Infrared and Night Vision
Calguns ^ | 9/14/10 | Vanity

Posted on 09/14/2010 4:30:01 PM PDT by STD

Dear FReepers,

Over the years, a vanity post listing favorite sidearms, long guns and hunting rifles has appearred on FR with predictable regularity. Considering the highly popular and enthusiastic responses, I'd like to learn more from the sophisticated shooters on this forum about optics that you might bet your life on.

Are many of you using ACOG, Trijicon, night vision, or infrared riflescopes? After seeing our Marines using the CQB sights that had various Bible verses listed upon them, I decided to learn more. I'm happy to report to you that our troops are getting wonderful optics packages, which are made right here in the good ol' USA.

I'd like to ask the more experienced shooters and veterans out there about the whole litany of new technologies which our soldiers are taking into battle.

What scopes do you find the most useful when hunting or doing any type of shooting? What products have enhanced your shooting capabilities the most?

What other small arms accessories do you find the most helpful in your self defense and tactical situations. Any details about slings, holsters, magazines and favorite hideout rigs would also be useful.

Recently, I purchased some wonderful AR mags from Magpul Industries. They replace metallic Colt mags that came new with a 20 year old marksman carbine. Have any of you used the double magazine configuration to make switching out an empty easier? Do you have much use from the magazine loops that Magpul makes to quickly remove spent magazines? Any helpful tips about making your ARs AKs M1A1's more user friendly and effective are most welcome.

Come on people, share the goodstuff with your FRiends at FR. Thanks in advance.

STD


TOPICS: Education; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; nightvision; optics; trijicon
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Make a list of your most prized optical accesories. Tell me why you can't live without them. God bless you and God bless America once again!
1 posted on 09/14/2010 4:30:02 PM PDT by STD
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To: STD

I have a TA01 ACOG site on my ‘sport utility rifle.’ I see why our forces are in love with them. Target acquisition is very fast and it has just enough magnification for identifying targets at range. Never needing to change batteries while have a VERY bright recticle is a huge advantage.


2 posted on 09/14/2010 4:43:01 PM PDT by ATLDiver
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To: STD

You’re not going to believe this but as I sit here I’m writing something and need exactly this kind of information, so I’ll be reading this with interest. Thanks for asking the question, now kindly stop reading my thoughts. ;)


3 posted on 09/14/2010 4:43:21 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown. -- written by Robert Towne)
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To: STD

My nighttime hunting is limited to going into the backyard with flashlight and shotgun to run off an occasional skunk. For deer, elk and coyotes, my preferred optics these days are Sightron Big Sky scopes, although I also like the Bushnell elite 4200s. Both fit into my budget. Both have lifetime warranties, though Sightron’s is best, the best in the business, I think. They are both completely weather proof, and their optics are of better quality than my eye can distinguish. The Sightron gets the edge in eye relief, though I have a 4200 on a 300 Win mag that does just fine. Someday, when there is nothing more important on my limited budget, I might breakdown and spend a few grand on night vision optics. A game camera might come a little sooner.


4 posted on 09/14/2010 4:50:21 PM PDT by pallis
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To: STD
I have an Aimpoint Comp ML2 mounted on my M-Forgery and I'm very, very pleased with it. The batteries last darn near forever in it. I've had mine for over 2 years and I'm still on the factory one.

Target acquisition with it is lightning fast and if you get the distance set right the scope itself when using both eyes and the dot just floats there right on your target.

However, I really wish I'd taken the hit and bought one of the ACOG's. They're a step further than the Aimpoint and IMO a superior system.

In Falluja our guys were scoring headshots at 400 yards using them. That's damned impressive.

I don't have enough experience with NV or IR type scopes to offer much I'm afraid. Sorry.

Suffice it to say that I'm perfectly comfortable using my Aimpoint inside of 200 yards or so. Beyond that I just don't have a lot of confidence in it yet.

5 posted on 09/14/2010 4:52:58 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: ATLDiver; neverdem; narses
Dear FReepers,

Over the years, a vanity post listing favorite sidearms, long guns and hunting rifles has appearred on FR with predictable regularity. Considering the highly popular and enthusiastic responses, I'd like to learn more from the sophisticated shooters on this forum about optics that you might bet your life on.

Are many of you using ACOG, Trijicon, night vision, or infrared riflescopes? After seeing our Marines using the CQB sights that had various Bible verses listed upon them, I decided to learn more. I'm happy to report to you that our troops are getting wonderful optics packages, which are made right here in the good ol’ USA.

I would like to politely remind all Freepers that Pelosi’s/Clinton's/Reno/Obama’s BATF/FBI/Homeland Insecurity also read all comments about all “gun and high-powered ammo” threads equally “regularly” - if not actually starting such threads to read all about “who” voluntarily boasts about “what” is bought “where” and “when”.

6 posted on 09/14/2010 5:10:17 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: STD

I have the a twelve-inch astronomical telescope mounted on a sixteen inch naval rifle. I shoot Cape Buffalo three counties away with it. I schedule road trips with a large rental truck to dress the carcass(es) and drive them home again.

I can afford to fire the thing about once every five years. The neighbors have just about forgiven me for the previous shot when the next one comes around, once again breaking every window in a mile radius and causing structural damage to the closest of my neighbor’s houses. I sound a klaxon five minutes before each shot, so that they know to take cover and protect their ears and eyes.

They think I’m eccentric. I can’t imagine why.


7 posted on 09/14/2010 5:10:42 PM PDT by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: STD

I hear that LaRue Tactical makes a high quality line of optics.


8 posted on 09/14/2010 5:12:21 PM PDT by Thunder90 (Fighting for truth and the American way... http://citizensfortruthandtheamericanway.blogspot.com/)
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To: ATLDiver
If I was going to spend 700+ on an optic, the ACOG would be a first choice. I've only had the chance to look through one, mounted to the shop owner's AR, but it was the clearest sight picture I've ever seen. The red triangle was just the right brightness, no matter the lighting, and the optics seemed sharper than my eyesight. It would be excellent for dusk and dawn hunting, too.

I'd like to get a look through one of the Trijicon Accupoint variable-power scopes, I'll bet they're excellent, too. Haven't read any online buyer's complaints about Trijicon . Five-star rated.

9 posted on 09/14/2010 5:12:59 PM PDT by FlyVet (")
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To: STD
If you want current and average issue-quality US military spec night vision, you're going to need to spend a minimum of $2800 on Gen 3+ hardware. That's the minimum price point right now and I don't even need to know what model number, manufacturer, or optic type.

If you're stumbling over that price, don't bother looking for a cheaper solution. You can get 'okay' night vision quality for about $1000 less, but it's not going to compare very favorably to Gen 3+ gear if you could test them side by side.

The relatively inexpensive $200 "night vision" models you might see advertised in hunting magazines and sporting goods stores are amusing but barely worth the money. They're enhanced Gen 1 models that are basically like looking at the world through a green glass Coca-Cola bottle illuminated by a match.

For $200 you could buy an awesome flashlight or crappy night vision.

My current favorite .223 Remington/5.56mm optic is a Trijicon TA31F. dual-illuminated with the 4MOA red chevron. Too bad they're still expensive. They should be lots cheaper now in my opinion.

10 posted on 09/14/2010 5:15:51 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: STD
I'm sporting an Eotech holo sight with a 2.5 flip to the side magnifier. My buis (back up iron sites) consists of Troy flip up rear and a PRI gas block flip up front absolute cowitnessed when up. This is a carbine configuration in .223 so anything past 300 yards is beyond what I consider the effective range of this configuration. I can't say I would change anything it terms of optics. It's what I consider a near perfect solution for it's purpose.

My next rifle is in it's planning stages but it will be an AR in 6.5 grendel (or .264LBC-AR) pushing it's operational effectiveness to a theoretical 800-1000yards. Tentative optics for this build will be a Nightforce 3.5-15x50mm Mil Dot with a Aimpoint micro on 45 degree offset mount. Iron site free. Other optic solutions worthy of mention would be a S&B short. The USO SN-4 is absolutely bullet proof. These are both top end scopes but worth it if you have the money.

Of course Trijicon has a good if not great solution for just about any AR you have in mind and they are a good value.

11 posted on 09/14/2010 5:17:08 PM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Thunder90
Larue makes some of the best optics mounts in the business but they don't make any optics themselves.
12 posted on 09/14/2010 5:26:05 PM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: STD
If price is no object, I would go thermal imaging scopes:

Price: $9,895

http://www.opticshq.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Optics&Product_Code=SS-TAM-14&Category_Code=Thermal_Imaging

13 posted on 09/14/2010 5:39:25 PM PDT by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Fabian Socialism.)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: STD
from Travis McGee...

Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 8:25:32 PM by Travis McGee

Okay, this wasn't a bench-by-bench comparison. But I did shoot one rifle last week at my range, and the other rifle today at a guest range. Both ranges are in Florida, if you care, on opposite coasts.

Both rifles were comparable M-4gerys. Top end or close to to top end. (Not junk.) Similar stocks, barrels, etc. I'm not going to mention the makes, because it's not the point of my essay tonight. Trust me, both are fine, fine rifles that are capable of greater accuracy than I ever will lend to them.

Okay. Rifle #1 sports a 1 power EOTech sight and a compensator/muzzle brake. The EOTech's 1X aiming point is a one minute of angle red dot, surrounded by a red circle. If you have read this far, you already know this.

Rifle #2 sports a 4X Trijicon ACOG and a flash suppressor. The ACOG's reticle is an orange triangle, the aiming point is the top tip. In both cases I was shooting from a bench and offhand at 100 yards at standard 100 yard NRA targets. These are about 2 feet square, with about a 10" black bullseye graduated with rings. I wasn't counting scores, but initial sighting-in groups, and then offhand effectiveness.

Impressions: the Trijicon is the finest sight I've ever shot on a combat carbine, period. Bar none. Better by far than my EOTech, Aimpoints (4 minute of angle red dots) and various other optical and electronic sights I have used. Off a rest, the Trijicon was shooting a sub 2" group, and I suck at bench rest shooting. I cannot get my EOTech to shoot that well, even though it has a 1 MOA red dot, mainly because my "over 50" eyes are starting to slip, maybe. The best bench groups I could get with the EOTech were about 4". The 4X Trijicon brought that 10" bull in sharp and clear. The triangle top reticle is like a surgeon's scalpel. Sub 2" bench groups were easy. Yet it's also bright and fast and "intuitive."

Bench rest verdict: Trijicon wins, hands down.

Standing, offhand. To get a little realism into the comparison, I shot identical NRA targets offhand, "semi-rapid fire." A combat carbine is about shooting with speed while running around and trying not to get shot. Bench rest performance is just step one. Standing offhand with both rifles/sights, I could really kill that 10" bull at 100 yards. The 1 MOA EOTech is easily centered. Offhand, both rifles and scopes were far better than the shooter, me. But to be truthful, semi-rapid fire standing, and going through entire 30 round mags to simulate realistic fatigue, I found it much easier to stay "all in the black" with the Trijicon. That 4X triangle is just so damn good. And it has built-in stadia steps under the triangle for 400 and 600 yards. I'd hate to be a Taliban with ten Marines chasing me with M-16 A3 mounted with Trijicons!

Offhand accuracy at 100 yards: Trijicon wins again.

Second discussion: flash suppressor vs. muzzle brake. One area where I must give credit to my own M-4gery with the EOTech is due to its brake/compensator. Yes, the 5.56mm "mouse gun" does not have much recoil. Yes, your ten year old little sister can shoot it without crying. BUT, my muzzle brake/compensator makes a fast rifle even faster. The Trijicon with the flash suppressor was more accurate, but just a bit slower than the EOTech with the brake. The Trijicon/flash suppressor would jump off of the target just enough between semi-rapid fire shots to force you to "re-acquire" the bull on the triangle.

But my EOTech with the compensator (no holes on the bottom, for zero "muzzle flip" means that my 1moa EOTech red dot stays dead-tits on the center of the bull between shots. If the ranges allowed true rapid fire, I'm sure that's when the brake would really shine. (No 'one second per shot rule'.) With the brake you can just nail your target all the way through a magazine, with both eyes open, never ever losing your point of aim even for a nanosecond.

But with no magnification, the EOTech just could not maximize the accuracy the way the Trijicon did.

My recommendation for the deadliest combo? Put a Trijicon on top of your M-4gery, and a muzzle brake/compensator on the front. Then you will be able to attack targets like a damn sewing machine! Who needs full auto, when you can just DRILL a target at 100 yards as fast as you can shoot?

15 posted on 09/14/2010 5:57:51 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: STD

Once I decide on the model AR-15 I want, it will be equipped with an EOTech Model 557 Holographic Sight.

http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=16213&TabID=548&cs=1

For ALL of my self-defense handguns.....
Practice “Point Shooting”!
You can do this dry.
Raise the weapon to any safe target, then assess how far off your sight view is.
Repeat, repeat, repeat!
Soon you will have 2 inch patterns at self-defense distance.
Much quicker than waiting to attain perfect sight view, when split seconds are critical!


16 posted on 09/14/2010 6:00:17 PM PDT by G Larry (I'd rather see the voters write off Obama!)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Riley
yep, sometimes you need to pull out the big gun.

Jimbo shooting the cannon Pictures, Images and Photos

18 posted on 09/14/2010 6:16:30 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (Our President-A modest man, who has much to be modest about.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Thanks for the info but my ‘sport utility rifle’ is actually a Crossman air-rifle. Those rats and squirrels deserve no quarter.


19 posted on 09/14/2010 6:50:16 PM PDT by ATLDiver
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To: FlyVet

Trijicon scopes are built like tanks. Well worth the price IMO


20 posted on 09/14/2010 6:51:29 PM PDT by ATLDiver
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To: Riley

Can I ride ‘shotgun’ next time out?


21 posted on 09/14/2010 6:53:13 PM PDT by STD (Witnessing Another Greek Tragedy as Our Chief Executive Implodes.)
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To: STD
Do you have much use from the magazine loops that Magpul makes to quickly remove spent magazines?

if they don't fall free when you push the button, there's a problem...

fix the problem, don't spend money on something that will get caught on stuff

22 posted on 09/14/2010 6:56:19 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Riley
tooo damn funny!!! next shot, invite them over...
23 posted on 09/14/2010 7:01:29 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: STD; Travis McGee

Travis did a thread on this topic including side-by-side use of two or three types. ACOG won.


24 posted on 09/14/2010 7:18:05 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Still Thinking
post #15
25 posted on 09/14/2010 7:25:46 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
26 posted on 09/15/2010 5:14:50 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Still Thinking
Comparing ACOG’s (a magnified optic) to Aimpoints and EOtech are an apples to oranges comparison. Now if the comparision had magnification on the Aimpoints and Eotech...that would be a more valid comparison.

Trijicon makes good scopes for the money, including the ACOG, but there is better glass out there.

27 posted on 09/15/2010 5:25:11 AM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Still Thinking; STD; Travis McGee

>>Travis did a thread on this topic including side-by-side use of two or three types. ACOG won.

I found it:

Fastest M-4gery in the East (Friday Night Gun Thread)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2537681/posts


28 posted on 09/15/2010 5:44:19 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: STD
Depends on the rifle.

On my AK it's iron.

On my M4 it's an Eotech 512.A65

On my Whitefeather (.308) and my AR-30 (.338LM) it's a Supersniper 10X42.

And on my M99 (.416Barret) it's a Nightforce 12-42X56 NXS with the NP-R1 reticle.

29 posted on 09/15/2010 5:50:33 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: Still Thinking; Chode; Joe Brower; Squantos; archy

If money is no object, Trijicon hands-down. I recently attended a 2 day 1200 round carbine course. All targets were from point blank (cardboard) to 50 yards (steel). My EOTech was outstanding, no complaints. But a fellow shooter with a 4X ACOG was just as fast and just as accurate AT CLOSE RANGE. (Where EOTechs and Aimpoints should be supreme.)

When the magnified scope is swinging, you use the glowing reticle like an Occluded Eye Gunsite. That is, both eyes open, the left eye sees the target, the right sees the reticle, your brain merges them. As you get on target the scope picture focuses. If I had $800 lying around I’d buy an ACOG today.


30 posted on 09/15/2010 6:15:31 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: FreedomPoster

bttt


31 posted on 09/15/2010 6:16:39 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: EdReform

Bookmark


32 posted on 09/15/2010 6:23:29 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Travis McGee

I really need to pull the trigger on that purchase. Though I do have a long-term-borrowed EOTech that I can use at the moment, for the near-term future, and I’m really wanting a nice pocket .380 right now.

Decisions, decisions.


33 posted on 09/15/2010 6:35:47 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: pallis
I know this is off topic, but I gotta ask reference your post: "My nighttime hunting is limited to going into the backyard with flashlight and shotgun to run off an occasional skunk. Um - that's gotta be tricky. How do you manage without making the ole homestead uninhabitable?
34 posted on 09/15/2010 6:42:38 AM PDT by Titan Magroyne (What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.)
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To: Riley
I have the a twelve-inch astronomical telescope mounted on a sixteen inch naval rifle. I shoot Cape Buffalo three counties away with it.

I want to party with you, FRiend. Did I mention I'm trained in adjusting indirect naval gunfire? Doesn't sound like you'll need any help in the direct fire department...

I love the way Freepers think.

35 posted on 09/15/2010 7:00:03 AM PDT by LTCJ (The Constitution; first, last, always.)
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To: ATLDiver
‘sport utility rifle.’

That is my favorite term for those rifles – it's descriptive and it most likely pisses off the eco-oppressive socialists, a win-win all around.

I just wanted so say that so that I would have a nice ping for this discussion.

36 posted on 09/15/2010 7:29:04 AM PDT by BerserkPatriot (There are no 1st Amendment rights without 2nd Amendment Rights)
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To: STD
I'd like to learn more from the sophisticated shooters on this forum about optics that you might bet your life on.

As far as AR optics, what's your budget look like?

37 posted on 09/15/2010 7:48:08 AM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: LTCJ

Redleg?

Thanks for your service.

And a big 2nd on the “I love the way Freepers think.”


38 posted on 09/15/2010 8:02:35 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: FreedomPoster

I have a ruger LCP and I have been very pleased with it.


39 posted on 09/15/2010 8:19:40 AM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Travis McGee

You think that a Trijicon ACOG is the best money can buy?


40 posted on 09/15/2010 8:22:37 AM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Travis McGee; Still Thinking; Chode; Joe Brower; Squantos; archy
Agreed -- ACOG. Ya buy quality, you never regret it. And the pain in the wallet will slowly subside... $;-)

Another bit about EOTechs and AimPoints -- in very bright sunlight, the red dot/reticle will be completely washed out. I was surprised to note this. The ACOG, with its ability to adjust contrast on the fly, doesn't have this problem, and it's a biggie, in my book.

Hey, you didn't have any probs with failures to feed on that test rifle #2, didja? Just askin'...

41 posted on 09/15/2010 8:58:11 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Titan Magroyne

Sometimes they make the old homestead uninhabitable before I venture out. The trick is to take a long shovel, and hurl them as far into the neighbor’s yard as possible.

In seriousness, the way to deal with skunks is to lure them into box traps that don’t allow any light in. Then the hard part is letting them out.

Another thing, my back yard is very large.


42 posted on 09/15/2010 9:29:41 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Durus

For a fast combat sight from point blank firefights to 700 yard “designated marksman” shots, yes. If there are better, I haven’t seen them. I’m sure there are some, but not that I’ve handled/shot.


43 posted on 09/15/2010 9:58:31 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Joe Brower

My only malf during 1200 rounds was self-inflicted, “checking” the chamber with the loaded mag still up hard. Can’t blame the rifle for that. Some rifles, as we have seen, didn’t like steel ammo. My bushmaster loves Wolf.


44 posted on 09/15/2010 10:00:16 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee
Actually, I was referring to the M4gery with the ACOG that you used in your tests, from which you gave your original analysis. You know, the one that was on loan from one of those uppity Florida FReepers. $;-)
45 posted on 09/15/2010 10:06:42 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: LTCJ

I too have experience both as a spotter and with the Camanche Board ... can I tag a long (I’ll bring the Beer)

TT


46 posted on 09/15/2010 11:12:32 AM PDT by TexasTransplant (I don't mind liberals... I hate liars...there just tends to be a high degree of overlap)
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; Squantos
Another bit about EOTechs and AimPoints -- in very bright sunlight, the red dot/reticle will be completely washed out.

Joe,

I remember you telling me this when we were at Cecil Webb.

I'm wondering if something isn't up with your particular AP, as I've never had that problem nor heard of anyone having that problem with Aimpoints - even in the harshest sunny environments. The US military used the Comp M2 for years in the Mideast.

I've used my personal Aimpoint (Comp M3, 4 MOA) on the most extreme sunny days in Florida and never had to go anywhere near the highest setting.

I shot a Comp C3, 2 MOA (not mine) extensively in the mideast this summer, which I set only 3 clicks up from the off position at mid-day during the summer months. No problem ever seeing the dot.

You might want to have your glass checked out if you're losing the dot on bright days. It's most certainly not supposed to do that... ever.

47 posted on 09/15/2010 11:13:53 AM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: Travis McGee
How about the S&B short dot, USO SN-4, Elcan Specter, Swarovski PV-1, or Leupold CQ/T? I would trade an ACOG for any of the these scopes.

Maybe not the CQ/T come to think of it.

48 posted on 09/15/2010 11:19:59 AM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
I take your point and thank you kindly, however as a counter point I need to POINT out (lol) that when it comes to stuff like that, we're on so many lists for ummmm lessee, some sort of pre-emptive action in case the proverbial balloon goes up, it's not even funny. How will they categorize us? Let me count the ways:

1. FREEPER (probably an conservative activist to start with -- and probably writes lots of letters to politicians and to the local paper against gun control so....)
2. Former military -- especially combat arms types (trained trigger puller) and a bonus if you're an NCO or commissioned officer like myself.
3. NRA member -- another bounty bonus if you're a life member and a double if you're also an NRA Instructor like myself (21+ years)
4. Holds a CCW Permit 'nother bonus and has had one in multiple states or valid in multiple states (via reciprocity) which would be me again.
5. Magazine subscriptions. Gun mags? (I subscribe to at least 3) Soldier of Fortune? Hunting? Field and Stream? Outdoorsman. Watch out...shades of Randy Weaver or that guy who ran the FBI ragged in NC after blowing up the abortion clinics, Eric Rudolph?
Well, you get the idea. TRUST me, I no longer worry that what I say here is going to put me on a "list." I'm already at the top of most of those lists which will also be cross referenced and flagged just as I've laid these out... and I'll bet they have a few more categorized lists I've not even considered. How many of YOU can count a few more?

49 posted on 09/15/2010 11:57:55 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Zombie Hunters: We make dead things deader.)
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To: STD; Travis McGee
I love my EOTach on the AR and my Shepherd Scope (3x10 range finding but calibrated specifically to 168gr Federal Gold Match JHP) on my M1A Supermatch. If I could AFFORD an ACOG I'd have several of those in 3x or 4x because I have several friends who like to play in the sand say they've gotten hits in excess of 600 meters where the max effective range on a 5.56mm is only listed at 460 meters. Those might be with the 6.8mm, but I can't remember. You can use the ACOG to range in artillery or mortars, too.

Night vision? I wish. In a pinch IR would work and you can get IR Chem Lights to mark areas off that only you or somebody with an IR viewer could see. IR has the shortcoming in that it is easily detectable as having a beam that can be drawn back to the sender so it would "paint" your location.

Even better would be THERMAL. There is a nifty little gadget I have seen advertised in several catalogs called a thermal game finder that is effective up to 300 meters on a cool evening for detecting large game (deer or man sized) in a woods environment, but may not work very well where there are a lot of targets in an urban area. Or where there will be buildings giving off heat to confuse things.

I'd also like a laser range finder. Those can be had for as little as $180 or so. Real high speed ones are found at up to $500 or more.

I agree with using night vision game finding cameras. Especially those that can be rigged up to a laptop for real time images. It might be possible to rig those up so that a remote detonator could...naaaaw I'm getting ahead of myself here!

50 posted on 09/15/2010 12:12:04 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Zombie Hunters: We make dead things deader.)
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