Posted on 10/16/2010 2:31:10 AM PDT by Palter
After hours of scouting the bone-colored badlands at Cedar Ridge Elk Ranch here, hunter David Regal took aim and fired twice from his .300 Winchester Magnum rifle. One shot killed a bull elk that weighed 700 pounds, wore a 12-point set of antlers, and cost the shooter $8,500.
"I like to get the best there is," says Mr. Regal, 72 years old, who owns an excavating business in Michigan. He drove 1,100 miles here with his brother in a motor home, towing his black Hummer behind.
Cedar Ridge is one of North Dakota's dozen or so private hunting ranches, enclosed by high fences and stocked with farm-raised elk and deer. Here, well-to-do hunters like Mr. Regal pay for a guaranteed shot at some of the most majestic prey in the West.
On Nov. 2, North Dakota voters will decide on a ballot initiative that would do away with these ranches. What's surprising is that the battle over Ballot Measure 2 doesn't pit hunters against their natural adversaries, animal-rights activists, who have long opposed the ultimate blood sport. Rather, the debate is dividing hunters themselves.
As private hunting ranches proliferate nationwide, hunters are grappling with what it means to participate in one of the oldest American sports. Fights like the one in North Dakota have broken out elsewhere, and national hunting groups are piling into the debate.
On one side are hunters who say fencing in wildlife for profit is unethical and shifts hunting from its populist American roots. They say the reserves are creating an elitist model reminiscent of "King's hunting" for the European gentry long ago.
Leading the effort to ban the ranches in North Dakota is Roger Kaseman, a lifelong hunter who once lived off the land for two years in a remote Wyoming cabin.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
“In my opinion this is not hunting”
It is what it is and people are willing to pay for it and others are willing to provide it. Why anybody would want to stop it is beyond me.
I think you misunderstand my post. I don’t want to see hunting condemned.
I get 2-3 doe licenses {and fill them} every year and we eat deer more than beef.
The last time I shot a buck {14 point} was back in the 90's.
No question that doe meat is more tender and tastes better than buck.
But, if the guy has the money and wants to go to an enclosed ranch, that's his choice.
Fine...don't. But if someone else in a similar situation can legally do so, there's no reason to begrudge him that right.
BTW, if you'd ever tasted elk meat, you wouldn't have to ask if people hunt them just for their racks. Elk is better than any beef I've ever tasted.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Hogwash. I have bird feeders in my backyard, and the wild birds who eat from them are not my pets. I have fed squirrels, ducks and geese in the park, and they are also not my pets.
Would I go on a canned hunt? I don't know yet...when I'm older and hopefully wealthier, and can't get out and stalk in the Owyhee County desert like I did today, I may. In the meantime, I don't begrudge anyone who can afford to go on a canned hunt the right to do so.
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If I put food out for birds or deer or whatever, and then after training them to eat their and not be scared of me I then proceed to shoot them one day ... that is NOT hunting, it's target practice.
Hunting involves searching. Shooting your dog while it's feeding at it's dish is ridiculous. If you want a trophy, go buy one.
BUT, that's just my opinion, and the government should certainly stay out of it.
Agreed, but the government isn't the underlying issue...the underlying issue is a bunch of "sportsman" who want to tell the rest of the sportsman in their state how to hunt.
Their time and money would be better spent making sure PETA and HSUS are penned up.
Purely speculation on my part, but I expect that they enhance the local populations, and here's why:
Because the populations on these ranches are "farm raised", I would assume the "farms" on which they are raised can support a higher population density than a natural, unmanaged habitat might support. This means that you have a larger number of elk in the same area, without the pressure of overpopulation that would occur if all of that same population were wild in an unmanaged habitat.
For example (and I'm just making the numbers up, I have no idea what the actual requirements are) suppose you have a 1,000 square mile area of habitat and one adult elk requires 5 square miles in the wild. Unmanaged, that area can support 200 elk. Now, if 250 sq. miles of that become managed habitat and can adequately support 2x the population density, you still have 750 sq. miles (unmanged) that will support 150 Elk + 250 sq miles that now supports 100 Elk rather than the 50 it supported prior to it becoming an "elk farm". This results in a total of 250 Elk, instead of the 200 which that same area originally supported. Of course there are a lot of other variables I'm not considering, but my gut feeling is that the managed "farmed" areas probably support considerably higher than 2X the population density. I only used that factor to present my case, but my gut feeling is that this potentially results in a net increase in the elk population in a given area without the same detrimental effects that would arise from a similarly proportioned population increase in a purely wild population.
Now, I would never participate in a "canned hunt," but, like many others here, I think that the property owners should be allowed to manage their property as they see fit. As long as the animals aren't being abused, and all efforts are being made to ensure clean, quick kills, I see no reason this should be made illegal.
Works for me. I guess I need to find a farmer that will let me “hunt” a cow in his stock pen.
That's exactly what they're doing. Person A has 8500 dollars he's will to spend for a big bull and person B has a big bull he's willing to sell for 8500 dollars. Everybody’s happy!
You pretty much hit it on the head.
Another thing to consider is what happens to the animals if the operation has to shut down. Do you tear down the fence and let them run free? What will that do to the balance of the area? What will that do to the local economy? Did you just put honest hard working people out of a job?
“Hunting involves searching.”
So if they don’t hunt in a manner you approve of they shouldn’t be allowed to hunt?
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
So, in your opinion, hunting from a tree stand or deer blind isn't "hunting", then? After all, in a stand or a blind, you're not searching, but sitting in a static location and waiting for the animals to come to you. I guess duck and turkey hunting, which involves staying concealed and calling the birds to you, isn't hunting either.
That's funny, because I recall seeing deer stands all over Texas when I was stationed at Hood for five years. In fact, every hunter I knew, be they Texans or soldiers from other states, hunted from deer stands, and didn't stalk at all. Needless to say, there are millions of hunters across the nation, and right there in Texas, who would disagree with you.
"Shooting your dog while it's feeding at it's dish is ridiculous."
No sir, your comparison is what's ridiculous. While many hunters may not care for canned hunts, I doubt any would compare them to shooting a pet dog feeding at its dish. If you were indeed a hunter, you'd know how downright silly that comparison is, so I seriously doubt you've ever hunted for anything, except bargains and parking spots.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
That being said...
Even in a blind or a tree stand you are having to “search” for the target and hope some wild animal just happens to walk by or fly in ect... Unless you are using a feeder, in which case you are just waiting for your trained animal to come get the food you put out so you can do target practice on your pet. You might as well teach your kids to shoot the hummingbirds at your feeder while your at it with a BB-gun, since it would be good practice for the bigger pets you will shoot later.
I am been hunting my entire life, by the way.
I know most hunters these days use feeders and stands, I am just personally opposed to them. In the crowd I hunt with many wont even use a gun, but use a bow instead to make it more of a challenge. To me it's more about the challenge, not the kill. But to each their own.
In my area, we get people coming from out of state. They do a lot of “Hunting”. They run the roads and keep track of the game wardens. They all have walkie talkies and help each other. They are causing trouble for the local hunters. One group tried to run my friend away from his own land.
Doesn't “Hunt” mean to pursue or seek?
However, the guy in the article who paid $8,500 for the canned hunt is 72 years old. There's no way he could do what I did yesterday...stalking mulies in the sage and aspens. I'm "only" 45, but I was beat when I got home, and my legs and back were sore as hell this morning. So, when I'm 72 and can't get out and bust brush anymore, I sure hope there will be an opportunity for me still to practice my marksmanship and bring home some tasty backstrap at the same time.
As far as the definition of "hunt" is concerned, you may be technically right, but as I mentioned to another FReeper, don't tell those who hunt from deer stands or turkey/duck blinds they're not hunting. That would be akin to telling a Nascar fan that auto racing isn't really a sport.
Arkansas has a hunter harassment law:
http://www.huntsab.org/hunter_harassment_laws.htm
I don't know how well these laws work, because I've never encountered someone trying to ruin my hunt or harass me. I hope it never happens, because my first reaction would be to beat the living snot out of anyone who did try to mess with my hunt.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Also, once again, comparing a cute little hummingbird to a game animal like an elk is just as silly as comparing the family dog to an elk. Neither hummingbirds nor pet dogs are game animals, and any creep who shoots either cannot be considered a hunter by any stretch of the imagination. Now, if you wanted to draw a parallel between a canned hunt and shooting, say, quail in my backyard, that would be a little closer to accurate. And yes, if I could legally shoot quail in my backyard (I live in the city limits), I would dine on quail fritters a lot more often.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Last fall I was somewhat physically able to sit on the ground leaning up against a tree all morning waiting. This fall I'll be setting up some type of chair to sit in and possibly a blind. Arthritis in the legs makes getting up off the ground rather difficult. By the time I aligned my body to shoot I would spook the game as well.
I'm member of a web site in my area that is for disabled hunters. A relative got me interested in hunting again and due to his disability needed someone in the woods with him and a fairly easy to gt to place to hunt so we decided on using my place. I thought about a food plot but there's plenty of natural food attractors near by. Last fall I walked up to the top of the ridge to hunt. This year I'll take a 4X4.
I know several disabled hunters who use well constructed blinds and have heaters in them as well. Really and truly I don't think blinds offer a significant advantage nor do tree stands which I have never been able to use due to balance issues.
I started out as a teen bow hunting. I was taught by my dad who was one of the first legal big game bow hunters in the state. Now I'm using a smoke pole because bursitis in my pull arm would not allow me to draw a bow back.
As for game farms? It's their land. There's a place a couple of counties from me that had a Trout Pond. Every year it was an annual event that people went to a place called The Cross-eyed Cricket just west of Knoxville to pay to catch trout. It was a great place for taking kids on a yearly fishing trap with a guaranteed catch. You paid by the pond so I heard. But I catch mine in the river by choice and have even hiked a day to trout fish in the mountains in my younger days.
I suppose my sitting in a chair on a rock bar at the river to many {purist LOL} Trout fishermen would not be considered trout fishing. They must not because quite a few just wade on in right beside me and go right on in the river througghthe middle of the pool being fished rather than going a few feet around up or downstream. Personally I was taught not to do that to where someone was fishing. LOL Yea I used to use chest waders but my legs won't take the abuse no more and I enjoy fishing from the bank and watching the wildlife go by. I'm not that old either just 53.
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