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1 posted on 02/08/2011 7:56:01 AM PST by MsLady
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To: MsLady

You’ll be in good company.

Obozo and Gore like solar power.


2 posted on 02/08/2011 7:59:15 AM PST by IbJensen (Grab your pitchforks!)
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To: MsLady

You’ve basically told us that solar panels will not work well for you.

If you are serious about personal electrical generation, can you tell me about the wind patterns, it sounds like that would be more practical for your area. That, industrial batteries, inverters and a back up generator can keep your lights on if the SHTF.


3 posted on 02/08/2011 8:00:17 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: MsLady

You answered your own question. You’ve seen the sun 2 or 3 times since the first of the year. Some sort of passive solar heat might add some but forget trying to generate electricity. The panels are very expensive, have low output and then you would need a huge bank of batteries. And you’d have to convert things over to DC.


4 posted on 02/08/2011 8:01:11 AM PST by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: MsLady
I would almost think this is satire. You have seen the sun for three times this year? That would be three days you could be generating electricity. And for how many hours? And how big would your batteries be? And how many acres are you going to have the solar panels on? With 200 inches of snow a year will you keep the panels clear so they can work? You say you are going to build the panels. Have you checked out the cost of the individual units, the wiring, the frames, the batteries, the connection to your house, etc., etc.

There are very good reasons why homeowners do not put in solar panels to provide them with power. Our neighbor put in panels to heat his hot water. It has saved him about 0.000001 percent on his electric bill. He even laughs about it now, except when he comments on the two thousand dollars he spent for the system.

He even put in a solar powered gate. He has to replace the battery every other year at a cost of $150.

My advice is simple. Wait another 50 years until they have improved the technology.

5 posted on 02/08/2011 8:03:16 AM PST by ProudFossil
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To: MsLady
The first thing you need to do is subscribe to Fine Homebuilding magazine.

They just had a special issue on energy-saving construction, including solar, super-insulation, groundwater heating, etc.

I have experience with solar construction, as our first house was passive solar.

Here's the deal, just my opinion:

Solar electric cells don't work very well. You can use them for backup but as a primary source they are dicey. Effective storage is the weak link.

Solar hot water heating is fairly effective, but an even better method is via ground water loop (geothermal). You'd have to dig deep, below the frost line, and you need electricity to pump and circulate the water, but you don't need to heat it.

The number one thing you need to do is super-insulate your house. That means digging into the south side of a hill (make sure your contractor understands groundwater and proper drainage around subsurface walls), no windows on the north, closets, garage, carport etc. on the north, few windows on east and west, and glass wall on the south - with movable insulated shutters to avoid heat loss at night. Then get the R-factor up as high as you possibly can - super thick walls with optimal insulation material, thermal and moisture barriers, triple-pane windows with nitrogen, double-doored entryway to keep warm air from escaping.

If the house is super-sealed you will need to provide for air exchange.

You need to read up on ALL of this before you build, and actually before you interview an architect so you can ask intelligent questions. Fine Homebuilding is the best place to start - Taunton Press, which publishes FH, also has books and links to well known architects & builders.

Good luck!

6 posted on 02/08/2011 8:05:22 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: MsLady
I worked for a contractor that installed them up in CT for a brief time. From what I saw you won't see a return on your investment for about 20 years and you won't be able to be free of the power company. It will reduce your bill but only when the sun is shining. Where I live, this winter we have issues with excessive snow weight collapsing roofs. Solar panels add considerable weight to a roof, and if they're covered with snow they're useless. This winter I would not want to have to climb up on the roof to clear the panels off.

I'm no engineer but I wouldn't waste the money on them, I'd much rather spend a lot less on an emergency generator that will run my house during the power outages we'll be experiencing because we refuse to build power plants.

7 posted on 02/08/2011 8:07:21 AM PST by YankeeReb
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To: MsLady

200 inches of snow per year means you’ll have to clean the panels each time it snows....(I have a friend going through this as we post)


8 posted on 02/08/2011 8:07:26 AM PST by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: MsLady

Solar panels work fine for low current low voltage applications. The technology has been improving, but it is still a very expensive power source and you need batteries to store the power.

Bright sunshine is necessary to work well.

After the power is stored in batteries, unless you re-appliance (convert the home to 12-V DC) you have huge power losses for even the simplest applications. 50% power loss in the typical inverter power supply, and those do not produce 60 cycle AC so some appliances don’t work on inverters.

I had friends who lived off the grid when I lived in NM. They did this in the early to mid 1980’s. BUT they used wood heat, had spartan appliances, lived in a passive solar adobe home and had a gasoline generator that they only used when they washed clothes.

For the average person, it is not a sensible solution. I could easily live off the grid, but my wife would never be happy with that spartan a lifestyle.


9 posted on 02/08/2011 8:07:38 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: MsLady

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html


11 posted on 02/08/2011 8:08:36 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: MsLady
Read about the solar panel farce in the Ithaca ny library. Basically that far north they're a waste of money.
12 posted on 02/08/2011 8:08:51 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: MsLady
If you are doing it yourself, consider a Tromb ( spelled correct ) wall i.e. passive solar heating, via wall with mass, either something like concrete or recycled bottles filled with water. I haven't done it, but a friend has, the solar powered attic vent fans. He had a dramatic reduction in cooling cost.

It maybe possible with little things like these to trim back your cost 20%.

Google lawn mowers that run on propane. A lot of tinkering going on to get some yard tools to run on something other than gasoline. Given the potential inroads with Shale Gas, maybe this is a place to look for opportunities...

The bigger question is water. I see you can get "Gray Water" systems ( i.e. taking shower water or washing machine water and using it for toliet flushing) from Canada for about $3,000, but I am not sure they are "certified" here in the States.

13 posted on 02/08/2011 8:10:51 AM PST by taildragger ((Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: MsLady

PV (solar electric) panels actually work better in Northern climates (when the sun shines) than southern locations due to thermal loss, etc. With todays technology they are only about 18% efficient.

You might consider thermal solar (hot water) were you can heat hot water and depending on how large of a system - your entire house. They are about 70% efficient.

In Michigan you might also consider geo - thermal ground loops which draw heat from the earth - I would think they are the most efficient in your location.


15 posted on 02/08/2011 8:11:41 AM PST by Sparky1776
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To: MsLady

Solar is only marginally effective here in Arizona where we get sunshine 360 days a year. Here a typical solar electrical setup would run in excess of $60,000 and take more than 10 years to start breaking even. In your neck of the woods doubtful.


16 posted on 02/08/2011 8:13:05 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: MsLady

Look for a source of coal that you can easily extract near buy. There are many small coal deposits that are too small to be commercially viable.

But these small deposits on the surface that can be mined easily will keep you warm and cozy for years.

Get a generator and some batteries you can charge. If you want a renewable, get a small battery charging windmill that you can buy for 400-800 dollars with self-installation.


17 posted on 02/08/2011 8:13:36 AM PST by dila813
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To: MsLady

As you know, sunlight is required to generate electricity in the form of low DC voltage from each cell. Cells are wired together in panels to provide higher voltage and current.

Now the DC Voltage must be converted to AC thru an inverter. And all this must power the house including lights, water wells, freezer, refrigerator, and what else.
You’re looking at kilowatts!

Now Harbor Freight is selling Solar Panel kits at $199 each. And this kit generates only 45 watts each! Just enough to power 1 lousy flourescent lamp.

Now you have to have enough sunlight each day ideally to provide charging power to the bank of batteries to power the house during dark periods. Being far North with about 200” of snow each year -— I have some doubts here.

You would have to be millionaires to consider Solar power at your location!

Now the previous poster here suggested looking at wind power. That might be an alternative to look at.

Good luck!


18 posted on 02/08/2011 8:14:04 AM PST by Sen Jack S. Fogbound
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To: MsLady

Photovoltaics will be almost useless for half the year. A passive solar house, if well designed and built will reduce your heating fuel bill by a lot. How much depends on the details of the house and the site.

How is your site for wind power? Windchargers are a maintenance problem but at a well suited site a manageable small unit can provide lights and electronics (leds and laptops, not incandescents and 48” TVs)

The most important factor in going off the grid is to manage your required loads. Unless you are planning for a huge installation, no washers, driers, air conditioning, dish washers, etc are going to work. Change all your lights to leds (expensive but long lived) and limit your other loads. Investigate 12v or 36v dc appliances to save the inefficiencies of dc to ac inverters.


20 posted on 02/08/2011 8:14:54 AM PST by Rifleman
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To: MsLady
There are two ways to work with solar energy, active solar panels that produce electricity and passive solar energy in the form of heat. Neither active nor passive are likely to make a home totally self sufficient solely without some additional, backup energy means...Well, unless you have lots of wheel barrows of $$$ to toss to it!

That being said, you can radically reduce your self reliance on other energy sources although this will require some lifestyle adaptations and not just loads of $$$.

To get a feel for the effect of location on solar energy in general and specifically on passive solar energy, I recommend a really outstanding book The Passive Solar Energy Book, Edward Mazria, Rodale Press, 1979. Yes, it's been in print a long time but it's the best I've found for the basics and walks you through the key design factors very well. I've adapted its information to industrial design, not just residential where I have also applied it.

In addition, take a look at expedition vehicle strategies for self sufficiency including solar. www.expeditionportal.com has very good information on this and a homeowner can pick up some useful tricks.

22 posted on 02/08/2011 8:15:40 AM PST by Hootowl99
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To: MsLady

Here in the north solar is generally fine for charging gadgets but not so great for any real power production. The problem is that current solar panels reflect far more energy than they collect and energy storage is still a problem.

Passive solar can be pretty effective for helping to heat. I built a porch and put in 5 sets of sliding glass and keep my houseplants out there all year. I also have a couple of southfacing 4x8 foot picture windows that collect heat during the day and keep the furnce at bay.

My neighbor uses geothermal to help heat his house. Even here in Michigan the earth is considerably warmer just a few feet down.


26 posted on 02/08/2011 8:25:51 AM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: MsLady
The best solar energy system I ever had was a skylight. Cheap, low maintenance, and it worked about half the day, which is about all you can expect from any solar energy device.

The second-best solar-based energy system I have owned was lots of well-insulated windows. Not quite as good as the skylight on a cost basis, but it helped on illumination and added a pleasant, light feeling to the house. I had roll-up blinds for privacy at night and they worked great.

So, keep it simple and cheap. Avoid that pricey, high-tech gimmickry of PV and even solar heating systems.

27 posted on 02/08/2011 8:27:17 AM PST by chimera
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To: MsLady
Unless you go photovoltaic, you will have problems that far North. Thermal panels need direct Sunlight to function properly.

Another thing to consider is, it sounds like you live in or near Alaska. The serious lack of Sun will be your biggest problem, but also, the steep angle of the Sun during Winter Months will severely lower the heat they will collect.

In addition to that, the hours the Sun shows during Winter won't help you much with both types of collector; P/T.

You might consider some other type of energy source. Like Wood boiler and turbine generator system. A good Turbine Electrical system will handle most of your residential energy needs during all types of weather. You can also build one at a fraction of the cost of a Solar system. (You can build the boiler yourself.)

31 posted on 02/08/2011 8:29:29 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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