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To: edge919

Okay, I have spent enough time on this issue.
I read the entire transcript and what you fail to realize apparently is that the entire INTENT of the decision was to determine if a woman can vote or not. To claim anything else is just digging and stretching too far. By the courts own admission:

“For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens. “

All they were interested in was the suffrage issue and not the determination of what was a natural born or native born. They really didn’t care. For them, the most part of the decision was stating that citizens are citizens. They were deciding if males or females were separate in their rights to vote.

TO illustrate that they say:

These provisions thus enacted have, in substance, been retained in all the naturalization laws adopted since. In 1855, however, the last provision was somewhat extended, and all persons theretofore born or thereafter to be born out of the limits of the jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were, or should be at the time of their birth, citizens of the United States, were declared to be citizens

Yet that is the exact phrase of a natural born citizen.
They are ambiguous on making any determination and offer several different excerpts to make the case that it doesn’t matter in this case.

Again, as you i am sure read, but did not quote. The court stated what it’s INTENT was in it’s decision.

“The Constitution does not define the privileges and immunities of citizens. For that definition we must look elsewhere. In this case we need not determine what they are, but only whether suffrage is necessarily one of them. “

Again: “In this case we need not determine what they are, but only whether suffrage is necessarily one of them.”

They are telling you a second time that they are not making any decision on privileges, immunities or even defining. Just making a decision on suffrage.

As for the last paragraph, you need to take the entire quote in context of what they are saying. Without it you miss the intent.

“Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides6 that ‘no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,’7 and that Congress shall have power ‘to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.’ Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization. “

It is a good if you want to piecemeal your argument that all citizens are equal, native are the same as natural born. But as i said it is intentionally ambiguous. They did not want to make a decision on what a natural born citizen was nor did they want to make a decision on what a native citizen was. They wanted to illustrate that it didn’t matter in the context of what they were deciding .. that is suffrage.

So I don;t know exactly what your point is, or what you are deriving from this. But as a case law for an argument in court it wouldn’t weigh very heavily because of the ambiguity or the fact that they claim in two separate instances that they are NOT deciding these matters. They are only concerned with Suffrage.

Now please .. if you want to continue this. I am okay with it. But state your position clearly, I don’t need or have the time to spend my days looking up case law.
A bit more than quoting a few lines from a decision would be appreciated. As in how you think it applies or why it does not.

Again, I urge you to look at the intent of the decisions. When a court says it is NOT deciding what is or is not a natural born citizen, it really doesn’t help clarify anything.

So again, what is your point in this please?


227 posted on 02/17/2011 9:59:37 AM PST by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Munz
I read the entire transcript and what you fail to realize apparently is that the entire INTENT of the decision was to determine if a woman can vote or not.

I haven't said otherwise. I showed you specific quotes where Virginia Minor claimed a right to vote based upon being a 14th amendment citizen and the court rejected this claim. I also showed where the majority justice in a case more than 20 years later affirmed this same thing. This IS the Supreme Court's definition of natural born citizen: "all children born in the country to parents who were its citizens." Obama does not meet this definition. What part of this do you not understand?? You respond with quantity rather than quality. It just looks like you're desperately trying to deny the obvious direct quotes I provided by typing up a copious pile of cattle excrement.

228 posted on 02/17/2011 10:11:25 AM PST by edge919
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