Posted on 04/08/2011 1:19:41 PM PDT by decimon
Ping
Im confused.
Lecithin supplements REDUCE blood cholesterol levels.
fatty fish such as salmon and sardines also reduce blood cholesterol.
It increases levels , not decreases them.
That raises the question about whether current “probiotic” supplements and yogurt generate the bad stuff or displace the bacteria that do.
Yes, an excess of choline/lecithin being bad is how I'm seeing this.
Gotta go get more sardines. Sardines in mustard sauce! Yum! Not sarcasm.
Doesn't seem that they yet have a fix on that. I guess the message is to not overdue the lecithin/choline supplements.
I know that’s what it says. I’m saying that is opposite of conventional wisdom
lecithin SUPPLEMENTS (hello as in vitamins?) are proven to LOWER blood cholesterol.
I probably eat ten to twenty bucks worth of sardines a week. I get plain in olive oil or in water and use my own horseradish mustard on them.
This article doesn’t mention cholesterol. Maybe cholesterol levels are not a factor in this.
The working hypothesis here is that certain types of gut flora metabolizes lecithin into trimethylamine N-oxide, which in mice was associated with arterial plaque formation.
Choline and betaine are also metabolites of lecithin. “Excess” levels of serum choline “promotes” plaque formation (At tleat according to this writer).
Lecithin and choline are commonly used as feed additives for cattle, poultry and fish because they purportedly promote rapid muscle growth, but “[W]hether muscle from such livestock have higher levels of these compounds remains unknown.” Right...
Humans often use lecthin and choline as dietary supplements. How it is produced - God only knows. Can dietary supplements give you “excessive” serum choline levels promoting plaque formation - probably so is the inference I get from this article. Does lecithin as a dietary supplement keep trimethylamine N-oxide producing gut flora happy and you full of arterial plaques - seems logical to me.
Thus, “juiced up” livestock and dietary supplements may be “juicing up” gut flora that increase serum trimethylamine N-oxide and serum choline that “produce” arterial plaques. Not yet marketed probiotics, such as some type of yougurt, may change the gut flora to reduce trimethylamine N-oxide production.
Solution today: stay away from “juiced up” meat and get your vitamins (lecithin and choline) in a naturally occurring form while they are still contained in plants and animals, the less cooked the better - Quarter Pounders seven days a week will not keep you healthy and and vitamin pills ontop of that might make you worse than no vitamins at all. There is no free lunch, and that includes dietary supplements.
Excellent summary! Thanks so much.
The working hypothesis here is that certain types of gut flora metabolizes lecithin into choline and then into trimethylamine N-oxide, which in mice was associated with arterial plaque formation. Additionally, serum choline is associated with arterial plaque formation.
So lethicin and choline supplements may reduce cholesterol in some people, but those same people nevertheless remmain at risk for arterial plaques, depending upon the type of gut flora that inhabits them. Cholesterol levels are not the be all and end all to prevent plaque formation.
Specially designed yogurt may reduct the amount (good health) of the gut flora that likely is flourishing on excessive levels of artificially introduced (human or animal dietrary supplements) lecithin and choline.
where do you propose we get meat that is not “juiced up”? There’s not enough wild meat to feed all the people
Our health is quantified by insurance companies by our bloodwork and our body mass index. Therefore, regardless whether lecithin supplements increase plaque while decreasing cholesterol levels, lecithin is a benefit to our insurance rates.
I suppose next you will say cholesterol lowering drugs have no effect on plaque buildups either?
It's not the lecithin/choline that's the problem. It's the particular bugs in the gut that break it down that are. The correlation is between disease and blood concentration of TMAO(trimethylamineoxide), which is a breakdown product resulting from bug metabolism.
The inconsistent results of studies showing the effects of lecithin on cholesterol and HDL may be do to the lack of control of gut bugs in the lecithin effect studies.
If it matters to you for this particular issue, go with meats labeled “no hormones” or “no antibiotics”
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Meat_&_Poultry_Labeling_Terms/index.asp
or with organics
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5082653&acct=noprulemaking
Choose wild caught fish, if you don’t care about mercury, because farmed fish have been given “feed”
Choose locally produced meats, wherever possible. Do not ever buy “factory” meats.
>>>I suppose next you will say cholesterol lowering drugs have no effect on plaque buildups either?<<<
Hey, I’m just interpreting what the article says. If you are happy with what the “consensus” about what drugs to take, that’s fine too. But I don’t believe in global warming and I remember that a consensus view put Gallileo under house arrest. Nobody has all the answers.
I'm reading this as saying it is the amount of choline determining what the gut bugs do with it.
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