Beware the Unveiling of the Rossi E-Cat 1 MW Reactor in October

Liberty1970 ^ | August 1, 2011 | Liberty1970

[Liberty1970]

Maybe if we can put together some good suggestions on how Defkalion should enable independent verification of the 1 MW reactor we can pass this along to them. Ideas?

[dirtboy]

Maybe if we can put together some good suggestions on how Defkalion should enable independent verification of the 1 MW reactor we can pass this along to them. Ideas?

My gut feeling is that if this were a truly viable and real system, they wouldn't need suggestions on how to verify it. Good science operates in the open.

[Liberty1970]

I'm pretty ignorant regarding business deals, but can anyone more knowledgeable in such matters comment on the reports about Defkalion offering a set franchise price for E-cat production rights by country? Does that make any kind of sense?

Also, does anyone have a source for the report that Defkalion is selling franchises? All I can find right now are blogs and discussion boards mentioning it, nothing official. I hope I'm not muddling any facts.

[PapaBear3625]

I would have liked Rossi to supply a few E-Cats to independent scientists for validation. Give them each an E-Cat in a sealed, locked "black box" with a power lead in, water input pipe, and steam output pipe, and let them play with it.

The lack of openness is starting to get to me.

[cripplecreek]

So far all its produced are promises and hype.

[Red Badger]

My guess is that the ‘secrecy’ is because the ‘technology’ is so simple and could be built in anybodies’ garage with off-the-shelf- parts. The Chinese are going to steal it, that’s a given. The rest of the world will makes them on their own using whatever scheme they can to copy it. The Rossi Group wants to make as much money as they possibly can as fast as they can before the design gets viral on the internet and every redneck on earth has one in their back yard.................

[runninglips]

Why not just wait until the thing is unveiled? It will either “fly” or it will not. What is 40 million Euros to a person with the money to spend? I know I know, it is their own money, and if they fork it over without absolutely KNOWING what they are buying, it is their problem.

[Liberty1970]

I largely agree, but what I'm hoping to avoid is something where Defkalion offers "X, Y and Z" as evidence, and skeptics say "But what we really wanted to see is A, B and C!" for proof. If there is a sort of shared concensus amongst the various parties of what steps need to be taken then this can be avoided.

Of course, once an E-cat finally ships to a private customer none of this will be necessary. The problem is with any financial risks being born until that point.

[marktwain]

Rossi has repeatedly said that he is not interested in verification. The only verification that he says is needed, is the market. Of course, that only applies if his customers are not required to pay before they can independently confirm that the device does what it says.

There have been lots of scams where even ordinary goods were promised for upfront money, only to have the schemers abscond with the funds before anything was delivered.

[apillar]

I’ve been following this story from a strictly non-scientific prospective (I’m an Accountant, and only took 1 college level course in general chemistry). All I can say is if this guy is a con-artist he must be a dang good one to have to have fooled governments, companies, and many in the scientific establishment and to what end? He must surely know that if this turns out be a fraud, he’s going to be run out of town on a rail and probably end up in the big house for fraud if he accepts all this money on something he knows does not work.

[mad_as_he$$]

In my career I have been involved in several negotiations regarding country licensing rights. Mostly it is a legal protection thing and a funding generator. I would be doing the same as Rossi were I in his position. BTW $40m is chump change if this thing works.

[AndyJackson]

The international physics community is on record that not only does this not work, it could never work. Moreover, it especially cannot work in the manner in which these guys claim.

The more interesting question is nothing about this flimflammery of cold-fusionism, but rather why people, and Americans in particular, are so eager to be taken in by charlattans. I really want to know. Is American self-esteem so low that we feel flattered to become the marks of these montebanks? Given the hopelessness of our policital and economic mess, I could understand that.

[marktwain]

In recent weeks we've been hearing about how Defkalion is asking for $40 million euros for exclusive manufacturing rights in each country from franchise purchasers.

An advantage of such a scheme is that if the E-cat doesn't work, it is not clear that the purchasers have been defrauded. They would still have exclusive manufacturing rights. The rights would simply be for a device that doesn't work. It would all depend on how the contract were worded. An important detail would be what court had jurisdiction and who the enforcing authority would be.

You only have to look at software contracts to see that it is easy to write a contract which completely protects the seller and leaves the buyer with no effective recourse.

[count-your-change]

If an independent tester could have one of the devices to set up and test in public that might help convince investors. That would be a test that was completely under control of someone other than the inventor or his “cheerleading squad”.

It hardly will do for Rossi to point to a black box and say there's eleven different herbs and spices in there doing things no one can really understand or explain. For forty million bucks I'd want to not only look at the horse's mouth but use a proctoscope on him.

Rossi or anyone else could watch the tests but without interference.

David Copperfield, the illusionist, could fool Nobel winners as easily as he does the rest of us.

[marktwain]

The international physics community is on record that not only does this not work, it could never work. Moreover, it especially cannot work in the manner in which these guys claim. The more interesting question is nothing about this flimflammery of cold-fusionism, but rather why people, and Americans in particular, are so eager to be taken in by charlattans. I really want to know. Is American self-esteem so low that we feel flattered to become the marks of these montebanks? Given the hopelessness of our policital and economic mess, I could understand that.

My best guess is that the E-cat is a scam. However argueing that there is a "consensus" that something cannot work is rather risky.

It reminds me of Al Gore and the anthropogenic global warming scandal. Eminent scientists "proved" that heavier than air aircraft were impossible, that space flight was impossible, that nuclear reactions were not usable for any practical purpose.

Americans have had lots of experience where "experts" who say things are impossible are proved wrong.

[cripplecreek]

When the scam falls apart there will be conspiracy theories about governments and oil companies keeping this great wonder from the people.

[Liberty1970]

Thanks for the positive feedback.

[Liberty1970]

I saw your comment the other day that the E-cat violated 'every principle of physics' (or something to that effect). I've corresponded with several Ph.D. physicists who have also been fairly dismissive of it. But then on the flip side there are a number of physicists who do support it to at least some degree, such as Drs. Piantelli, Levi, Focardi, Stremmenos, Essen, Kullander and Josephson. Not to mention the rest of the LENR community.

I haven't heard that the E-cat violates the law of gravity, for example, so your comment struck me as over-the-top. Granted it doesn't fit with existing orthodox theories, but science would never advance if it became fossilized and results and theories challenging existing models were never allowed to be considered. So I have to be more open-minded than that.

[Liberty1970]

An advantage of such a scheme is that if the E-cat doesn't work, it is not clear that the purchasers have been defrauded.

That's a very, very interesting and insightful observation. Hmmm...

[B4Ranch]

Think of it as a car. No, that is not the way to sell franchises because of the varying population counts. Put one worldwide price on the unit and shove it out the door. The wealthiest people will be the first to buy, then five years later when it needs to be refueled your second hand market will appear. The wealthiest people will then be buying the newer model and selling their old model.

Why would I give you $10M to sell to a country that only has 5M people in it when I can give you the same 5M to sell in a country that has 500M?

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/