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Beware the Unveiling of the Rossi E-Cat 1 MW Reactor in October
Liberty1970 ^ | August 1, 2011 | Liberty1970

Posted on 08/01/2011 7:01:31 AM PDT by Liberty1970

Beware the Unveiling of the 1 MW Reactor in October

For months those of us watching the E-Cat story unfold have been eagerly looking forward to the last week in October and the unveiling of the first 1 megawatt thermal reactor at Defkalion's factory in Greece. Andrea Rossi has steadfastly refused to provide more public evidence for the reality of the E-cat, pointing instead to the 1 MW reactor operation as the proof everyone should be waiting for.

Skeptics and believers alike have cited this date as well, indicating that we will all know by the end of October whether the world has changed and the Energy Catalyzer is for real.

Or will we?

Rossi, in recent communications, has indicated that some 'elite' American scientists will be at the unveiling of the 1 MW reactor, as well as physicists Dr. Brian Josephson (Nobel laureate), Drs. Kullander and Essen of Sweden, and Dr. Levi. Once concern I have here is that all those named have previously given public statements of support for the E-cat. Not that I expect Rossi to invite his enemies or competitors, but it would be nice to know there are some scientists coming who are not part of Rossi's cheerleading squad, as it were.

Moreover, this event simply cannot be a repeat of the frustrating public demonstrations given earlier this year, which provide evidence but not proof of the operation of the E-Cat. I've frequently heard people comment that you 'can't fake a 1 MW reactor' as if that scale of operation simply can't be performed with hidden, mundane, power generation.

Hogwash. Given the scope of this whole story and the hundreds of millions of dollars already on the table, it would be a simple thing to go to the trouble of pumping 1 MW of electricity into the array of 330 E-Cats with hidden power lines and convert it to thermal energy using resistance heaters embedded in the false E-Cat devices. (I don't think batteries or other on-board power generation would be sufficient for this stage of the scam, if scam it is.)

In recent weeks we've been hearing about how Defkalion is asking for $40 million euros for exclusive manufacturing rights in each country from franchise purchasers. This strikes me as bizarre. Why should I pay as much to supply Luxembourg or Albania as someone else pays for the U.S. or Japan? Why not auction off the franchises to the highest bidder once proof has been established? (That's probably a naive way to go about it too, but strikes me as better than one flat price as I've currently heard.)

The $40 million price tag raises a red flag for me. I hope I'm wrong, but I wonder how many people are willing to take the risk and hand over that kind of money now, or will jump to do so as soon as they see the 1 MW reactor running in October. If this is a scam, that's where the big money is.

So that's my fear - that the 1 MW reactor will turn out to be a fake, but one that pulls in hundreds of millions of euros in the first few weeks before things start to really fall apart as promised shipments of E-cats to independent sources (outside of Rossi's control at last) fail to materialize. My message to Rossi and the folks at Defkalion is: you've still got more than two months. Use it to plan out how you intend to PROVE to us, your customer base and the world at large, that the E-cat is real.

Don't have the E-cat array hidden or embedded in conrete - have it up in as accessible a configuration as possible. Every hose, every power line, anything that could carry a wire should be accessible for inspection and independent metering as applicable. Let the scientists (including some heretofore uncommitted ones) and journals have full access to the setup (as much as safety allows). Have some single E-cats also set up, operational and available for inspection and metering. Let the visitors bring their own equipment for inspection and metering. I understand you need to keep some trade secrets, but find ways to let independent researchers prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the E-cat is doing what you say it is doing, without any hidden power sources.

Engage the honest skeptics now to understand what we'd like to see, what we need to see, to really satisfy everyone. Please.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Conspiracy; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: canr; cmns; coldfusion; defkalion; ecat; lenr; rossi; skeptic
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Maybe if we can put together some good suggestions on how Defkalion should enable independent verification of the 1 MW reactor we can pass this along to them. Ideas?
1 posted on 08/01/2011 7:01:37 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: Liberty1970
Maybe if we can put together some good suggestions on how Defkalion should enable independent verification of the 1 MW reactor we can pass this along to them. Ideas?

My gut feeling is that if this were a truly viable and real system, they wouldn't need suggestions on how to verify it. Good science operates in the open.

2 posted on 08/01/2011 7:05:35 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Liberty1970; B4Ranch; Kevmo
I'm pretty ignorant regarding business deals, but can anyone more knowledgeable in such matters comment on the reports about Defkalion offering a set franchise price for E-cat production rights by country? Does that make any kind of sense?

Also, does anyone have a source for the report that Defkalion is selling franchises? All I can find right now are blogs and discussion boards mentioning it, nothing official. I hope I'm not muddling any facts.

3 posted on 08/01/2011 7:07:35 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970
I would have liked Rossi to supply a few E-Cats to independent scientists for validation. Give them each an E-Cat in a sealed, locked "black box" with a power lead in, water input pipe, and steam output pipe, and let them play with it.

The lack of openness is starting to get to me.

4 posted on 08/01/2011 7:09:57 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: dirtboy

So far all its produced are promises and hype.


5 posted on 08/01/2011 7:10:40 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Liberty1970

My guess is that the ‘secrecy’ is because the ‘technology’ is so simple and could be built in anybodies’ garage with off-the-shelf- parts. The Chinese are going to steal it, that’s a given. The rest of the world will makes them on their own using whatever scheme they can to copy it. The Rossi Group wants to make as much money as they possibly can as fast as they can before the design gets viral on the internet and every redneck on earth has one in their back yard.................


6 posted on 08/01/2011 7:12:24 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: Liberty1970

Why not just wait until the thing is unveiled? It will either “fly” or it will not. What is 40 million Euros to a person with the money to spend? I know I know, it is their own money, and if they fork it over without absolutely KNOWING what they are buying, it is their problem.


7 posted on 08/01/2011 7:12:31 AM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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To: dirtboy
I largely agree, but what I'm hoping to avoid is something where Defkalion offers "X, Y and Z" as evidence, and skeptics say "But what we really wanted to see is A, B and C!" for proof. If there is a sort of shared concensus amongst the various parties of what steps need to be taken then this can be avoided.

Of course, once an E-cat finally ships to a private customer none of this will be necessary. The problem is with any financial risks being born until that point.

8 posted on 08/01/2011 7:12:38 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970
Rossi has repeatedly said that he is not interested in verification. The only verification that he says is needed, is the market. Of course, that only applies if his customers are not required to pay before they can independently confirm that the device does what it says.

There have been lots of scams where even ordinary goods were promised for upfront money, only to have the schemers abscond with the funds before anything was delivered.

9 posted on 08/01/2011 7:14:10 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Liberty1970

I’ve been following this story from a strictly non-scientific prospective (I’m an Accountant, and only took 1 college level course in general chemistry). All I can say is if this guy is a con-artist he must be a dang good one to have to have fooled governments, companies, and many in the scientific establishment and to what end? He must surely know that if this turns out be a fraud, he’s going to be run out of town on a rail and probably end up in the big house for fraud if he accepts all this money on something he knows does not work.


10 posted on 08/01/2011 7:15:47 AM PDT by apillar
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To: Liberty1970
In my career I have been involved in several negotiations regarding country licensing rights. Mostly it is a legal protection thing and a funding generator. I would be doing the same as Rossi were I in his position. BTW $40m is chump change if this thing works.
11 posted on 08/01/2011 7:18:44 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: cripplecreek
The international physics community is on record that not only does this not work, it could never work. Moreover, it especially cannot work in the manner in which these guys claim.

The more interesting question is nothing about this flimflammery of cold-fusionism, but rather why people, and Americans in particular, are so eager to be taken in by charlattans. I really want to know. Is American self-esteem so low that we feel flattered to become the marks of these montebanks? Given the hopelessness of our policital and economic mess, I could understand that.

12 posted on 08/01/2011 7:20:02 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: Liberty1970
In recent weeks we've been hearing about how Defkalion is asking for $40 million euros for exclusive manufacturing rights in each country from franchise purchasers.

An advantage of such a scheme is that if the E-cat doesn't work, it is not clear that the purchasers have been defrauded. They would still have exclusive manufacturing rights. The rights would simply be for a device that doesn't work. It would all depend on how the contract were worded. An important detail would be what court had jurisdiction and who the enforcing authority would be.

You only have to look at software contracts to see that it is easy to write a contract which completely protects the seller and leaves the buyer with no effective recourse.

13 posted on 08/01/2011 7:20:31 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Liberty1970
If an independent tester could have one of the devices to set up and test in public that might help convince investors. That would be a test that was completely under control of someone other than the inventor or his “cheerleading squad”.

It hardly will do for Rossi to point to a black box and say there's eleven different herbs and spices in there doing things no one can really understand or explain. For forty million bucks I'd want to not only look at the horse's mouth but use a proctoscope on him.

Rossi or anyone else could watch the tests but without interference.

David Copperfield, the illusionist, could fool Nobel winners as easily as he does the rest of us.

14 posted on 08/01/2011 7:25:35 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: AndyJackson
The international physics community is on record that not only does this not work, it could never work. Moreover, it especially cannot work in the manner in which these guys claim. The more interesting question is nothing about this flimflammery of cold-fusionism, but rather why people, and Americans in particular, are so eager to be taken in by charlattans. I really want to know. Is American self-esteem so low that we feel flattered to become the marks of these montebanks? Given the hopelessness of our policital and economic mess, I could understand that.

My best guess is that the E-cat is a scam. However argueing that there is a "consensus" that something cannot work is rather risky.

It reminds me of Al Gore and the anthropogenic global warming scandal. Eminent scientists "proved" that heavier than air aircraft were impossible, that space flight was impossible, that nuclear reactions were not usable for any practical purpose.

Americans have had lots of experience where "experts" who say things are impossible are proved wrong.

15 posted on 08/01/2011 7:27:33 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: AndyJackson

When the scam falls apart there will be conspiracy theories about governments and oil companies keeping this great wonder from the people.


16 posted on 08/01/2011 7:32:52 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: mad_as_he$$

Thanks for the positive feedback.


17 posted on 08/01/2011 7:44:23 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: AndyJackson
I saw your comment the other day that the E-cat violated 'every principle of physics' (or something to that effect). I've corresponded with several Ph.D. physicists who have also been fairly dismissive of it. But then on the flip side there are a number of physicists who do support it to at least some degree, such as Drs. Piantelli, Levi, Focardi, Stremmenos, Essen, Kullander and Josephson. Not to mention the rest of the LENR community.

I haven't heard that the E-cat violates the law of gravity, for example, so your comment struck me as over-the-top. Granted it doesn't fit with existing orthodox theories, but science would never advance if it became fossilized and results and theories challenging existing models were never allowed to be considered. So I have to be more open-minded than that.

18 posted on 08/01/2011 7:49:18 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: marktwain
An advantage of such a scheme is that if the E-cat doesn't work, it is not clear that the purchasers have been defrauded.

That's a very, very interesting and insightful observation. Hmmm...

19 posted on 08/01/2011 7:50:25 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970

Think of it as a car. No, that is not the way to sell franchises because of the varying population counts. Put one worldwide price on the unit and shove it out the door. The wealthiest people will be the first to buy, then five years later when it needs to be refueled your second hand market will appear. The wealthiest people will then be buying the newer model and selling their old model.

Why would I give you $10M to sell to a country that only has 5M people in it when I can give you the same 5M to sell in a country that has 500M?

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/


20 posted on 08/01/2011 7:54:59 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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