Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman make their cases for ending the War on Drugs (YouTube videos)

YouTube | Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman

[10thAmendmentGuy]

Thomas Sowell on the War on Drugs

Milton Friedman on the War on Drugs

[Gunslingr3]

I would poison the drugs like alcohol was poisoned during prohibition

Yet that didn't work, prohibition was eventually repealed because all it did was empower the state and gangsters at the expense of individual rights and safety.

You seek to legislate appetites, instead of transgressions of one person against another. Failure is the only outcome of such a policy, and sadly the failure is clarion for greater powers to the government, more profits to the gangsters, and further curtailing of individual rights.

The 'war' on drugs destroys more lives than the drugs themselves.

[Steel Wolf]

i think you are nuts.

Uh huh. Thanks for enlightening response, there, Confucius.

[muawiyah]

No idea why you'd shoot the cops. Easy enough to get their names, find out where they live, see if they have relatives ~ then plan and carry out some horrible atrocity.

Sure, they'll find you pretty quick but think of the Hero Citizen status you'll earn. (/s)

[10thAmendmentGuy]

Judging from your profile, you worked for the government for quite a bit of your life, so your opinion is suspect. Excluding the military and the VA, most of the government is incredibly corrupt and worthless. That includes the Postal Service, one of the few constitutional agencies.

[Christian Engineer Mass]

“I want to see all drugs legalized”

Wow. Strike 1.

“You want a shot at getting some black votes for conservative policies and politicians? How about coming out against the drug war?”

LOL. You’re saying “blacks like drugs so legalize drugs then they’ll vote for you”? You do need to learn to be more pragmatic. Life isn’t like that.

[muawiyah]

The alkies usually still have their teeth ~ the meth mammas don't.

it's a really big difference

[MileHi]

Blah blah, you would like hell blabbermouth.

[10thAmendmentGuy]

No idea why you'd shoot the cops.

Self-defense. I have a natural right to self-defense and we have something called a Second Amendment in this country. While New York State does not have a castle doctrine, in most states you are allowed to shoot those who break into your property to do you harm. Please tell me you're not one of the "police are our friends, they can do no wrong" type of people.

A police officer that would shoot a friendly dog that is running away from them, on PRIVATE property no less, is a threat to everyone in society. Many violent criminals, including serial murderers, found it fun to torture and kill animals. Ted Bundy found it entertaining to impersonate authority figures and do horrible things to people. Was he simply emulating some of those that wear the badge?

[LearsFool]

Yes, I just watched that discussion between Stossel and Coulter. Her first argument was well-made, but she seemed unprepared for much of his follow-up.

Those arguments by others toward the end were a bit nonsensical, I think.

[LearsFool]

You're absolutely right about the abuses of tyranny; I'd never argue that tyrants behave well.

But that's one of the choices is the dilemma we face - not a dilemma which good people have made, but one forced upon us by the druggies.

If you don't like the consequences of the drug war, if you don't like the tyranny of the drug warriors, come down on the druggies like a ton of bricks and thereby remove the tyrants' excuse.

[10thAmendmentGuy]

Wow. Strike 1.

Strike 1 against Thomas Sowell as well? He also favors legalizing all drugs.

LOL. You’re saying “blacks like drugs so legalize drugs then they’ll vote for you”? You do need to learn to be more pragmatic. Life isn’t like that.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that "blacks like drugs so legalize drugs then they'll vote for you". I never even inferred it. If you're going to INFER something from what I said, here's a hint: DON'T put it in quotes. That is DISHONEST. I never said that black people like drugs. In fact, every study I've seen has said that white people actually use them at a higher rate. But black people comprise the majority of people put in prison for non-violent drug crimes. If we ended the Drug War, we could give these people a chance to succeed. As Milton Friedman said, many of the neighborhoods in inner cities are horrible, and they were nowhere near as bad before the War on Drugs and War on Poverty really kicked into gear. We need to end both wars. We needed to end them 20 years ago.

[muawiyah]

Since different degrees of imprisonment seem manifestly unjust to somebody out there maybe we should have only one punishment ~ you go in but you don't come out.

Simple. Neat. No distinction between crimes at all. Get a DUI. You go in. Blow dope. You go in. Accidentally shoot your wife between the eyes. You go in.

Nobody comes out. No more parole crime. No more ex-con employment problems.

Kind of that straight forward sort of thinking you get from so many dopers ~ no bric a brac ~ no shades of gray ~ just "I am on" or "I am off".

[10thAmendmentGuy]

I thought you two might enjoy this thread.

[Steel Wolf]

If you don't like the consequences of the drug war, if you don't like the tyranny of the drug warriors, come down on the druggies like a ton of bricks and thereby remove the tyrants' excuse.

Yeah! I mean... what?

Start my own SWAT Team? Go Charles Bronson on the Zeta Cartel? Kidnap drug dealers and inject them with their own product? Burn their crops with my flamethrower? Roundhouse kick the cartel leader into a vat of black tar heroin?

[varyouga]

That's funny. There is no opposing “army” to fight in this war. The cartels are unnecessary to create a supply of drugs.

All it takes is one person and a little knowledge to make piles of drugs. Then these drugs can be sold for more than their weight in gold because of prohibition. It's better than having your own cash printing press.

So many drugs can be manufactured from everyday plants, cacti and fungi. For example, swamp reeds grow everywhere that standing water exists. Yet, they contain the most powerful psychedelic drug known to man. A rainy cow field will spawn pounds of illegal mushrooms many times per year (then sold for hundreds per ounce). Now, if that one person happens to have a closet and a few months of privacy, they can make damn near any drug they want.

Unless you can have total control and surveillance of every single person at all times, this war is unwinnable. Oh wait...

[10thAmendmentGuy]

Sounds like you're the one who likes the idea. You want to lock the dopers up for the same amount of time as the murderers and rapists, is that it? No proportionality between the crime and the sentence, hmm? You sell someone an ounce of pot, you get the same sentence as a murderer. Now you wanna talk about a horrible system, that would be it. Talk about breeding disrespect for the rule of law, jeez. If you're a crack dealer who knows that you'll get the same sentence as a murderer if convicted, might you consider shooting the undercover cop that busts you? Probably. Most crack dealers are not nice people. They exist because of your War on Drugs. They're your buddies. You're on the same side as them, congratulations! Just like the bootleggers that financed the crusades against alcohol in the 20s.

They've done polls of drug dealers before, muawiyah. Drug dealers support keeping drugs illegal -- why do you think that is muawiyah? Back to basic economics for you. :)

[muawiyah]

You can drop your wallet on a postal workroom floor and come back days later and it'll still be there with the money and cards in it.

They don't steal.

Most people can't say that about the expected honesty of the members of their own household.

So, this breaking rules business ~ the best rule is the one that you can't help but follow naturally and effortlessly. The worst rule is the one where you will find yourself up against somebody with a firearm pointed at you.

Using dope ~ taking that as a "rule" ~ is doomed to take the firearm route in all cases, either as an arrest, or failure to pay or deliver.

Those people have standards ~ they know their customers have a hard time meeting them. That's why they thrive best where they have a good enforcement model.

[freedomfiter2]

You’re right on that one. Except for morality, stealing is just a simple property transaction.

[LearsFool]

I was speaking figuratively. Next time I’ll try to remember to use the “/figuratively” tag.

[10thAmendmentGuy]

If you don't like the consequences of the drug war, if you don't like the tyranny of the drug warriors, come down on the druggies like a ton of bricks and thereby remove the tyrants' excuse.

Let's get back to basics. Ken H, a great Freeper, has pioneered this great little quiz -- but I'll do it for him because he isn't here right now:

Here we go, LearsFool:

The federal government derives its authority to prosecute the federal War on Drugs from the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

Do you think the original Commerce Clause delegates authority to fedgov to impose national marijuana prohibition? If you think that they do, then you are contributing to the same perverted notion of the Commerce Clause that gives us things like ObamaCare. Obama's attorneys are using the Commerce Clause as a basis for forcing Americans to buy health insurance from a private company. What say you?