Posted on 09/29/2011 4:46:18 AM PDT by Scythian
Mase you really should change your tagline, it does not work with this thread.
I'm opposed to people who employ junk science to push their anti-science agenda in an effort to save us from ourselves. See Michael Bloomberg for inspiration. Unlike the Luddites, I don't bash people who advance science to benefit the public. How about you?
No I am saying that your tagline is a direct opposite of this thread. This thread is about one group saying I know what is best for you and the other side say no you do not. and your tagline says you should be on the no you do not side.
Public medicine is not about saving you from yourself, it about saving your neighbor from you. Your trash goes to a safe landfill, your sewage is piped away, and your kids are immunized to protect your neighbor’s kids.
This is the gun control argument. I have something you perceive affects your safety. You insist government ‘do something’ about that. In this case, forcible medical treatment.
Need I remind you, the CDC itself agrees with the gun controllers that guns are dangerous, cause all sorts of pediatric deaths and should be heavily regulated and taken away from average citizens accordingly.
I’m sure they’re never wrong?
Michael Bloomberg, on the other hand, wants to impose his will on you based on anti-science and his need to control others. There are many folks like Bloomberg who have no grasp of science and how it should influence public policy. My tagline is directed towards them. It is absolutely mind-boggling that you are unable to make that connection.
Do you drive a car that is dangerous to you and others you better stop, at least by your logic.
The fact is, prior to the introduction of the rotavirus vaccine in 2006, almost every child in the USA contracted the rotavirus before they were five. To claim, or even suggest, that our children don't need the vaccine (you said it was unnecessary) and, instead, just need to be more careful about washing their hands more often, displays a profound ignorance of the virus and a resolute unwillingness to accept the staggering amount of data from the USA (number of infections, doctor visits and hospitalizations) that proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
Of course, you look at the global data rather than domestic data to come up with some inane conclusion about my intentions. Here are the facts again for you: In the US, and prior to the vaccine, rotavirus was responsible for more than 400,000 doctor visits; more than 200,000 emergency room visits and 55,000 to 70,000 hospitalizations every year in the USA just in children under 5 years old. The vaccine has reduced those numbers by almost 75% over four years. Do you think that's a good thing or do you think it's better for parents to rush their children to the hospital so they don't die of dehydration? How about the cost savings? How much money do you think we're saving by reducing doctor visits by the hundreds of thousands, ER visits by a hundred thousand (or more) and hospitalizations by the tens of thousands? Now, if you can engage your brain to do so, go global and think about how many of those half a million child deaths, mostly from dehydration (what a way to go, huh?) could be prevented by this vaccine. Do you still think it "unnecessary?"
In an attempt to deflect from the facts, you went off on some weird tangent about a list of unrelated topics like the FDA, the EPA and AGW. Whatever. The rotavirus vaccine, contrary to your uneducated opinion, has been a rousing success and is in no way "unnecessary." Good grief, you don't even understand the concept of "community" immunity or why that concept has made polio and small pox irrelevant in this country.
It's time for you to put your big boy pants on and realize you pretended to speak knowledgeably about something that you have no knowledge of. Let it go. This has nothing to do with the EPA, FDA or the CDC - unless you have some information proving the CDC's stats incorrect. This has nothing to do with inhalers or melanoma either. You simply said something you couldn't back up and you are, at least to this point, unable to man up and admit it. Whatever.
I see that I no longer need to ask if you are really as daft as you appear.
Obviously you do want a nanny state and your tagline is as bogus as you.
“Do you drive a car that is dangerous to you and others”
No, and I wouldn’t. But if you want to drive a car with no brakes, a shattered windshield or otherwise is unsafe, I don’t want you on the same road as me!
Using public health as an excuse for gun control is wrong on multiple levels. It is a problem with gun control advocates, not a problem with public health.
Public health is a field of science much older than the CDC.
When government is in charge of ‘public health’ THEY get to control the discussion and targets for change.
Just because YOU don’t believe in gun control, or think it has a place in discussion of ‘public health’ doesn’t mean they won’t ultimately be successful at gun control, either.
When government is in control of your health, THEY will ultimately decide when/if/what you do with regard to that and how they might, in fact, force that matter.
Their tack is evident in the actions of ‘Our job is to make you eat healthy!’ Bloomberg.
I’m sure the vaccine supply won’t be altered, at all, once all manufacturing is located in China (currently underway apace, btw, along with most R&D as well). China has never, ever, altered (through incompetence, or malice) any of the products they export our way. Never. I’m sure they can be completely trusted with our childrens vaccines. Completely.
BTW, where are the military vaccines manufactured? That’d be a ‘cool’ first strike, wouldn’t it? Contaminate the flu vaccines for our military just prior to an attack? I’m sure they’d never think of that either!
I worked behind the scenes in R&D and manufacturing. I have a rather more cynical view of government mandates and the ability of industry to carry those out in a completely altruistic and uncorrupted manner (much like my cynicism regarding communism or gun control, both excellent ideas on paper, actual practice is somewhat problematic).
Any vaccination side effects from Chinese manufacturing will be explained as:
Coincidence
Genetics
It was always here, we just never noticed it before!
Munchhausens(sp) by proxy
Drugs the mother had to have done while she was pregnant! (I know someone who had a pedi accuse her of drug abuse during pregnancy because her child had a serious dtap reaction.)
The fact that vaccine manufacturers are both indemnified from tort and now relocating to one of the most corrupt manufacturing environments in the entire world doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies.
YMMV, of course.
This isn’t the vaccine industry of the 1980’s. By a long shot.
We’re not going to discuss the ‘public health’ benefits of vaccinations for behavioral problems like addictions or overeating. Do we have a right to mandate those too? Public health and all.
The public health movement has saved more lives than all of the medicines ever produced.
It is wrong to take that successful model and pervet it to persue nanny state goals. So you tell me that something good is being twisted and used by bad people. That does not mean that public health is the same thing as thing they arey trying to make it. It does not mean that the goals are same as the goals of those trying to pervet it.
The CDC needs a good fumigation, no doubt about that, but the rats in the CDC showed up after the major battles were won and the rank and file are still out there tracking disease.
There's no doubt that clean water, for example, has saved millions, possibly billions.
I just don't see a way to keep the rats out of the storehouse in this case. It's where they hang out. It's why robbers hold up banks. Where the money is.
My concern, from an R&D perspective is this:
Over the course of my life I've had FIVE (count them, FIVE) Rubella vaccinations. Four between 1984 and 1998 for one reason or another. Starting college, losing records and getting one just to have that record again, getting a tetanus vax at the college health clinic due to puncture wound accident (stepped on nail, ouch!) and getting a Rubella booster, 'just to be sure'. etc.
In 2003 I got serious about trying to have a baby and my OB insisted on a titer, just to be sure. Actually, it was *her* idea, I thought she was just looking to waste my deductible and my insurance company's money. I've had LOTS of them, WHY are we wasting my time with this??? She, thankfully, insisted.
Guess what. NO rubella titer. ZERO.
(Maybe that SIXTH booster would do the trick?)(I'm not alone I find out, there's a good reason my OB checks routinely now...)
I was left with some uncomfortable conclusions. IF I were infected during pregnancy the treatment would be exactly the same as it was before the vax was developed. Abortion or delivery of seriously deformed baby.
In order to assure this didn't happen to my 'inferior' immune system I must rely on 'herd immunity'. Which means forcing everyone *else* to have that vaccination. I'm not comfortable with that either. It's a rather objectionable vaccine, being made from a cell line derived from an abortion. Some people have genuine religious objections to this. Does my need to feel safe override their genuine objections to this? I don't think so.
Where does my 'need to feel safe and have government force something on them' end? It sounded like my NE liberal coworkers arguments against the availability of guns. They wanted them collected, house to house, by FORCE if necessary. Because the mere presence of guns made them FEEL unsafe.
Why no Plan B with rubella infection? Why is it, in the past FIFTY YEARS, we still know very little more about HOW rubella actually infects and does its dirty deeds than we did before there was a vaccine?
In this case, public health seems to be all 'Plan A' and no 'Plan B' at all. In fact, lack of 'Plan B' seems to be used as a fear factor to ensure maximum uptake of 'Plan A'. And I found that merely questioning the lack of 'Plan B' will mark one as some sort of antivaccine heretic. Or something. Yes, clearly, that's me. I looked like a pincushion in the 1990's. Clearly I'm antivaccine.
And, due to to overabundance of trust in 'Plan A', research since the vaccines for 'serious' diseases that killed/maimed large numbers of children were developed has not happened. Instead of using that time/money to figure OUT the diseases in question (just in case the vaccine strains mutate around the ones in use (pertussis is doing this, CDC is watching this closely, ditto mumps as well)) so we can TREAT them instead of just shotgunning 'Plan A' over 300m people. And, use that information to decipher the other bad guys (ebola, 1918 flu, others), we're chasing ever and smaller epidemiological impacts (HPV/Cervical cancer). It would appear that *all* public health initiatives lead to vaccination of some sort. Diseases, addictions, obesity, you name it.
As I said, I'm cynical by nature having had many years experience in the back end of the business.
'Plan A', by force if necessary makes more money for those lucky enough to be in on the game (private and public)(NIH owns the patent for the 'virus like particle' technology used in Gardasil, were their approval and opinions on Gardasil really unbiased? IIRC they get $3/shot. Lots of shots mean lots of money...they stand to benefit, immensely if it becomes mandatory under obamacare) and reinforces statist tendencies. Both sides of the equation of bad guys win. Instead of finding how to *treat* the flu (and possibly all or most flu virus variations) it's MUCH more profitable to just scare 300m people into getting a $30 shot. Every year.
--BA, the cynic.
Joy. Bliss. Only imagine had this actually gotten released. A little bird in the industry tells me it was only random chance this particular batch was 'tested' to begin with.
1: as soon as you get the letter of intent to call you, MONITOR your calls. If a number without ID or that you don't recognize, let it go to answering machine. If it's really a friend or someone 'benign' they will start to leave a message, at which time you can choose to pick up.
2: If someone you don't recognize asks for you, do not acknowledge but ask "Who's calling, please?" If they won't identify themselves or they do and it's "them", say: "I'm sorry, "she/he" isn't here right now. may I leave a message?" If they leave a number to call - don't. (Rinse/repeat as often as necc. They have a time limit on their agenda and will eventually stop calling.
3: If they DO get you trapped on the phone, tell them you're sorry but you don't discuss personal medical information with anyone but your doctors.
4: It says that one question they will ask is permission to contact your children's doctors to attain the records. REMEMBER THIS: the REASON they ASK permission is that it is ILLEGAL for them to contact your doctors for such information! So politely decline on the ground of personal information between you and your doctors.
5: If all else fails and a doctor has prescribed a harmful drug for your child, maybe you could consider passive non-compliance? For ex: Maybe show your child the long list of harmful side effects and explain that you don't want to do that to them. Agree with your child to just not use them but keep mum about it. (If your child is too young, go to step 6 - maybe should do this as step ONE) Tell the powers that be that they seem to be working fine...keep getting the prescriptions fill on time and toss them.
6: At the same time, find a Naturopathic doctor that also has a medical degree - most have - and put your child under THEIR care. Insurance likely won't cover it, but many times, the out of pocket money isn't any more than your co-pays with 'regular' doctors - indeed, often less because you're child will get better and likely not need to go to the doctor nearly as much.
A Naturopath will not put your child on dangerous drugs and quite likely will give you a natural food/supplements regime that really WILL HELP your child.
As long as the Naturopath is also a trained physician - and in many states it is required - the drug pushing gov't henchmen should not be able to touch you.
you post: “We were sending all of our flu swabs to the state lab for testing. They were testing more than 90% H1N1. We had two deaths in patients less than 25 from the H1N1 at our hospital.”\
When the gov’t and the medical establishment - and YOU - get a handle on the hundreds of thousands of deaths every year from mistakes in hospitals, prescription and drugs - come back and talk.
Here’s just a couple among hundreds of articles.
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
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