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VANITY - Question About GA Ballot Challenge
http://interstatedeposition.com/compellingout-of-statewitness.htm ^ | 01-15-12 | butterdezillion

Posted on 01/15/2012 5:01:45 PM PST by butterdezillion

The Congressional Research Service says that the individual states are in control of choosing their own presidential electors. So presidential eligibility issues are under the jurisdiction of state courts. But according to http://interstatedeposition.com/compellingout-of-statewitness.htm one state can't issue a subpoena for something in another state; they have to get somebody local in the other state to issue a subpoena and then that subpoena will be processed by the state where the records reside. If they refuse to issue or honor the subpoena then the other state is fresh out of luck.

We've already seen that Hawaii will ALWAYS hide the truth about Obama's records, even when it involves clearly breaking their laws and rules. They will never agree to any subpoena for their records.

IOW, the only way we will ever get access to those records for ballot purposes is if a bunch of state SOS's refuse to put Obama's name on the ballot unless and until those records are provided. If Obama wants to be on the ballots he needs to figure out a way to get the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate and the microfilm on which the original BC is filmed.

Is that what GA Judge Malihi said - that if Obama wants to be on the ballot those things have to be provided? Did Orly just copy pre-printed forms that had Malihi's signature, or did he actually require that those records be provided before Obama can be on the ballot?

Also, law enforcement people - is one state's law enforcement in the same predicament if they want a search warrant, subpoena, or deposition from something/somebody in Hawaii? Eric Holder is obviously never going to let federal law enforcement investigate Obama's many crimes including forgery and perjury. Are the feds the only people who COULD force Hawaii to submit to a criminal investigation?

Somebody help me understand exactly what boat we're in right now. As far as I can see from here, it seems like if both Hawaii and the US AG are willing to provide legal sanctuary for criminals the only recourse for the rest of us is impeachment of the US AG. Am I understanding this right? What protections do the rest of the states have against a rogue, criminal state that will hide criminals?

Thanks for any help anybody can give!


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: certifigate; eligibility; georgia; naturalborncitizen; obamaeligibility; obamaelligibility
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1 posted on 01/15/2012 5:01:49 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Fantasywriter; AmericanVictory; Springfield Reformer; rolling_stone; STARWISE; LucyT; bitt; ...

ping.

Is it really as bad as it looks from here? Maybe Fast and Furious is absolutely critical. Where do we go from here?


2 posted on 01/15/2012 5:07:23 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

I can’t keep up with all these cases, but it seems to me if the GA judge required Obama to produce his BC to get on the ballot, it’s up to him/his campaign/representatives to produce the documents. There’d be no need or reason for the other party, i.e., Taitz, to subpoena the records.


3 posted on 01/15/2012 5:07:32 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: butterdezillion

I believe the issue in the GA case is that of Natural born Citizen in which Obama’s birth certificate is not an issue unless it could show that Obama Sr. was not really his fatherand that his real was a US citizen. I could be wrong.


4 posted on 01/15/2012 5:11:31 PM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: EDINVA

Did the judge actually require that? That’s part of my question. That’s what I was led to believe but I’m reading now that a mere subpoena from one state can’t compel the other state to produce. Did the judge say that Obama will be left off the ballot if those pieces of evidence are not presented to the court?


5 posted on 01/15/2012 5:12:31 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: running_dog_lackey

From what I read at http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/williams/120104 it seems to me that the GA SOS is required to make sure that the candidate is eligible for the position being sought. So that would involve having legal proof of meeting all the eligibility requirements - age, residency, and natural born status which would involve both birth place and parentage.

I saw a document with Malihi’s signature on it, requiring Obama to appear and present all his birth records, social security records, passport records, and selective service records, and for the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate as well as the microfilm roll in which Obama’s BC is filmed. I assumed that it was something ordered by Malihi. But when I was at ObamaReleaseYourRecords trying to understand exactly what happened in HI on Friday, it pointed out that Orly had copied her subpoena/request onto a blank form signed by Malihi.

So my question is whether Malihi actually ordered Obama to appear and for he and the HDOH to produce those documents so that the GA SOS could determine whether Obama’s name could be placed on the ballot. If so, is a judge’s order different than a subpoena? Does the HDOH have to obey Malihi’s order, if it was indeed an order?


6 posted on 01/15/2012 5:25:34 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

your link indicates that both issues are being addressed. My assumption would be that EDINVA is correct in that it would be Obama’s burden to provide proof that he is eligible. If that is what the SOS requires.


7 posted on 01/15/2012 5:41:35 PM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: running_dog_lackey

From further reading at http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/court-obama-must-be-constitutionally-eligible/ it seems that Malihi had originally lumped 3 lawsuits into one but the lawyer who is arguing the NBC issue asked for the cases to be separated so that his case doesn’t have to be connected to Orly Taitz. The judge agreed to sever the cases so each will stand separately.

On Jan 26 he’s supposed to first hear arguments on the NBC case, followed by the case presented by Mark Hatfield (not sure what the basis for that case is), and finally hearing the arguments by Taitz.

I wonder if these cases would be appealable to the federal courts.


8 posted on 01/15/2012 5:47:54 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Jet Jaguar; Lady Jag; Slings and Arrows; maggief; Dog; BP2; Candor7; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Spotsy; ..

we need some answers....ping


9 posted on 01/15/2012 5:55:11 PM PST by bitt (Socialism works great until you run out of Chinese money.)
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To: bitt

Oh, thank you, bitt! I wanted to ping as many as I could remember but right now that’s not very many. My brain is so fried I can’t even remember my kids’ names these days. lol.

At this point the law enforcement questions are just as important as the judicial ones, so hopefully somebody knows about that.

When a person is granted discovery in a court case - either criminal or civil - does another state have to honor their requests for discovery?


10 posted on 01/15/2012 5:58:58 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion; bitt; LucyT
Somebody help me understand exactly what boat we're in right now. As far as I can see from here, it seems like if both Hawaii and the US AG are willing to provide legal sanctuary for criminals the only recourse for the rest of us is impeachment of the US AG. Am I understanding this right? What protections do the rest of the states have against a rogue, criminal state that will hide criminals?

Wouldn't we all like to know the answer to THAT! Thanks for the ping bitt; LucyT, maybe someone on your list might be able to help?

11 posted on 01/15/2012 6:13:19 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: butterdezillion

Just looked up the Order denying Team Obama’s Motion to Dismiss in the GA State Administrative Hearings court. He said “Defendant (BHO) ... must meet the Constitutional and statutory requirements for the office being sought.” I believe there’s a hearing on this later in the month.

At that hearing the judge can demand that a certified copy of the original BC be produced before allowing Obama’s name on the ballot. He theoretically could go further, upon receipt of what we’ve seen presented as the original BC, and say because it shows the father as “African” that he’s not, in that judge’s opinion, an NBC. I doubt he would ‘go there’ but who knows? So far all he’s done is deny the motion to dismiss; I don’t see that he’s demanded anything to establish that the candidate met the constitutional or statutory requirements.

Again, WHO issued the subpoena? And if it was Taitz, why? If this judge requires Obama to produce a certified copy of his original BC to get on the GA ballot, and Obama wants to be on the GA ballot, HE can get and produce it; no subpoena is required by anyone.

Back in the SS/FOIA case that was in the DC and HI federal courts, there was a kerfuffle because the subpoena had to be authorized and issued through the DC court, and Taitz had gone ahead and issued subpoenas from the HI court. IIRC that dragged it out until the case was dismissed in the DC court. But in general, one state doesn’t have to honor a subpoena from another state. The FOIA is unique in many ways. I’m not a lawyer and I don’t know any lawyers right now who specialize in that FOIA branch of the law, so am going on layman’s memory and general understanding of what happened in that earlier suit.


12 posted on 01/15/2012 6:18:45 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: butterdezillion
If you are served a subpoena and you do not comply you CAN be held in contempt of court. I truly don't think she's wanting to skirt the law. BUT...

THINK: The reason she is not complying and hiring a lawyer is because she CAN'T comply. There is no BC on the microfilm.
The documentation in the HIDOH was created with the adoption (If a child from China is adopted in the US, a BC is created for the adoptive parents here. It contains their name and date of birth if known and is issued in the court, county, state where the adoption takes place. Any documentation of live birth stays at place of birth.)

Check with your local recorders office. Sometimes when adoptions take place instead of placing them just when the adoption occurs they sometimes cross reference them within the time frame of the actual birth. It makes it easier to find. People remember their birth-date, but date of adoption is not as significant.

Is this making sense?

13 posted on 01/15/2012 6:20:07 PM PST by hoosiermama
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To: EDINVA

I can’t keep up with all the cases, but it sounds like the WHERE of making the subpoena might be treated sort of like the WHEN of filing a case - you’re darned if you do it at time/place A because it’s not time/place B, and you’re darned if you do it at time/place B, because it’s not time/place B.

I am so sick of these legal gymnastics that basically amount to nobody EVER being able to hold either Obama or the bureaucracy accountable to the rule of law.

If it turns out that the feds are the only people who can prosecute crime conducted out of Hawaii, then I am going to scream bloody murder until we get Holder impeached.


14 posted on 01/15/2012 6:29:56 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: phockthis

sfl


15 posted on 01/15/2012 6:34:17 PM PST by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: hoosiermama

I know that Hawaii law allows adoption records to be unsealed on the court order of any US court, so if Malihi did order the production of the documents and the HDOH doesn’t comply that might be the next question that would get asked, rather than slapping a contempt of court charge against Fuddy.

But I’m wondering if the judge is leaving it in Obama’s hands; if he produces the necessary documentation (whatever the judge thinks that is, and that could be really problematic if the judge is either corrupt or corruptible) then Obama will be on the ballot and if not he won’t.


16 posted on 01/15/2012 6:35:39 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
What ever happens on Jan 26, don't be disheartened.

Back in 2008 we didn't know who he was and had no time to vet him.

All of that has changed. I had a conversation with coworkers last week and explained Obama was born a dual citizen. My youngest daughter was also born a dual citizen. She was born before my wife naturalized. She is entitled to have two passports, just like Obama was entitled to have two passports.

Yesterday my wife and I decided we will get her papers done and get the second passport. She has full legal rights in her mothers home country. She can own property there. She can inherit property there. She can go to college there.

Many people don't understand the the US allows dual citizenship. We tend to think its not allowed, but it is.

Conversations like this are going on all over America. We need to inform out friends. A born dual citizen is not a natural born citizen. My daughter is an American citizen by birth. But she is also a foreign citizen by birth. She is not a natural born citizen.

17 posted on 01/15/2012 6:37:47 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: butterdezillion

Anyone could go brain-dead trying to follow these cases; I’ve pretty much stopped.

BUT... my very simple point is that so far there has been no need for a subpoena by anyone in any court for the GA state administrative hearings court case.

Judge Malihi hasn’t ordered any records yet. We don’t know what records he would require, and won’t until the hearing. Taitz isn’t free to proceed as if she were granted discovery; she wasn’t.

This judge will decide what documents he believes will satisfy GA law, and demand of the defendant, the candidate, that he produce those records. Just politically, imagine if Obama didn’t comply with the GA court demand and was kept off that state’s ballot because he refused to produce those documents.

I understand that people despise lawyers, and I can be counted among them, generally speaking. Again, BUT there’s a reason experienced lawyers are usually paid big bucks to prosecute or defend lawsuits. The law, and court rules and procedures, are very complicated and require the specialized training that lawyers go through. They can miss one deadline or be off on what seems a minor point and their case can be kicked out of court. Leaving that work to non-professionals is to court disaster.


18 posted on 01/15/2012 7:14:30 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: butterdezillion
Heres a good link for facts on Dual Citizenship.

http://www.newcitizen.us/dual.html

My father in law became a dual citizen after naturalizing in the USA. They call it reinstating.

My daughter and some of her cousins are born dual citizens, just like Obama. Many of our friends have born dual citizen children.

We just need to call it what it is, wherever we go. There is a name for Obamas status at birth. Born dual citizen.

19 posted on 01/15/2012 7:19:32 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: PA-RIVER

I do think people are becoming more aware of dual citizenship and I think we’ll get some answers regarding NBC too.

Sometimes I feel like a broken record (I presume you’re old enough to still know about broken records. lol), but I can’t help but keep coming back to the lawlessness. If having a corrupt US AG means that any state in the union can become a sanctuary for criminals and nobody can ever bring the rule of law to that place because it’s off-limits to any other state’s law enforcement (even when it involves a crime committed in the state that wants to investigate), that is really, really scary to me.

The checks and balances are broken.

If Arizona would find that Obama perjured himself and committed forgery to get on their ballot and charged both Obama and various people from the HDOH (such as Fukino, Fuddy, Okubo, Onaka, etc) with aiding and abetting that crime (or of any of the other crimes they’ve committed), would the Hawaii government be able to just say, “You can’t have any evidence from our state if we don’t want you to”, and that would be the end of it? Can a state government commit crimes against other states and then hide their own evidence?

This whole process has been incredibly disillusioning to me, but this part of the hard-knocks education I’ve gotten is positively frightening - and especially now that I’m researching how Hitler was able to do what he did.

If Hawaii wanted to have their own Holocaust, at this point nobody could stop them as long as their own police and judges were willing to look the other direction. God knows Holder would look the other direction. Maybe even provide the gas chambers for them to do it - as long as it wasn’t Blacks who were gassed. He sure doesn’t seem to care about the Americans or Mexicans gunned down by guns he illegally provided the murderers (with no ability to even be tracked to the drug cartels until after the murders).

It doesn’t work to try to kid myself that something like that could never happen in America. It’s already happening with the eligibility issue; I’ve seen the whole system aiding and abetting crimes and nobody can do a dang thing about it. And we’ve got hardcore leftists as “czars”, who have said that they would put abortifacients or sterilants in the drinking water if they thought the earth needed less people on it. The goals of Hitler are totally in sync with the goals of Obama’s administration. The methods are totally in sync. And if nobody at the federal level can prosecute what Holder wants to overlook, and if nobody at the state level can get access to evidence if another state or the feds are willing to hide it... the rest of us are sitting ducks.

This is absolutely frightening to me. And sickening. It has to be fixed.


20 posted on 01/15/2012 7:22:59 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: EDINVA; Kenny Bunk

My fear is that Malihi will accept a forged document without even giving it scrutiny, and the issue will be deemed as decided.

We’ve been betrayed by the judges too many times, so when somebody does what seems to be right it’s like the mischievous kid smiling; you wonder what he’s up to. Kenny, you suggested right away that it could be a ploy, and I followed up by saying it could specifically be intended to pre-empt whatever the Cold Case Posse comes up with.

I’ve said since about last January that I thought Abercrombie made his gung-ho statements about showing Obama’s BC because they were planning to unveil a forged one. And I said at that time that with the HDOH caught in so much law-breaking, alteration of records, lying, etc the only way we will have a trustworthy understanding of what really happened is to cross-examine all the records - computer transaction logs, etc. If this judge doesn’t demand that, and/or the microfilms as well as other records that very strongly look to be tampered with, Obama will be able to argue that his eligibility and the genuineness of the documents have already been legally proven.

Kenny, I think you said that Obama never claimed that what he posted online was his actual birth certificate. So if the HDOH comes out with a good forgery Obama could still evade forgery charges on a technicality. It is not legally certified even if the vestiges of a “seal” are considered, and I don’t believe for a minute that what he posted online is what the HDOH has in their office. They have in their office a much better forgery, and a judge looking at it for a brief moment could easily be fooled - especially if he doesn’t already know all the crap surrounding Sunahara’s birth record and other crimes the HDOH has committed surrounding Obama’s records.


21 posted on 01/15/2012 7:39:10 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
I would compare this to a driver from NJ getting pulled over in GA.

The GA judge can request the document from the driver, and then request confirmation from the state of NJ.

If the driver shows a judge a bogus license and the State cant provide the license for any reason, the Judge is obligated to put the driver in jail. A bogus BC should be a problem. If the Judge allows Obama to use bogus documents, than he opens the court to bogus documents for all. So he can't do that without risking his own reputation.

It all depends on what the Judge believes is sufficient for NBC. For the office of president of the USA, I would think releasing all documents held by HDOH would be required and reasonable. It's not asking too much. This shouldn't be a big deal. I am an NBC, and it's one lousey document. Not a big deal. For someone adopted it might be two or three.Not a big deal.

Right now, Obama is playing a game of chicken with all who oppose him. The race card will be dealt on this judge if he stops Obama. This is the reality.

22 posted on 01/15/2012 8:02:46 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks bitt.


23 posted on 01/15/2012 8:14:30 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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24 posted on 01/15/2012 8:30:35 PM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: PA-RIVER; butterdezillion
"A born dual citizen is not a natural born citizen. My daughter is an American citizen by birth. But she is also a foreign citizen by birth. She is not a natural born citizen."

I am in exactly the same situation. I explained this to my child as well, that although she may make a fine mayor, governor, senator or congressman one day, the presidency at current is not an office to which she can legally aspire. When you place that much power in the hands of a single individual, you don't want to have any issues with regard to where loyalties are presumed to lie.

The people that I run into in everyday life that I explain it to intuitively understand the reasoning, and yes, the amount of conversation on the subject is increasing. The description of NBC in Minor vs Happersett makes eloquently simple sense to most people. This issue is NOT going away. Not by along shot. The foregoing doesn't take into consideration that we won't even get to learn the findings of Arpaio's Cold Case Posse until next month.

25 posted on 01/15/2012 8:51:25 PM PST by Flotsam_Jetsome ("Obama" Eligibility: Don't let 'em (continue to) get away with it.)
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To: butterdezillion
Lawlessness begets lawlessness.

But before that happens, we have elections. Elections provide a chance for corrections.

Removing Obama will be justice. It should happen.

26 posted on 01/15/2012 8:55:16 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: PA-RIVER

If Obama shows a fake and then the judge asks the HDOH to confirm it, they would confirm it. If the judge asks for more documentation to prove the authenticity, HI would tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine because the Full Faith and Credit Clause requires GA to accept the records of another state.

Judge Leon, in the Strunk FOIA lawsuit, accepted what definitely appeared to be a forged Department of State “cable” as proof of a retention period being changed and millions of records being destroyed without there being any legally-required record of either the retention change or the destruction. Refused to even require the Passport Office to authenticate this supposed “cable”. And at the same time he accepted a search of 1978-2010 records as a “reasonable” search for 1965 records.

At this point judges don’t give a rip about their reputations where Obama is concerned. I could go on a long, long time (but will spare you. lol) about the blatant judicial corruption in the Obama cases. These guys either don’t care if everybody knows they’re jerking us around, or else they may even be WANTING us to know that their decisions are compromised.

I think their reasoning is sort of like the Roe v Wade thing. The stuff with Obama only counts for Obama, just like the stuff for Roe isn’t supposed to make sense with anything else. If anybody tried to actually use the reasoning from Roe v Wade they would be laughed out of court. Everybody knows the reasoning of Roe v Wade was just a bunch of baloney in order to justify legislating from the bench. If anybody argued the logical extensions of Roe v Wade we’d have to conclude that children in the womb can’t inherit, that corporations can’t be “legal persons”, that Blacks are still “human livestock”, and that the government has a vested interest in controlling women’s menstrual cycles as they represent “potential life”. Nobody argues those points because they know the court could never have meant what they said in Roe; it was just a one-time stupid decision that everybody rolls their eyes at because it’s so stupid but they let the facade go on as if it was a legitimate decision. In reality they ignore the stupidity of Roe because they want abortion on demand.

And the courts would never allow the same reasoning as used in the Obama cases for anything else. They know that Obama gets special treatment, just like abortion, because it’s judges playing politics. One set of laws for Obama and another for everybody else. Everybody knows that the courts won’t accept forgeries for anybody else but Obama so how Obama is treated makes no difference to anything else.


27 posted on 01/15/2012 9:00:08 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
"If Obama shows a fake and then the judge asks the HDOH to confirm it, they would confirm it. If the judge asks for more documentation to prove the authenticity, HI would tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine because the Full Faith and Credit Clause requires GA to accept the records of another state."

If the fake is confirmed as genuine, then they (HDOH) are affirming the putative parentage of "Obama" and the case goes forward on the basis of the presumed dual citizenship. If HDOH were to decline to vouch for the fake's veracity or refused to assist GA, then "Obama" gets kept off the ballot in the first, and HI looks mighty suspicious in the second.

28 posted on 01/15/2012 9:15:28 PM PST by Flotsam_Jetsome ("Obama" Eligibility: Don't let 'em (continue to) get away with it.)
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To: butterdezillion
From further reading at http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/court-obama-must-be-constitutionally-eligible/ it seems that Malihi had originally lumped 3 lawsuits into one but the lawyer who is arguing the NBC issue asked for the cases to be separated so that his case doesn’t have to be connected to Orly Taitz. The judge agreed to sever the cases so each will stand separately.

This is good news if this is true. If one of these cases is based on the Minor definition of NBC, a compelling legal precedent from the nation's highest judicial authority, then it stands a chance of success. The farther Orly can be kept away, the better.

29 posted on 01/15/2012 9:28:00 PM PST by edge919
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To: butterdezillion
If Obama shows a fake and then the judge asks the HDOH to confirm it, they would confirm it. If the judge asks for more documentation to prove the authenticity, HI would tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine because the Full Faith and Credit Clause requires GA to accept the records of another state.

Keep in mind the Constitution declares that there must be a process for proving the validity of records under the Full Faith and Credit Clause. It's not enough, just to send the judge an e-mail. There is supposed to be a formal verification process. And the ironic thing, is that Obama himself voted for a validation process when he was a senator for anytime a birth certificate is used to obtain a drivers license or ID card.

30 posted on 01/15/2012 9:30:57 PM PST by edge919
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To: butterdezillion

Do you have a link to the document you saw requiring Obama to appear and present all his birth records, social security records, passport records, and selective service records, and for the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate as well as the microfilm roll in which Obama’s BC is filmed?

For the time being, please read this to get a better understanding of Georgia subpoenas in case you haven’t seen this:
http://www.dmqlaw.com/articles/HowtoEnsure.pdf


31 posted on 01/15/2012 9:33:58 PM PST by Obama Exposer
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To: edge919; Spaulding; All

Just for info but still on topic: There’s a pretty good discussion going on at the moment (January 16, 2012 @12:17 EST) over on Hot Air concerning NBC, Romney, Jindal and Rubio under the Huntsman Withdraws thread. Conversation widens, folks.


32 posted on 01/15/2012 9:35:01 PM PST by Flotsam_Jetsome ("Obama" Eligibility: Don't let 'em (continue to) get away with it.)
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To: edge919

I think Congress set the process for proving the genuineness as being the official seal on the document. Which a criminal HDOH would be more than willing to provide.


33 posted on 01/15/2012 9:52:56 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

I’m not so sure the HI DOH is really willing to do this, otherwise Obama’s jpg and PDF would already have the official seal on them. Even if they did, it’s going to have to match the jpg or the PDF that Obama has already made public. If it doesn’t match, Obama is toast.


34 posted on 01/15/2012 9:59:07 PM PST by edge919
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To: edge919

I wonder if GA can record all the phone calls this judge makes or receives between now and the time he makes his decision.

I find it hard to believe that Obama would be able to compromise the integrity of Chief Justice Roberts but wouldn’t be able to do the same for a GA state judge. I fear this is a set-up.

I agree with you that it’s good there are the other 2 cases that stand apart from Orly, because she’s botched up some of the legal details on her other cases. I’m glad she’ll be bringing some of the evidence of criminal activity and corruption to the judge’s attention, though; maybe it will make him more alert.

Of course, if this is a set-up it won’t matter how alert he is.


35 posted on 01/15/2012 10:00:19 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Flotsam_Jetsome
I'm so glad to communicate with you.

I told people at work that he is a born dual citizen, and they squirmed and said no way, the USA does not allow it. These are liberals. When I got done explaining the situation they were in shock.

I gave these points, in this order:

1. Obama is a Born Dual citizen, not a Natural Born Citizen.
2. The USA allows dual citizenship.
3. Minor Vs Happersett Defined NBC.
4. My Daughter is a Born Dual citizen, just like Obama.

My wife had told me, years before Obama was elected, that our daughter is a dual citizen. I myself wasn't sure about dual citizenship, so I looked at the Embassy of my wifes country and our state department. Sure enough, my daughter is a Born Dual Citizen, just like Obama.

I have a brother in the same situation. He has a boy and girl, both born dual citizens. His wife naturalized after they were born in the USA.

If my daughter is elected president, a foreign citizen would be elected president. She has an American BC and American citizenship, yet she is a foreign citizen.

36 posted on 01/15/2012 10:08:53 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: butterdezillion

I don’t think Roberts’ integrity is at stake here. A) We don’t know how much he knows about the natural-born citizen issue and B) we have rule of law that he still has to follow. He can’t arbitrarily decide not to follow established law based on his personal feeling about Obama’s eligibility. There’s still a process that must be followed, even though it’s not clear what this process actually is. As for Orly, I just don’t trust her integrity. She’s done too many things that have sabotaged her own efforts.


37 posted on 01/15/2012 10:17:13 PM PST by edge919
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To: edge919; Kenny Bunk

If Obama didn’t ever claim that what he posted was an actual birth certificate rather than an abstract, then the worst he would be charged with would be a violation of the Federal General False Statement Act. But there’d still have to be somebody willing to prosecute him and who would do that? It wouldn’t harm him politically because the evidence presented wouldn’t be posted online or be open to public scrutiny. It would just be the judge looking at it.

When we were working on the eligibility bill for Nebraska we wanted to make sure there was a way for the public to be able to scrutinize the documents because we have to have a transparency that would hold the government officials up to public scrutiny. In a court case there wouldn’t be that, so the whole thing would depend on the integrity of the judge.

In that regard I feel like a wife that’s been through about 5 two-timing husbands. Not really ready to love again, if ya know what I mean.

The HDOH was plenty willing to certify a COLB for Virginia Sunahara that has a BC# that makes no sense with ANY way of BC# reckoning. And if they truly have a forged BC in their files, as Corsi’s source claims, then Fuddy could claim ignorance of it being forged. Unless there’s evidence showing that Neal Palafox was forced to resign as HDOH Director because he refused to allow the forgery into the files, whereas Fuddy was willing to go along with it.


38 posted on 01/15/2012 10:17:47 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Obama Exposer

I don’t know where I had seen that, but I’m suspecting that it was probably just something that Orly typed up onto the blank form that had the judge’s signature. You’d think if Malihi actually ordered that it would show up on the legal documents posted online.


39 posted on 01/15/2012 10:20:41 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: PA-RIVER

It’s amazing how uninformed people are. Obama even admits that he was born a dual citizen.

Of course, if he wasn’t born in the USA he wasn’t even a US citizen at birth; he would just have been British and not American at all. And still wouldn’t be American unless he naturalized at some point.


40 posted on 01/15/2012 10:25:29 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: edge919
Since 9-11, getting a drivers license has required a BC.

I would look to Georgia DOT for BC requirements that this judge cold use as a guide.

41 posted on 01/15/2012 10:36:36 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: edge919

When Roberts publicly stated that he trusts the justices to know when to recuse themselves - not long after Sotomayor and Kagan refused to recuse themselves from the Hollister conference where their own positions were at stake - I knew that Roberts’ integrity is severely compromised.

The only situation I can think of that would be a greater conflict of interest than that is if a judge was accused of murder and refused to recuse herself from the decision of whether the case should go to trial. If a chief justice publicly affirmed his trust for a judge who did that, everybody would know something was very badly wrong.

And that statement coming out within the context of the Obamacare case suggested to me that Roberts isn’t just compromised on Obama’s eligibility either, but on whatever Obama’s handlers want SCOTUS to rule on.

I think Orly’s intentions are good but she’s spread herself out too thin and has botched things up as a result. She’s been fighting so hard for so long. That wears a person down. After a while I think maybe a person succombs to the seductive belief that the end justifies the means so that compromises the integrity.


42 posted on 01/15/2012 10:39:49 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
This might be helpful...

http://libertylegalfoundation.org/1477/georgia-court-ruled-against-obama/

http://libertylegalfoundation.org/certification-class-action/georgia-ballot-challenge/

43 posted on 01/15/2012 10:40:45 PM PST by Tex-Con-Man (T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII 2012 - "Together, I Shall Ride You To Victory")
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To: butterdezillion

I’ve read your comments on the False Statement Act and I just don’t really see that would ever come into play.

On the Viriginia Sunahara BC, all I can say is ‘dead men tell no tales.’ That’s much more of a closed-ended situation than for Obama, where in the latter case, they have to keep their distance and as much plausible deniability as possible, just in case Obama accidentally blows the whistle on himself.


44 posted on 01/15/2012 10:41:42 PM PST by edge919
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To: butterdezillion

I’ve read your comments on the False Statement Act and I just don’t really see that would ever come into play.

On the Viriginia Sunahara BC, all I can say is ‘dead men tell no tales.’ That’s much more of a closed-ended situation than for Obama, where in the latter case, they have to keep their distance and as much plausible deniability as possible, just in case Obama accidentally blows the whistle on himself.


45 posted on 01/15/2012 10:41:44 PM PST by edge919
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To: butterdezillion
Geraldo Rivera is on now, spouting that Romney has Mexican parents. He said his Father and Grandfather were born in Mexico.

So Geraldo is now saying Romney is a dual citizen.

46 posted on 01/15/2012 10:48:30 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: PA-RIVER

They should subpoena Obama for whatver birth certificate he used to get his drivers license AND for his Congressional passport in 2005. Let’s see if those documents match what he released in 2008 and 2011.


47 posted on 01/15/2012 10:49:11 PM PST by edge919
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To: PA-RIVER

It seems to me from what you say is that a duel citizenship person would have to have birth blood relationship if allowed by the two different nations. For example would my brother and I have dual citizenship by virtue of being born in the USA but our parents were immigrants not being citizens at the time of our birth if the nation of their citizenship did recognize duel citizenship?


48 posted on 01/15/2012 10:58:47 PM PST by noinfringers2
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To: edge919

I think plausible deniability is why they’ve waffled around about Obama’s records, their procedures, etc. They give the APPEARANCE of affirming what Obama has posted but there’s always waffle room. They always leave waffle room.

Even looking at what Nagamine argued against Taitz on Friday, they claim that even if a subpoena applied to them, HRS 338-18 won’t allow them to obey a subpoena because it only allows release to individuals who (among other things) are declared by a court of competent jurisdiction to have a legal right to access the record. Sounds to me like they would claim that a judge ordering the disclosure of the record would not be enough; the judge would first have to declare himself as having a legal right to access the record.

That kind of parsing words is what they do. Waffle room. It allows plausible deniability. I’ve been wrestling for over 2 1/2 years with that kind of waffling from them.

Dead men tell no tales, but the HDOH is gonna have a hard time justifying their refusal to give Duncan Sunahara a photocopy of Virginia’s long-form when that disclosure is REQUIRED by UIPA. Not a hard time justifying it to the judge. The Hawaii judge will wink at the corruption; I’m convinced there is no rule of law whatsoever in Hawaii government. But they will have a hard time justifying it to the public, which is the only real trial any of the Hawaii bureaucrats face - which is why they want to shut us down through the “vexatious requestor” law and their obfuscations.

All in all, though, neither Obama nor the HDOH have anything to worry about in regards to presenting a halfway decent forgery to Malihi unless he requires other documentation too.

What I really wonder, though, is who can force the HDOH to produce their transaction logs and original microfilms, give depositions, etc. And in what type of setting (i.e. criminal or civil trial, etc). I’m doing too much talking and not enough listening. I really want to understand how that works.


49 posted on 01/15/2012 11:10:00 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
Dead men tell no tales, but the HDOH is gonna have a hard time justifying their refusal to give Duncan Sunahara a photocopy of Virginia’s long-form when that disclosure is REQUIRED by UIPA.

Actually, I think it's also required under the normal disclosure statutes where they have to release any part of any certificate to an eligible requester.

And yes, you're absolutely right about all their parsing. It would be comical if it wasn't so incriminating. The only way I see Hawaii really breaking down and releasing the things you mention is if someone internal blows the whistle on 'em.

50 posted on 01/15/2012 11:21:59 PM PST by edge919
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