Skip to comments.VANITY - Question About GA Ballot Challenge
Posted on 01/15/2012 5:01:45 PM PST by butterdezillion
The Congressional Research Service says that the individual states are in control of choosing their own presidential electors. So presidential eligibility issues are under the jurisdiction of state courts. But according to http://interstatedeposition.com/compellingout-of-statewitness.htm one state can't issue a subpoena for something in another state; they have to get somebody local in the other state to issue a subpoena and then that subpoena will be processed by the state where the records reside. If they refuse to issue or honor the subpoena then the other state is fresh out of luck.
We've already seen that Hawaii will ALWAYS hide the truth about Obama's records, even when it involves clearly breaking their laws and rules. They will never agree to any subpoena for their records.
IOW, the only way we will ever get access to those records for ballot purposes is if a bunch of state SOS's refuse to put Obama's name on the ballot unless and until those records are provided. If Obama wants to be on the ballots he needs to figure out a way to get the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate and the microfilm on which the original BC is filmed.
Is that what GA Judge Malihi said - that if Obama wants to be on the ballot those things have to be provided? Did Orly just copy pre-printed forms that had Malihi's signature, or did he actually require that those records be provided before Obama can be on the ballot?
Also, law enforcement people - is one state's law enforcement in the same predicament if they want a search warrant, subpoena, or deposition from something/somebody in Hawaii? Eric Holder is obviously never going to let federal law enforcement investigate Obama's many crimes including forgery and perjury. Are the feds the only people who COULD force Hawaii to submit to a criminal investigation?
Somebody help me understand exactly what boat we're in right now. As far as I can see from here, it seems like if both Hawaii and the US AG are willing to provide legal sanctuary for criminals the only recourse for the rest of us is impeachment of the US AG. Am I understanding this right? What protections do the rest of the states have against a rogue, criminal state that will hide criminals?
Thanks for any help anybody can give!
Is it really as bad as it looks from here? Maybe Fast and Furious is absolutely critical. Where do we go from here?
I can’t keep up with all these cases, but it seems to me if the GA judge required Obama to produce his BC to get on the ballot, it’s up to him/his campaign/representatives to produce the documents. There’d be no need or reason for the other party, i.e., Taitz, to subpoena the records.
I believe the issue in the GA case is that of Natural born Citizen in which Obama’s birth certificate is not an issue unless it could show that Obama Sr. was not really his fatherand that his real was a US citizen. I could be wrong.
Did the judge actually require that? That’s part of my question. That’s what I was led to believe but I’m reading now that a mere subpoena from one state can’t compel the other state to produce. Did the judge say that Obama will be left off the ballot if those pieces of evidence are not presented to the court?
From what I read at http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/williams/120104 it seems to me that the GA SOS is required to make sure that the candidate is eligible for the position being sought. So that would involve having legal proof of meeting all the eligibility requirements - age, residency, and natural born status which would involve both birth place and parentage.
I saw a document with Malihi’s signature on it, requiring Obama to appear and present all his birth records, social security records, passport records, and selective service records, and for the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate as well as the microfilm roll in which Obama’s BC is filmed. I assumed that it was something ordered by Malihi. But when I was at ObamaReleaseYourRecords trying to understand exactly what happened in HI on Friday, it pointed out that Orly had copied her subpoena/request onto a blank form signed by Malihi.
So my question is whether Malihi actually ordered Obama to appear and for he and the HDOH to produce those documents so that the GA SOS could determine whether Obama’s name could be placed on the ballot. If so, is a judge’s order different than a subpoena? Does the HDOH have to obey Malihi’s order, if it was indeed an order?
your link indicates that both issues are being addressed. My assumption would be that EDINVA is correct in that it would be Obama’s burden to provide proof that he is eligible. If that is what the SOS requires.
From further reading at http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/court-obama-must-be-constitutionally-eligible/ it seems that Malihi had originally lumped 3 lawsuits into one but the lawyer who is arguing the NBC issue asked for the cases to be separated so that his case doesn’t have to be connected to Orly Taitz. The judge agreed to sever the cases so each will stand separately.
On Jan 26 he’s supposed to first hear arguments on the NBC case, followed by the case presented by Mark Hatfield (not sure what the basis for that case is), and finally hearing the arguments by Taitz.
I wonder if these cases would be appealable to the federal courts.
we need some answers....ping
Oh, thank you, bitt! I wanted to ping as many as I could remember but right now that’s not very many. My brain is so fried I can’t even remember my kids’ names these days. lol.
At this point the law enforcement questions are just as important as the judicial ones, so hopefully somebody knows about that.
When a person is granted discovery in a court case - either criminal or civil - does another state have to honor their requests for discovery?
Wouldn't we all like to know the answer to THAT! Thanks for the ping bitt; LucyT, maybe someone on your list might be able to help?
Just looked up the Order denying Team Obama’s Motion to Dismiss in the GA State Administrative Hearings court. He said “Defendant (BHO) ... must meet the Constitutional and statutory requirements for the office being sought.” I believe there’s a hearing on this later in the month.
At that hearing the judge can demand that a certified copy of the original BC be produced before allowing Obama’s name on the ballot. He theoretically could go further, upon receipt of what we’ve seen presented as the original BC, and say because it shows the father as “African” that he’s not, in that judge’s opinion, an NBC. I doubt he would ‘go there’ but who knows? So far all he’s done is deny the motion to dismiss; I don’t see that he’s demanded anything to establish that the candidate met the constitutional or statutory requirements.
Again, WHO issued the subpoena? And if it was Taitz, why? If this judge requires Obama to produce a certified copy of his original BC to get on the GA ballot, and Obama wants to be on the GA ballot, HE can get and produce it; no subpoena is required by anyone.
Back in the SS/FOIA case that was in the DC and HI federal courts, there was a kerfuffle because the subpoena had to be authorized and issued through the DC court, and Taitz had gone ahead and issued subpoenas from the HI court. IIRC that dragged it out until the case was dismissed in the DC court. But in general, one state doesn’t have to honor a subpoena from another state. The FOIA is unique in many ways. I’m not a lawyer and I don’t know any lawyers right now who specialize in that FOIA branch of the law, so am going on layman’s memory and general understanding of what happened in that earlier suit.
THINK: The reason she is not complying and hiring a lawyer is because she CAN'T comply. There is no BC on the microfilm.
The documentation in the HIDOH was created with the adoption (If a child from China is adopted in the US, a BC is created for the adoptive parents here. It contains their name and date of birth if known and is issued in the court, county, state where the adoption takes place. Any documentation of live birth stays at place of birth.)
Check with your local recorders office. Sometimes when adoptions take place instead of placing them just when the adoption occurs they sometimes cross reference them within the time frame of the actual birth. It makes it easier to find. People remember their birth-date, but date of adoption is not as significant.
Is this making sense?
I can’t keep up with all the cases, but it sounds like the WHERE of making the subpoena might be treated sort of like the WHEN of filing a case - you’re darned if you do it at time/place A because it’s not time/place B, and you’re darned if you do it at time/place B, because it’s not time/place B.
I am so sick of these legal gymnastics that basically amount to nobody EVER being able to hold either Obama or the bureaucracy accountable to the rule of law.
If it turns out that the feds are the only people who can prosecute crime conducted out of Hawaii, then I am going to scream bloody murder until we get Holder impeached.
I know that Hawaii law allows adoption records to be unsealed on the court order of any US court, so if Malihi did order the production of the documents and the HDOH doesn’t comply that might be the next question that would get asked, rather than slapping a contempt of court charge against Fuddy.
But I’m wondering if the judge is leaving it in Obama’s hands; if he produces the necessary documentation (whatever the judge thinks that is, and that could be really problematic if the judge is either corrupt or corruptible) then Obama will be on the ballot and if not he won’t.
Back in 2008 we didn't know who he was and had no time to vet him.
All of that has changed. I had a conversation with coworkers last week and explained Obama was born a dual citizen. My youngest daughter was also born a dual citizen. She was born before my wife naturalized. She is entitled to have two passports, just like Obama was entitled to have two passports.
Yesterday my wife and I decided we will get her papers done and get the second passport. She has full legal rights in her mothers home country. She can own property there. She can inherit property there. She can go to college there.
Many people don't understand the the US allows dual citizenship. We tend to think its not allowed, but it is.
Conversations like this are going on all over America. We need to inform out friends. A born dual citizen is not a natural born citizen. My daughter is an American citizen by birth. But she is also a foreign citizen by birth. She is not a natural born citizen.
Anyone could go brain-dead trying to follow these cases; I’ve pretty much stopped.
BUT... my very simple point is that so far there has been no need for a subpoena by anyone in any court for the GA state administrative hearings court case.
Judge Malihi hasn’t ordered any records yet. We don’t know what records he would require, and won’t until the hearing. Taitz isn’t free to proceed as if she were granted discovery; she wasn’t.
This judge will decide what documents he believes will satisfy GA law, and demand of the defendant, the candidate, that he produce those records. Just politically, imagine if Obama didn’t comply with the GA court demand and was kept off that state’s ballot because he refused to produce those documents.
I understand that people despise lawyers, and I can be counted among them, generally speaking. Again, BUT there’s a reason experienced lawyers are usually paid big bucks to prosecute or defend lawsuits. The law, and court rules and procedures, are very complicated and require the specialized training that lawyers go through. They can miss one deadline or be off on what seems a minor point and their case can be kicked out of court. Leaving that work to non-professionals is to court disaster.
My father in law became a dual citizen after naturalizing in the USA. They call it reinstating.
My daughter and some of her cousins are born dual citizens, just like Obama. Many of our friends have born dual citizen children.
We just need to call it what it is, wherever we go. There is a name for Obamas status at birth. Born dual citizen.
I do think people are becoming more aware of dual citizenship and I think we’ll get some answers regarding NBC too.
Sometimes I feel like a broken record (I presume you’re old enough to still know about broken records. lol), but I can’t help but keep coming back to the lawlessness. If having a corrupt US AG means that any state in the union can become a sanctuary for criminals and nobody can ever bring the rule of law to that place because it’s off-limits to any other state’s law enforcement (even when it involves a crime committed in the state that wants to investigate), that is really, really scary to me.
The checks and balances are broken.
If Arizona would find that Obama perjured himself and committed forgery to get on their ballot and charged both Obama and various people from the HDOH (such as Fukino, Fuddy, Okubo, Onaka, etc) with aiding and abetting that crime (or of any of the other crimes they’ve committed), would the Hawaii government be able to just say, “You can’t have any evidence from our state if we don’t want you to”, and that would be the end of it? Can a state government commit crimes against other states and then hide their own evidence?
This whole process has been incredibly disillusioning to me, but this part of the hard-knocks education I’ve gotten is positively frightening - and especially now that I’m researching how Hitler was able to do what he did.
If Hawaii wanted to have their own Holocaust, at this point nobody could stop them as long as their own police and judges were willing to look the other direction. God knows Holder would look the other direction. Maybe even provide the gas chambers for them to do it - as long as it wasn’t Blacks who were gassed. He sure doesn’t seem to care about the Americans or Mexicans gunned down by guns he illegally provided the murderers (with no ability to even be tracked to the drug cartels until after the murders).
It doesn’t work to try to kid myself that something like that could never happen in America. It’s already happening with the eligibility issue; I’ve seen the whole system aiding and abetting crimes and nobody can do a dang thing about it. And we’ve got hardcore leftists as “czars”, who have said that they would put abortifacients or sterilants in the drinking water if they thought the earth needed less people on it. The goals of Hitler are totally in sync with the goals of Obama’s administration. The methods are totally in sync. And if nobody at the federal level can prosecute what Holder wants to overlook, and if nobody at the state level can get access to evidence if another state or the feds are willing to hide it... the rest of us are sitting ducks.
This is absolutely frightening to me. And sickening. It has to be fixed.