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Join With the AKC to Protect Responsible Small Breeders and Stop USDA's Overreaching Regulations!
American Kennel Club ^ | June 12, 2012 | American Kennel Club

Posted on 06/15/2012 6:37:12 AM PDT by Gennie

Under the proposed regulations, breeders or others who sell a puppy sight unseen, by any means including online, by mail or by telephone, would now be regulated in accordance with USDA standards, if you own more than four "breeding females" of any of the listed species, including dogs and cats. The effect of these proposed regulations would be to take away the public’s opportunity to obtain puppies from those breeders, who in many cases have dedicated their lives to breeding for health, breed type and temperament.

As the leader and expert in breeding and maintaining dogs for more than a century, the AKC supports responsible breeders and dog owners through its educational and inspections programs. As the only purebred dog registry with a care and conditions of dogs policy – which we have recently enhanced to create a comprehensive policy for the welfare of all dogs – more than 55,000 inspections have been conducted since 2000. We know through experience that regardless of the number of dogs owned or the manner in which breeders interact with potential puppy buyers, a “one size fits all” breeder regulation is unfair and unenforceable.

(Excerpt) Read more at akc.org ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: akc; breeding; dogs; usda

1 posted on 06/15/2012 6:37:24 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie

My wife and I know all about this.

Honey Pot Hounds
Breeders of AKC Champion Beagles


2 posted on 06/15/2012 6:45:57 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: Gennie
This is a good cause - even though I have my issues with the American Kennel Club.

The proposed regulations will put responsible hobby breeders out of business, but do absolutely nothing to help close puppy mills (which are already illegal under numerous laws and regs).

Makes you wonder what they really are trying to do, doesn't it?

3 posted on 06/15/2012 6:47:05 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Joe 6-pack

Doggie ping


4 posted on 06/15/2012 7:00:14 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: AnAmericanMother

EXACTLY! There are already a lot of state regulations in place to deal with puppy mills. It is going to hurt responsible breeders such as myself, who do have a number of intact females but I only produce 2 litters a year. From how I understand it, ANYONE who would ship a puppy or sell “sight unseen” would need to be inspected in order to do so. Bloodlines will suffer.


5 posted on 06/15/2012 7:01:23 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie

Oh, and this applies to ALL breeding animals. Obviously the AKC is only interested in the puppies aspect, but this pertains to livestock and any other type of animal that is raised and sold.


6 posted on 06/15/2012 7:03:14 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie
Previous thread I started on here about the USDA's regulations:

USDA seeks change to regulate Internet pet sales
7 posted on 06/15/2012 7:07:02 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie
Bloodlines indeed would suffer, especially those of the lesser known breeds.

Many of our local breeders of hunting test dogs seek out puppies from bloodlines in other parts of the country.

I have a lovely dog from probably the premier breeder of field trial Labradors in the country. She is a wonderful lady, very down to earth and not at all too proud to talk to a little amateur dog owner like me.

I bought one of her puppies and had the little girl shipped to me via air, rather than spend a week driving all the way across the country and back with a squirming little puppy in a crate for 2-3 days! Better she should spend an uncomfortable hour than TWO DAYS (and she was SO glad to see me when I opened up the crate door).

8 posted on 06/15/2012 7:08:54 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

The USDA is the same lovely organization that wants you to keep records about every chicken, sheep, horse, cow, goat, or dog on your property and fill out paperwork whenever you take it off the property. Take your dog hunting? The USDA wants to know. Take your horses for a trail ride? It’s the government’s business.

Very disturbing. We need to fire federal employees who have this controlling, totalitarian mindset.


9 posted on 06/15/2012 7:09:30 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare)
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To: AnAmericanMother

They are trying to stop the breeding of animals of ANY kind in your home(dogs, cats, chickens, cows , pigs, birds, etc.)

The large commercial breeders want to put people like me out of business. These are the people who sell to your local pet shops.


10 posted on 06/15/2012 7:12:53 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: Gennie

The Humane Society and PETA are the folks pushing this legislation.


11 posted on 06/15/2012 7:15:22 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: AnAmericanMother
You are right! I breed German Shepherds, which while it is a very common breed, I focus on specific lines that are something a bit different than what other breeders may desire. I have never shipped one my puppies, BUT I would like to keep that option open in the future. In addition, from a bloodline perspective, of having the option to get a pup or dog shipped TO ME in the future.

Most hobby breeders such as myself would never want to put the time and money (IF they can afford it!) in to fulfill some sort of insane regulations (I've seen references to concrete exercise areas, stainless steel whelping boxes, etc.). They are not worried about animal welfare though, just control. State laws vary, but most seem to deal with larger scale breeders, so I don't see how they would prevent anything.
12 posted on 06/15/2012 7:17:21 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: woodbutcher1963
When the HSUS gives it a standing ovation, you KNOW it's bad!

The Humane Society of the United States and the Humane Society Legislative Fund applaud U.S. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and the U.S. Department of Agriculture for issuing a proposed rule designed to close the loophole in the Animal Welfare Act regulations that has allowed thousands of large-scale commercial puppy mills to operate without federal inspections or oversight, particularly operations that sell over the Internet.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/05/hsus_applauds_usda_proposal_puppy_mills_051012.html
13 posted on 06/15/2012 7:21:05 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: ottbmare
Only way to stop the totalitarian mindset is at the top. The fish rots from the head down.

Only problem is, Obama has stuffed the agencies with his totalitarian-minded drones, and the Republicans are just "too nice" to fire their hindquarters.

Bush II had terrible problems with the people Clinton had parked in State and Justice, and since he was under the illusion that all you had to do was be 'nice' to these people and they would see the light, most of them are still there, augmented by Obama's minions.

14 posted on 06/15/2012 7:25:05 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Gennie
You have to watch the time of year and your airline, and make careful arrangements.

But this breeder has shipped many times before. She gave me very detailed instructions on what to do at my end. Worked out great, three cheers for Midwest Express, they took really good care of my puppy.

15 posted on 06/15/2012 7:27:37 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Gennie

Yo! Stay away from my B*tch$!

16 posted on 06/15/2012 7:33:42 AM PDT by WakeUpAndVote
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To: AnAmericanMother

I don’t think it’s that hard to ship, when I’ve called the airlines just to check on it and from talking with other breeders it seems fairly easy but we just have not done it. What’s interesting is that USDA is claiming a lot of people are getting “sick” dogs because they are not seeing them before purchase, BUT...the dogs need to have a health certificate stating that they are healthy and must be vet checked within 10 days of shipping. If dogs are being sent sick to their new owners, why are the veterinarians signing off on them? Why aren’t THEY being looked into for being shoddy vets?


17 posted on 06/15/2012 7:43:52 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; afraidfortherepublic; ...
WOOOF!

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

18 posted on 06/15/2012 7:53:02 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: AnAmericanMother

How right you are (as ever)!


19 posted on 06/15/2012 8:16:10 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare)
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To: Gennie

Poodles By Design screens new owners and ships healthy beauties.


20 posted on 06/15/2012 8:38:32 AM PDT by Equalizer (Lord, protect us all from the evil one.)
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To: Equalizer

If this ends up going through, and unless they want to be open to regulations, they will no longer be able to ship, along with a lot of other responsible breeders :(


21 posted on 06/15/2012 9:10:32 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Equalizer

If this ends up going through, and unless they want to be open to regulations and inspections, they will no longer be able to ship, along with a lot of other responsible breeders :(


22 posted on 06/15/2012 9:10:58 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: ottbmare

( takes a bow )

23 posted on 06/15/2012 9:34:00 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Gennie
I happily paid for a proper "vet check" before my pup was shipped.

Some of the 'complaints' may be due to change in diet, drinking water, etc. Assuming the USDA is not lying. But I never assume that any more.

24 posted on 06/15/2012 9:39:08 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Well, they are "claiming" this but of course there's never going to be 100% anyway, I'm sure some sick pups pass through. What they are claiming is because these people bought the dogs "sight unseen", they got a defective puppy for whatever reason.

"We feel this is certainly a much-needed change to an outdated system," said Rebecca Blue, deputy undersecretary for marketing and regulatory programs.

The change does not affect backyard breeders who sell puppies from their homes or other physical locations. Blue said it's designed to ensure that dogs sold and shipped to buyers are healthy, treated well and genetically sound.


http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120517/GJLIFESTYLES/120519935/-1/FOSLIFESTYLES

What's funny is that they think that if you see the parents first before buying, that will automatically guarantee you a healthy pup, which is hogwash anyway because breeding is a gamble and even if you have healthy parents genetic issues may show up. You could see the parents but they may be full brother and sister and therefore the pups MAY have genetic issues the parents did not have, but even in unrelated dogs bred together seeing the parents isn't going to 100% guarantee your pup WON'T have issues anyway.
25 posted on 06/15/2012 10:03:00 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: woodbutcher1963

Exactly. What is even worse, the puppy mills will get off scot-free while all the attention is focused on ethical breeders. PLEASE be heard on this issue. The ultimate goal is not only that breeding is stopped, but that companion animals (in addition to livestock) are outlawed, entirely. There has been- & is, legislation in every state (also locally) toward this very thing (e.g. pet limits & mandatory spay/ neuter) for several years now. Wayne Pacelle has stated openly that he hopes for the *extinction* of dogs. HSUS & PETA do *nothing* to “help” animals. They are about political power & control ONLY.
If you are so inclined, join one of the groups who are fighting back.

In Texas, responsiblepetowners.org
In California, petpac.org

Also see wwwhumanewatch.org for more information


26 posted on 06/15/2012 10:27:35 AM PDT by KGeorge
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To: Gennie

We also breed GSDs. This, if put into effect, will kill us. We only breed 2-4 litters per year, but have 8 breeding females in various stages of growing out, in active breeding and training, and retirement. (We don’t generally spay our retired females, as we uncomfortable putting them under anesthesia at that age. They would be classified as breeding females, even though they might be 11-12 years old...) We regularly have 2-4 puppies and young dogs growing out, waiting until they are old enough for orthopedic certifications at 2 years. The regulations classify any intact female over 4 MONTHS OLD as a breeding female. It is ridiculous!! They are treating responsible hobby breeders as puppy mills!

But folks, the issue here is not shipping: it is internet sales! If you advertise/sell over the internet you are subject to these regulations. Doesn’t matter if you ship or not. And who does not have a website with dogs and puppies listed for sale? It is the only rational way to conduct business today. There is never enough local clients to sell all your puppies into good homes, you have to sell to non-local clients. This will kill that!

Go to the AKC website and sign the petition!

(If this goes through, this will destroy US breeders, and unfortunately, the breeds.)


27 posted on 06/15/2012 10:53:22 AM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: LaRueLaDue
You are right!!! Everyone needs to be aware of how serious this is. As far as the internet sales go, I imagine that EVEN though I do not ship, because I take deposits with people only seeing pics and/or videos, it would include. I do not know if just merely having a website alone is enough, but if you take a deposit, or even offer to meet people somewhere with the dog (I have, because sometimes we travel), you'd need to comply with the regulations and inspections. It will destroy not only whole breeds but bloodlines as well. And as I keep saying, it doesn't even apply to just dogs...but livestock. I don't know and maybe someone else does, but I'm guessing there would be farmers affected by this too, who may be unaware!

LaRueLaDue, since you breed GSDs you may be interested in this if you deal with the importing pups (I don't, but considered importing from UK once and would like to someday!). From this article:

Deborah Howard, president of the Companion Animal Protection Society (www.CAPS-web.org), laments the proliferation of Internet puppy dealers. “One should never, ever buy a dog on the Internet because you’re not seeing the conditions under which the puppy is being raised,” she said. “There are no good ones because reputable breeders don’t sell puppies this way. This [the new USDA rules] is a double whammy…a $10,000 fine for selling over the internet without a license, per dog, and $10,000 for each dog imported from outside the US under 6 months of age. CAPS is going to be keeping tabs on these Internet sellers and sellers of imported puppies and we will be providing some of our many Internet consumer complaints to the USDA in support of the proposed regulation. They’re going to have their hands full.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/usda-proposes-new-rule-to-regulate-internet-dog-dealers

It sounds like people will no longer be able to import dogs younger than 6 months.
28 posted on 06/15/2012 11:17:42 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: KGeorge

We are members of D.O.G.S.
Dog Owners of the Granite State.
Along with the mushers, it seems we are up at the state house in Concord, NH at least once a year to fight this type of legislation. They try to push through something every year through the sponsorship of some well meaning but misinformed politition.


29 posted on 06/15/2012 12:27:22 PM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: Gennie

Yeah, I had seen this... My blood boils every time I see this...

This Deborah Howard is a blithering idiot. She obviously doesn’t know anything about purebred dogs and how they are bred, cared for, etc. by most hobby breeders. She cannot distiguish between puppy mills and reputable breeders.

This whole thing just needs to be totally repudiated.

If they implement this, it will kill our breed, as it will eliminate getting in new bloodlines from out of the country, and will eliminate placing and getting dogs outside of your local area. She must think that dogs should only be local and should have no interaction outside of your house. It is unbelievably stupid. These people have not clue on how to do anything but destroy other people’s livelihoods...


30 posted on 06/15/2012 1:50:58 PM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: LaRueLaDue
I had not known about the fines and restrictions on imports until that article, that's even more disgusting. Actually, if you look at the link, you will see the author of the article who believes this is a GOOD thing on there arguing with some breeders who have posted. The person does not believe it will harm anyone but commercial kennels :-O The amazing thing is she isn't reading the legislation and comprehending it!!!

The fact is that how it is written puts anyone from the SMALLEST hobby breeder that "sells over the internet" to the largest puppy mills that are most likely ALREADY inspected. I am not feeling up to logging onto my kennel Facebook account and debating though, but if this goes through I do not know what I am going to do even though I have not shipped pups, I wanted to keep that option open should the economy turn worse. I am assuming that you would not even be able to take a deposit to hold a pup "sight unseen".

It seems to me that in a way, this would actually PROMOTE a local puppy mill. Rather than the internet, they would have to resort to selling their dogs locally in the classifieds, possibly for a cheaper price, and then producing more of them.
31 posted on 06/15/2012 2:14:21 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie

Yep, you got it.

We hobby breeders are screwed if this goes into effect. 25+ years of training/breeding experience made useless by some uneducated, “feel-good-about-myself” bureaucrat. I loath these people for what they are trying to do... One more example of what is wrong with this country, but it is hitting home hard...


32 posted on 06/15/2012 2:35:01 PM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: Gennie

This move by USDA is going to absolutely bloat the agency beyond all reason, assuming it’s actually followed. This is an absurd “solution” to essentially a non-existent problem and sweeps up large numbers of serious dog and cat lovers who’ve dedicated years to their animals.

Keep in mind, those of you who even think for a minute this is a good thing. Sweeping a breeder who has as few as 4 unspayed, over-4 month old females (who may or may not be in the owner’s breeding program), but who might have sent a puppy to ONE purchaser several states away condemns that seller to NOT being able to let his or her dogs live in the owner’s house. Yes, you read that right. Those dogs are prohibited from ever lying on the couch, by the fire, or having their litters in the owner’s bedroom.

This is horrific for the welfare not only of the dogs, which will not get the socialization needed to make sensible pets, it will destroy people’s lives - those animals are an enormous part of their lives. And, remember, this is nothing but a scheme to bloat government with more unnecessary workers and more bureaucratic layers.

There are already laws on the books to address animal cruelty and neglect. This nightmare of a plan will punish not only the human beings, it will drastically change the lives of their animals - not in a positive way.


33 posted on 06/16/2012 5:43:16 AM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: LaRueLaDue

Exactly :( If this passes, I don’t know what I’m going to do, as I have intact females that I have not bred but did want to have one litter out of and part of the reason I have the amount of dogs I do is for specific lineage. What a shame, this really will wipe out whole breeds and specific bloodlines.


34 posted on 06/16/2012 12:28:32 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Darnright

You are right about it, the restrictions and regulations (I have not looked into it but I think I said earlier, something about stainless steel whelping boxes, ALL CONCRETE for flooring, etc.) would not be able to be done in people’s homes who are just hobby breeders. So sad :(


35 posted on 06/16/2012 12:30:37 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie

Yeah, we are in kind of the same boat, but most of the intact females we have right now are either too young to get their mandatory health screenings and certifications (therefore, we don’t even know if they are worth breeding yet), or are retired and will not be bred again. We really only have two females right now that I would consider “breeding females” and one of these we will probably only breed once. (That is out of 10 intact females we have right now: 3 retired, 5 growing out, 2 ready to breed). Like you, a lot of our dogs we only breed once or twice, for similar reasons that you stated.

Yes, this will play havoc with pure bred dog fanciers. It will destroy it as a hobby/sport, and will decimate breed-specific sports and breed shows, etc.


36 posted on 06/16/2012 1:19:54 PM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: Darnright
Yeah, the idea that “breeding dogs” need to be segregated into concrete kennels, whelp their puppies in sterile, cold, stainless steel boxes, etc., goes to show just how IGNORANT the people that conceived of and wrote the regulations are!

We have outdoor kennels (wood, not concrete) for the dogs that don't come inside, but all get to spend some time inside at some point in their lives, particularly on retirement (our house is the dog retirement home!). We generally have between 6-10 dogs inside with us at any one time (not including the 5 cats, and assorted guinea pigs, turtles, fish, gerbils).

We are not a puppy mill cranking out pups by the dozen all year and selling pups to all comers indiscriminately like a retail pet store! We rarely have more that 3 litters a year. We whelp ALL our litters inside, either in the kitchen or the adjoining room, and the pups do not get outside until their shots (after 6 weeks). We are extremely careful of letting outside visitors in during the time the pups are most vulnerable to disease (we mostly prohibit it). And we are very careful on selecting individual pups for individual owners, through careful screening of the prospective clients, and by living with and closely observing the pups through the first 8-9 weeks of their lives.

We do not need anyone looking over our shoulder telling us how to raise and care for our dogs, when they don't have anywhere near the experience that we do. They haven't a clue on what they are trying to regulate! (I doubt any of them even have pets... and even if they did, caring for pets is quite different from caring for breeding animals.)

These proposed regulations would prohibit all this! Talk about hypocrisy...

37 posted on 06/16/2012 1:44:19 PM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: Gennie

USDA regulations were written for commercial breeding establishments or for USDA brokers, not for hobbyists. The people who wrote them never intended them for the latter.

USDA regulations require separate housing, separate plumbing/sewer and the flooring and whelping materials you mention. Once again, this was never meant for the non-commercial, hobby dog or cat fancier.

The current administration has been using USDA as a plaything for some time now. People got payouts for being “minority farmers”, who have never seen a farm, much less who ever made a dime from farming. This is more of the same: make-work government jobs for imaginary work. Oh, and the fines will work great to redistribute more wealth from middle class people.


38 posted on 06/16/2012 2:23:55 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: LaRueLaDue

>We are not a puppy mill cranking out pups by the dozen all year and selling pups to all comers indiscriminately like a retail pet store!<

But, for USDA’s purposes, we in the hobby side of dog breeding have been shielded for generations because of this wording. USDA’s definition of “retail” is NOT a bad thing. You want to be considered to be under this umbrella.

“Retail” means, for these purposes, that you sell to the “end user”, aka the dog’s forever home. You do not sell to pet stores, who are also retail in that they sell to the dog’s final (one would hope) home.


39 posted on 06/16/2012 2:30:49 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: LaRueLaDue

Everything you say to me sounds like you are EXACTLY how we are. I am completely legal in my own state, Pennsylvania, because I stay under the limit. If you have 26 or more dogs and pups on your property, you need a license. Like the author of that piece I posted argued, they probably wouldn’t try to come after you or me, but the fact that they have it worded so they COULD means they don’t just care about large scale breeders, nor do they care about the animals. They just want power.


40 posted on 06/16/2012 3:07:00 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Darnright
LOL I'm sorry, but the very wording of this means ANYONE who sells over the internet means they did intend this as a catch-all. While they may not be FOCUSED on cracking down on people like yourself or me, they will have the power to do so if this happens. Remember though, it's not just pertaining to cats and dogs, but any animal, including livestock.

What gets me about all of this is they are claiming that all of these people are being sold sick dogs over the internet. These puppies are supposed to be certified healthy by a veterinarian before being flown, and while I have not shipped a pup when I have inquired I know for Pennsylvania it is 10 day limit from the time the pup is vet checked and certified until they are put on a plane.
41 posted on 06/16/2012 3:11:57 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Darnright

Well, I haven’t examined the USDA’s definition of retail yet, so I have no comment on whether or not the definition is good or not.

However, I would argue that I don’t want to be under anyone’s umbrella, particularly the USDA. I don’t think that being “shielded” from the USDA previously for generations is a bad thing. Nearly anything that the Federal government gets it hands on turns sour sooner or later. This sort of regulation is precisly what should be left to the state and local authorities. There are existing regulations at Federal, state and local levels that can deal with whatever perceived problem these new regulations are purported to solve. Uniform regulations for ALL dog breeding at any scale at the Federal/National level is ridiculous, and is just a solution looking for a problem.

If this goes into effect, hobby/small breeders will disappear (or go underground), and so will most of the breeds that benefit from this sort of breeding style. And it will happen sooner than anyone thinks...


42 posted on 06/16/2012 4:15:29 PM PDT by LaRueLaDue
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To: woodbutcher1963

Happy to meet you! Every state needs organizations like this. God Willing, as pet owners become better informed, more & more will get involved.
Make no mistake: those “donations” they collect “to help homeless & abused animals” (& of which, animals in need see less than 2%) don’t just go to pay for their fat salaries & “expenses” or their glossy, full color mass mailings & “free gifts”- It goes straight into the pockets of many of those ‘well meaning but misinformed’ politicians.
Where are the politicians who will stop this scam? It’s fraud.


43 posted on 06/18/2012 6:41:59 PM PDT by KGeorge
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