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Affirmative Action in Olympic Gymnastics?

Posted on 07/30/2012 8:36:30 AM PDT by tonyome

Did anyone else watch the Olympic women's gymnastics last night? One of the young girls on the U.S. team is black. She is a great gymnast, but during last night's competition, she fell off the balance beam, and took several steps out of bounds on the floor exercise, yet beat out a fellow teammate to advance to the All Around final, even though her teammate made far less mistakes in her routines on the balance beam and floor exercise. I know nothing about Olympics Gymnastics judging, but even one of the NBC commentators remarked that her floor exercise routine "was scored much higher than I thought it would be". In my opinion, I think the judges gave the girl a break because she was black. Some people might be offended by that comment, but it looked fairly obvious to me.


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: affirmativeaction; olympics
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1 posted on 07/30/2012 8:36:34 AM PDT by tonyome
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To: tonyome

I take it you didn’t watch the qualifying rounds? (it has been replayed on USN this past week) She was unbelievably good, blowing the others out of the water.

Sometimes athletes choke or have a bad day.

It is pretty insulting to these athletes to assume affirmative action.


2 posted on 07/30/2012 8:38:58 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: tonyome

Didn’t see it......but let’s just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised.


3 posted on 07/30/2012 8:39:55 AM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: tonyome

And you’re surprised?

[any idea when/if any equestrian events are scheduled?]


4 posted on 07/30/2012 8:39:55 AM PDT by Salamander (I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.)
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To: tonyome

Olympics gymnsatics why watch at all?


5 posted on 07/30/2012 8:40:41 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: tonyome

Also, while she may have had what the media may have thought was going out of bounds, first, the media isn’t the judge and the judge may have seen it differently, second, her routine was far more complicated than the others who seemed at times to play it safe.


6 posted on 07/30/2012 8:40:41 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: tonyome

I watched the raw feed of the gymnastics. The judges got the results correct. Remember that starting difficulty matters a lot, not just execution.

The real “affirmative action” is the rule that a single country can only place two competitors in the individual all-around final. Wieber was 4th overall, but will have to sit out while 21 girls she out-scored get to compete.


7 posted on 07/30/2012 8:42:42 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: mnehring
I do not agree with the poster (yet) on the affirmative action issue, however I would question this comment:

Sometimes athletes choke or have a bad day.

And when this occurs in a judged performance they should be scored appropriately for those errors. By saying she was excellent in the preliminary rounds, are you suggesting that her performance there should be considered on future rounds?

8 posted on 07/30/2012 8:43:04 AM PDT by Michael.SF. (Bain Capital would not have bought into Solyndra)
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To: mnehring

“It is pretty insulting to these athletes to assume affirmative action.”

But we do live in a ‘different world’, now.

Even if she blazed through the past qualifying rounds, her current performance was what was being judged, wasn’t it?


9 posted on 07/30/2012 8:43:12 AM PDT by Salamander (I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.)
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To: tonyome
yet beat out a fellow teammate to advance to the All Around final,

She advanced because her total scores were high...She screwed up in several things but did exceptionally well in her other routines..They take all the cores and mesh them together.

Gabby is an exceptional gymnast. There was no affirmative action going on...

10 posted on 07/30/2012 8:44:26 AM PDT by trailhkr1
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To: Salamander

See my post #10.


11 posted on 07/30/2012 8:45:56 AM PDT by trailhkr1
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To: All

“Everyone get’s a trophy”. Just for showing up. It’s the new world of PC.


12 posted on 07/30/2012 8:46:28 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: tonyome; All

your statement is totally ridiculous- she is a tremendous gymnast and whatever her color i am glad she’s on our (USA) team...

the affirmative action comes in as only two gymnasts from each team are allowed to compete for the individual honor of best gymnast; that’s a joke as the American team is five deep and there are now inferior gymnasts now competing for the individual competition while great American gymnasts are sitting on the sidelines...


13 posted on 07/30/2012 8:46:49 AM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: tonyome

i avoid the feminized profile after profile Olympics coverage- I wish we could bring back Cosel et al and the thrill of victory and not the agony of another effing profile.
That being said , if aa applies, lets hope she is at least a real african American with authentic slave blood.


14 posted on 07/30/2012 8:47:17 AM PDT by hecht (restore Hetch-Hetchy, and screw San Francisco and Pelosi)
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To: tonyome; All

your statement is totally ridiculous- she is a tremendous gymnast and whatever her color i am glad she’s on our (USA) team...

the affirmative action comes in as only two gymnasts from each team are allowed to compete for the individual honor of best gymnast; that’s a joke as the American team is five deep and there are now inferior gymnasts now competing for the individual competition while great American gymnasts are sitting on the sidelines...


15 posted on 07/30/2012 8:47:17 AM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: mnehring; tonyome
Also, while she may have had what the media may have thought was going out of bounds, first, the media isn’t the judge and the judge may have seen it differently, second, her routine was far more complicated than the others who seemed at times to play it safe.

Exactly, especially about the difficulty level - that does count for more.

16 posted on 07/30/2012 8:47:27 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: Michael.SF.

See the other comment (I should have put them in one). The point was, she is an amazing athlete who did a much more difficult routine than the others. Just because the media claims something is out of bounds, doesn’t mean it was or the judges saw it. She also may have been given more points for the level of difficulty versus doing safe routines like many of her competitors.

All of this arm chair quarterbacking and assuming the worst in everything gets pretty old.


17 posted on 07/30/2012 8:48:02 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: tonyome

No the real affirmative action is the US girl who finished 4th overall and is disqualified from being in the final because of the “only two per country” rule as two other American’s finished 2nd and 3rd. That means someone form another country gets a spot in the final she did not earn.


18 posted on 07/30/2012 8:48:08 AM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
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To: trailhkr1

Okay but no word on equestrian events?

They’re the only Olympic things I’ve watched since Ono got knocked flat while skating and the judges didn’t give a flip.


19 posted on 07/30/2012 8:49:03 AM PDT by Salamander (I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.)
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To: kevkrom
The real “affirmative action” is the rule that a single country can only place two competitors in the individual all-around final

It's like only allowing 2 SEC teams to go to BCS Bowls.

20 posted on 07/30/2012 8:51:11 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: tonyome

The black girl was the only one who smiled. The rest acted like Soviet union robots from the 60’s.


21 posted on 07/30/2012 8:52:24 AM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: mnehring

She was out of bounds big time. There is a pic, btw she continued going out of bounds all the way to the pink. Judges hit her hard for the mistake, but her scores on the other 3 events were good enough to give she a second in the all around.

That really sucks is the girl that finished 4th overall and the current world champion does not get to compete since each team can only send 2 girls to the finals.

22 posted on 07/30/2012 8:52:54 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: tonyome

And another thing, this wasn’t about Douglas taking a spot away from Wieber — the situation only occurred because of an exceptionally strong performance by Abby Raisman, who simply out-performed her teammates Douglas and Wieber, both of whom were favorites going into the Olympics.

Neither of the other two members of the team could qualify because only those three performed all four events.

Raisman finished 2nd in the individual all-around, 1st on floor, and 5th on beam. She has a chance at 4 medals (including the team event).

Douglas was 3rd overall, 6th on the bar and 3rd on the beam, also with a chance at 4 medals.

Wieber (floor, 6th), Maroney (vault, 1st), and Ross (beam, 6th) all have chances for the team medal and one event final.


23 posted on 07/30/2012 8:53:17 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: mnehring

It is not just based on who made fewer mistakes, but the start value of the routine; i.e, which routine contained harder, more difficult to execute tricks and then you start deducting from there. Yes, Gabby Douglas made an obvious big mistake, but the judges make those deductions from the “start value” of her routine which gives you the final score. Her start value was higher than Jordyn Wieber’s. Gabby Douglas has already beaten Jordyn Weiber twice. I also agree that limiting each country to 2 athletes in the all-around part of the competition is a stupid rule. The top 24 should complete period. Lets hope that this episode will change that rule in the future.


24 posted on 07/30/2012 8:53:41 AM PDT by bella1 (As it was in the days of Lot.....)
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To: tonyome
I know nothing about Olympics Gymnastics judging

You should have stopped right there, I'm afraid.

25 posted on 07/30/2012 8:54:17 AM PDT by DSH
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To: Salamander

99/100 = GOLD MEDAL

26 posted on 07/30/2012 8:55:01 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Didn’t see it but smirked smugly, anyway...:)


27 posted on 07/30/2012 8:58:00 AM PDT by Salamander (I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.)
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To: tonyome

She didn’t fall off the balance beam. Where did you get that from?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/gymnastics/highlight-gabby-douglas-on-beam-in-qualification.html?chrcontext=team-usa


28 posted on 07/30/2012 8:58:38 AM PDT by RightFighter (It was all for nothing.)
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To: kevkrom

You wrote: “The real “affirmative action” is the rule that a single country can only place two competitors in the individual all-around final. Wieber was 4th overall, but will have to sit out while 21 girls she out-scored get to compete.”

I agree; pretty messed up. I don’t think any of the other sports have this rule.


29 posted on 07/30/2012 8:58:38 AM PDT by Joe Marine 76 ("It's The Natural Born Citizenship, Stupid!")
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To: God luvs America

Agree 100% with your post, and by the way, the OP is wrong about Gabby falling off the balance beam. She did not fall off the beam, rather had a great routine. I feel very bad for the girl who got bumped out of the individual all-around (current world champ, I understand). She is very much worthy, but she too stepped OB on the floor routine (barely). The tragedy is the “only two girls from any one country” rule for individual all-around. Our team is very strong and unfortunately that’s how it worked out. The black girl was a pleasure to watch though, as were the others on our solid team.


30 posted on 07/30/2012 9:01:17 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: Joe Marine 76

I think it’s messed up even in gymnastics. As far as I know, 3 of the girls all qualified for the beam final, and I don’t hear anyone saying they won’t be allowed to do it. It seems to just apply to the individual all-around, or no one’s made a fuss over Ross being left out of the beam.

Because of her high score, Wieber would be allowed to do the all-around if one of her teammates had to pull out because of an injury (that happened to Kerri Strug in ‘96 — she couldn’t go on that bad leg after the team final).


31 posted on 07/30/2012 9:03:11 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: tonyome

Never occured to me.


32 posted on 07/30/2012 9:04:06 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Running in circles and screaming is not a strategy.)
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To: kevkrom

Thanks.


33 posted on 07/30/2012 9:09:04 AM PDT by Joe Marine 76 ("It's The Natural Born Citizenship, Stupid!")
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To: Salamander

If you’re gonna smirk, be sure to do it smugly.


34 posted on 07/30/2012 9:10:42 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: tonyome

Sorry, but I’ve always held that any “Sport” that determines the results as someone’s opinion, to me is NOT a sport: floor exercises, ice skating, balance beams, etc. Any time that someone’s opinion has to be summoned, it is not a sport.

I mean, ballet is not a sport . . . so how come floor exercises or figure skating IS!


35 posted on 07/30/2012 9:13:13 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: laweeks

So... baseball isn’t a sport, because an umpire has to call balls and strikes? Basketball doesn’t count because the referee decides what is and isn’t a foul? Football/hockey the same with penalties?

Pretty much leaves only things that can be explicitly done by computer (archery, shooting, race timing — except swimming, which has stroke and turn judging — etc.)


36 posted on 07/30/2012 9:18:49 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: kevkrom

This is starting to turn into a George Carlin routine.


37 posted on 07/30/2012 9:20:23 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Mich Patriot

i believe she (Gabby) was far and away the best gymnast during the Olympic trials....there’s such a thing as peaking as and athlete and that what Gabby seems to be doing....my heart broke for Jordan Weiber not making the individual finals- its complete BS...sort of like three teams in the AFC North going 11-5 and the NFL saying “sorry- you can only have two teams from each division in the playoffs”...a complete joke...

i’ve been to the games four times (’84/LA, ‘88/Calgary, ‘96/Atl, ‘02/SLC) and this PC/affirmative action has been creeping in...i also trained for the olympics for ten years (track and field) and it used to be there was one standard and if you met it you got in the games...now there’s an A standard for the countries with good athletes and B standard for the countries whose athletes suck and they let inferior athletes in...everyone loved the Jamaican bobsled team in 1988- but they had absolutely no right to be there...ditto for British ski jumper Eddie the eagle for those who remember him....


38 posted on 07/30/2012 9:22:29 AM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: RightFighter; tonyome
She didn’t fall off the balance beam. Where did you get that from?

She never fell off the beam in her official routine. She did fall off while warming up...

39 posted on 07/30/2012 9:23:36 AM PDT by trailhkr1
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To: tonyome

The contest of political correctness trumps all.


40 posted on 07/30/2012 9:24:57 AM PDT by pallis
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To: dfwgator
Perhaps, but I hate logical fallacies. "Gymnastics isn't a 'sport' because there's a subjective component" doesn't hold up when measured against other sports, most of which have some subjective component.

The fact is that the scoring refinements over the years have made gymnastics much less subjective than they've been in the past. Start value minus deductions means the pressure to award "perfect 10s" is gone and the judges can critique each routine on its own without having to worry about having to balance difficulty vs. execution; they're now focused solely on execution, with difficulty already factored in.

Of course, you still have the chance for getting a biased/crooked judge, but there's only a handful of sports that can operate with no subjective officiating, and those come down to raw timing and accuracy events.

41 posted on 07/30/2012 9:25:47 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: kevkrom
So... baseball isn’t a sport, because an umpire has to call balls and strikes?

Sorry, but very poor example. The outcome of the game is decided on things that players have done. There can be occasional disputes over balls and strikes, but you're either out or your not.

Ballet, figure skating, and floor routines are truly a fine art, but not a sport. If you think not, then tell me why ballet is not a sport.

And if ballet is not a sport, then tell me the real difference between the two: Lots of hard work, routines to be memorized, then done over and over again . . . to music on top of it all. Can't find a difference.

42 posted on 07/30/2012 9:26:16 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: tonyome

It’s a judged sport. Everything is subjective, nothing is absolute, it’s why people make fun of judged sports.


43 posted on 07/30/2012 9:27:05 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: tonyome

My take on this is that I don’t think there’s blatant affirmative-actioning going on with Gabby. She’s definitely a tremendous performer and deserves to be up there. Sucks that Wieber has to be robbed because of the limitations of the rules.

At the same time, I’m pretty confident that our good old pal Big Lefty Media gets excited more than usual when a black person has a chance at gold, especially in a sport that they have not been dominant in. As Rush said, the media is desirous to see a black person do well. They savor the moments when they can say “X is the first black to do Y”. I couldn’t help but notice the SI cover with the US girl’s team, and they stuck Gabby front and center.


44 posted on 07/30/2012 9:29:22 AM PDT by lado
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To: laweeks
I agree. It is performance art or something like that but not a sport.
45 posted on 07/30/2012 9:29:29 AM PDT by apocalypto
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To: tonyome

During an interview following the routines, Gabby was asked how she deals with the nervousness of competing in the Olympics. She smiled broadly and proudly responded that she “meditates on Scripture”, and said, “The Bible really helps me out.”

She deserves affirmative action just for that.
She is a great gymnast. Go, Gabby!


46 posted on 07/30/2012 9:31:42 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: tonyome
Nope...you are incorrect on this one. Gaby has sweated, worked her butt off like all the others and earned every point she got.

You demonstrate one of the real evils of affirmative actions (I'm not saying you're evil, I'm sure you're a fair, good guy since you're a Freeper): it makes us suspicious of individual achievements of members of the groups benefiting from this awful law (mainly African Americans). Other Freepers have pointed out that while in the floor-ex she stumbled, she was that great doing very hard routines in the others to come in second.

47 posted on 07/30/2012 9:33:55 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: kevkrom

College Football is subjective, too.


48 posted on 07/30/2012 9:34:26 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: laweeks

I can’t tell you why ballet is not performed as a sport; other forms of dancing (most notably, ballroom) are, though not at the Olympic level.

And the umpires’ decisions, while in most cases clear-cut, do affect the outcome of a baseball game. But it’s really the strike zone, which varies from umpire to umpire (and to hear pitchers and catchers complain, from pitch to pitch!) that has a major impact on what pitches get thrown and their locations, and which dramatically effects the outcome of the game.

In the other sports I mentioned, the style of officiating often can affect how a game plays out. Referees who clamp down on defensive holding allow offenses to air it out more freely in football, while those who let a lot slide result in forcing teams to adapt their game plans accordingly.

So it is with gymnastics, figure skating, etc. The judges don’t directly affect the performance at the time, but the competitors (especially at the top levels) know the judges and what they’re looking for, and adapt accordingly. How is that fundamentally different?


49 posted on 07/30/2012 9:35:08 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: kevkrom
In the other sports I mentioned, the style of officiating often can affect how a game plays out.

Whenever you get judges' results like 98.5, 97, 99.25, and 98.3 from any kind of a panel, you do not at that time have a sport. You have opinions of a performance, and not an honest rendering of the actual performance . . . and that's what it is . . . a performance.

It actually gauls me when people get all choked up over one low result of 4 or 5 panelists and have them consider that a sport.

Baseball is never decided on a panel of opinions.

50 posted on 07/30/2012 9:41:15 AM PDT by laweeks
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