Posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by fabian
I'm happy you have found peace, but if that peace comes at the cost of your eternal life, what value does it really have? Jesus clearly said that we will DIE IN OUR SINS if we do not believe He is who He claims to be - and that IS God in the flesh. What is it about this tenet that Masters has convinced you it is not true? Why does denial of this truth determine the success or failure of his methods. Because, to be honest with you, I am highly suspicious of it. Jesus said, "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?"
Actually, they were blind because they could not see their God right in front of them, unlike Thomas. Jn. 12:34-46; 20:28
Now i know i am tired, as that last one was for fabian.
Regarding the paragraphs, yes, i have trouble also, and was aghast when i saw how my carefully paragraphed post was rendered! I must always use the preview for long posts.
Time to sleep; have a God night.
You are putting too much importance on him supposedly being God. He said, and Roy teaches too, that if we judge, we will be judged. Forgive us, as we forgive....not being annoyed by people’s thoughtlessness daily....is exactly what Roy teaches. There are actually people around the world that learn that patient love that know very little to nothing about Jesus of history, but still will be saved because they have that holy spirit and learn to live by it. You are intellectualizing your “salvation” and thereby missing it.
I think it is you and/or Roy Masters who are putting too LITTLE importance on Jesus being God in the flesh! In order for Jesus to be the redeemer, he HAD to be God, because ONLY God taking on human form can live a completely holy and sinless life in order to give that life upon the cross as propitiation for the sins of the world. Belief in who Jesus is comes part and parcel with trusting in Him to BE the Savior. There is no "supposedly" about it - Jesus made that quite clear as did ALL the writers of the New Testament books as did many of the Old Testament prophets when they prophesied about the coming Messiah. There's no getting around that very important truth! And I again question why Masters minimizes or distorts that central tenet of the Christian faith. ALL false cults and false religions DENY the deity of Jesus Christ. That should be a HUGE warning light for you.
There are actually people around the world that learn that patient love that know very little to nothing about Jesus of history, but still will be saved because they have that holy spirit and learn to live by it.
These "people" around the world will NOT be saved if they reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ no matter how well they learn to live by Masters' philosophy. If he is teaching that, it SHOULD be another reason to reject the man as a false prophet. No one "gets" the Holy Spirit unless they are born again through faith in Jesus Christ. It doesn't happen by meditating and learning to be patient with people.
You are intellectualizing your “salvation” and thereby missing it.
I don't see how you can say I am "missing" my salvation - you do not know me. I praise the Lord every day for His grace and mercy that saved me. What you call "intellectualizing" is nothing more than obeying the commands of Christ to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. It is also obeying Him to be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks of the reason for the hope within me, with respect and gentleness. We are told to study the Word, preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. In other words, we are NOT supposed to be ignorant of what we believe nor why we believe it. The eternal destiny of souls depends upon it - and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)
What does being mad have to do with it? Upon review of the passage, I did relate the wrong section to your use of "dummy," but the essential point stands. In Matt 5:22, Jesus cites three different conditions, any of which would constitute sin.
The first is unjustified anger. The second is calling someone stupid (apparently, raca = dummy). The third is to call someone a fool, which is more an accusation of spiritual wickedness. Only the first condition relates to anger. The other two are actually worse, but are not necessarily based on anger, though certainly they are based on an attitude, which I believe boatbums suggests to be pride, and I would agree.
Pride is such a horrendous evil it got Lucifer evicted from Heaven. Likely it lies at the bottom of every other sin in one way or another. When it takes the form of hurtful words, the words do their harm, even if the one saying them is cheerful and at peace. Consider James:
Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. [9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. [10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
You see, the greatest commandment is love, and we can hardly be showing love by calling people rude names. They are made in God's image, every one of them. Falling short of that loving respect for others is falling short of the glory of God. It is sin, plain and simple. Even more so when hurtful words flow easily from a heart full, not of anger, but of hubris. Such a heart is cold, void of passion, too hard for love to establish a root. This is nothing to brag about.
As for meditative self-healing, it is a road I have been down, when I was young. I had a pastor who was into Edgar Cayce, and other spiritual add-ons to basic, old-fashioned Christianity. I didn't know any better. I didn't know I was opening myself to profound spiritual evil. By God's grace, I escaped that period of my life, that time of darkness.
But I also came to know how impossible it was to live up to the extremely high standards set by Christ. Not a day goes by but what I see thoughts and motives in my heart that fall short of the fullest love for God and my neighbor. I am not proud of these things, but they fill me with an eager longing for the day when, as Paul, I will be set free from the frailties of this mortal life, and will live immortal with Him:
1Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Peace,
SR
That is what is so great about being still in mind as Roy teaches and I am sure Jesus practiced...the dark thoughts are not us at all and we do not share it’s guilt, unless we play with them and entertain them. The church has so little understanding now and it is sad. Jesus told his disciples to pray...pray literately means to examine oneself. When you examine anything, you look at it deeply, watching for what is to be seen. Being still is the lost art of silent prayer and it apparently took a Jew to rediscover it in these last days.
No, it is not mental technique. You say not to intellectualize faith, but always you reduce it to an intellectual exercise, one which I have been through and encountered great evil along the way. Shutting down the conscious mind drops God-given defenses to the intrusion of principalities and powers at the most vulnerable level of our hearts. It is a grave mistake to set aside the mind God gave us. It is how God made us, with both reason and spirit, working together, not separately. It is the reason God gave the churches to have a teaching ministry. What was the final command of Jesus in Matthew’s gospel? To make disciples through teaching observance of all that Christ taught. It may seem harder to tackle some of those thornier teaching issues, easier just to convince oneself at an emotional level that nirvana is within reach. But the opposite is true. Self deception is always harder in the end. Trust God. Learn the teaching of the word of God. Do the things you learn. God will show you what real freedom looks like.
As far as the concept of the Trinity is concerned, it is a mystery that I am eager to understand. I believe in one God, maker of Heaven and Earth. Therefore, I have trouble accepting the expression that "Jesus is God," since for me that means "Jesus is the Father," the source of all wisdom. I do believe that as God's Anointed—as the Father's Son in whom He was well pleased--judgment over men was given to Jesus, and He is deserving of worship.
I believe the Bible is absolutely the inspired word of God and should be taken literally—leaving reasonable room for honest disagreements that are based on translation differences and passages accepted as unclear. I think part of the reason Christians benefit from interdenominational contact is that we help each other to better know this Book of Life so essential for spreading the Good News. I welcome such help.
As to the idea that Masters teaches he and his followers are "without sin", he explains:
He ends with this statement:
So, Fabian, perhaps you are relying too much on Roy Masters' old teachings and are not aware that he has changed his views on some subjects. Though I will not be a follower of his, there were only a few things he said in this letter with which I have issues, and, perhaps, he is not being as forthright about ALL that he teaches and is only saying what he knows will calm down the Christians who know what they believe AS Christians and who considered him as a cult leader. I'm glad I read this letter, hopefully, you will read it, too. Good night.
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Few do; but someone needs to point out when a reply is not formatted correctly.
I'm sure we all have had a post that looked good in the preview pane; only to have it be corrupted when finally posted.
It might be 'clear' to you; but you have failed, so far, to present YOUR case clearly to the rest of us; who rely on what the actual text of the bible SAYS; without needing someone to 'explain' it to us.
Ah....
I'm begining to realize why you DISMISS the 'words' of the bible that WE produce as evidence.
CAn we just disagree with the LAST part of your statement?
And yet you presume to judge us?
Roy; your method is slipping.
WHOA!
-—— I used to hear Roy Masters late at night while driving. My recollection is that he was interesting to listen to but always seemed a little weird in the way he spoke down to people. He would have been a good cult leader, if he’s not already. ——
Couldn’t have said it better. Something is deeply “off.”
What’s good is what he derives correctly from Christianity. What’s wrong is just about everything else.
That’s your problem...all caught up in the words of the bible and getting a sense of salvation. You cannot learn salvation and I also have not judged anyone. You guys are the ones that hijacked my thread to help people by way of the Be Still, which is very much so. You couldn’t just leave my thread alone and allow me the space and others the space to decide for themselves. Instead, you and others came on here and lied and slandered Roy. That is a fact of what was done. Lied. Conservatives you are supposed to be? The quote about Roy knowing the tricks of evil minds was cut short on purpose, and anyone who knows this kind man knows exactly that he would never use evil against people. How evil it is to try and slander in such a way. And that is Christian? My foot it is. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
Liar!
Yeah; that does seem to be quite a problem:
NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "
NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.
NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'
NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."
NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "
NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'
NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."
NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "
NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.
NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'
NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'
NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '
NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.
NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "
NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."
NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."
NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."
NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --
NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."
NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.
NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."
NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"
NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.