HORSES AND BAYONETS

Fox News ^

[redinIllinois]

I hear a lot of people sticking up for bayonets, how about someone calling attention to the fact that Obama made a glaring error by mocking horses, when they were an important part of the war he says is the one we need to focus on, Afghanistan? http://video.foxnews.com/v/1912138721001/horse-soldier-memorial-unveiled-at-ground-zero/ This is the link for Fox, but there was also lots of other coverage about the Horse Memorial at Ground Zero.

[a fool in paradise]

Obama lied. He also killed weapons development and seeks to reduce our nuclear arsenal to ZERO. It isn’t about a “leaner meaner” military. It is about crippling out nation’s military.

[Perseverando]

USMC BAYONET

PURPOSE
From 500 yards, every Marine is accurate with a rifle. Attach the OKC-3S Bayonet, and the weapon becomes just as effective in close combat situations. Also a Marine's multi-purpose fighting knife, the OKC-3S is the weapon of choice when shots can't be fired. Every Marine receives bayonet training in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) and on the Bayonet Assault Course in Recruit Training.

FEATURES
Grooved, non-slip handle with steel guard and butt
Polyester elastomer sheath offers weight and noise reduction
Serrations at base of blade for utility knife purposes
Sharp tip capable of puncturing a ballistic vest
Ergonomic grip design helps prevent training-related, repetitive-strain injuries
Grip embossed with an Eagle, Globe and Anchor

SPECIFICATIONS
Overall length: 13.25 inches
Blade length: 8 inches
Blade Material: Carbon steel
Weight: 1.25 pounds with sheath
8" partially serrated blade
Non-reflective phosphate finish
Fielded in 2003

BAYONET TRAINING (See Sidebar)

Charge with lethal precision
A bayonet is a removable fighting knife that attaches to the muzzle of a rifle barrel. In close combat situations where a rifle cannot be fired, the bayonet is an indispensible, lethal weapon. Learning how to effectively use a bayonet is an important part of Marine Corps training.

On the bayonet assault course, recruits learn to attach and detach the bayonet from the rifle quickly and to engage targets aggressively. They become masters of offensive and defensive fighting techniques.

[zbogwan2]

Poor pathetic Pres. Obama shows he doesn’t have the faintest idea what the Military uses in the pursuit of war. Maybe if he attended his security daily briefs he’d known better????

[Raycpa]

It was not the comment itself as much as it was the condescension. Think about this. You have a neighbor who is angry with you and your family. You think its a good idea to send over a mediator to talk sense to the neighbor. Who do you pick? Obama with his condescension or Romney who is respectful?

[DJ MacWoW]

Hey! President Snarky Pants!

Meet The Horse Soldiers Of Afghanistan!

Click The Horse Soldiers Of Afghanistan To Donate

Support FR, The Truth Serum

[BobNative]

I suggest that President Zero watch “War Horse.”

[matchgirl]

HORSES AND BAYONETS!!!!

[RJS1950]

Bayonets have been effectively used in Afghanistan, there were bayonet charges at LZ X-ray in the Ia Drang as well as at Khe Sahn and countless other places.

The kenyan is a clueless POS.

[jboot]

Bayonets are HARDLY obsolete. I know WWII US Army bayonet drill (old-fashioned thrust and parry) fairly well. At hand-to-hand range a rifle with a fixed bayonet is a much more decisive weapon than either a pistol or a hand-held knife. Good on the Marines for keeping the focus on them.

[Joe 6-pack]

"What makes the grass grow?!?!"

[tanknetter]

There’s a much bigger and more important issue here that’s being completely overlooked.

The horses and bayonets jab was made in response to Romney lamenting the decline if the surface Navy. The USN is trying, for better or for worse, to make up the shortfall in hulls with the Littoral Combat Ship. Which at a cost of $700 million is cheaper and more affordible in numbers than Burke class destroyers.

The Navy wants to buy 55 LCSes, split between the Freedom and Independence classes. Two ships of each class have been built this far.

Obamas jab should really he read, therefore as a threat against the LCS program, right? Afterall, that’s the route the USN has chosen to go in bulking up.

Here’s the thing, the Freedom class, which will be at least 25 more ships at a program cost of around $19 billion, are being built in WISCONSIN. You know, the battleground/swing state? The one that could counteract a Romney loss in Ohio?

Something tells me that the threat of killing a $19 billion program benefiting the state would really matter to Wisconsin voters as they go to the polls ... Dontcha think?

[SERKIT]

I learned a LOT from Mr. Soetoro last night. We have something called a NAVY. Some of their boats are SO big, you can even land something called an AIRPLANE on it. It is called an AIRCRAFT CARRIER. We also have boats that go under the water, called SUBMARINES.....Who knew? That manboy CoC really knows a LOT about military stuff. He is SO cool! Wow!

[redinIllinois]

“Who do you pick? Obama with his condescension or Romney who is respectful?”

Obama obviously doesn’t even have enough respect for the American military or people, to attend the daily briefs.

No respect at all for America or her allies.

[DJ MacWoW]

Yes. Obama knows very little but believes he is the smartest person in the room.

[KoRn]

If I had to guess, I would think we’d have MORE Bayonets in our military right now than in 1914(or whenever it was). Each and every M16/M4 has a bayonet lug on it, and I’m SURE each and every serviceman is issued one with their rifle/carbine.

[redinIllinois]

Thanks so much for posting that great picture (and comment)

I was looking for a picture of the memorial, but yours makes the point so much better :)

[Buffalo Head]

Even though the Marine’s M4’s have a bayonet lug on the base of the front sight, a bayonet can not be attached to the carbines. The M4’s and M16’s utilize the same front sight (to save money?). The bayonets can only be attached to the longer barreled M16 rifles.

[DJ MacWoW]

You’re welcome. I love poking President Clueless. :-)

[bigbob]

My guess is this line came from his debate prep helper, well-known war expert John Kerry. ( who served in Viet Nam, did you know?)

[Deb]

Distraught and angry, Mr. Ed, Trigger and Silver, swing to Romney after Obama throws them under the chuck wagon. Even The Black Stallion tells Obama to “STFU!”.

[Deb]

“The Horse Soldiers”, a great book. Get it on Amazon!

[DJ MacWoW]

Thanks!

[morphing libertarian]

LOL. I know Kerry went to Cambodia for Christmas, but wasn’t sure he was in VN. (Sarc).

Obama was right about horses, we have fewer than in 1916. Or maybe 1898. The picture above from Afghan however is classic and a good retort.

It was his sarcasm and condescension that made the answer so bad. Romney won the battle of tone and posture all through the debate, but I wish he could have responded about the ship issue with specific numbers and compared to what he thinks the navy needs.

[trebb]

It was not the comment itself as much as it was the condescension. Think about this. You have a neighbor who is angry with you and your family. You think its a good idea to send over a mediator to talk sense to the neighbor. Who do you pick? Obama with his condescension or Romney who is respectful?

From what I've seen, the childish retort has worked - nobody seems to remember that Mitt started by saying the Navy is telling leadership that it is 30+ ships short of being able to meet present commitments and if sequestration hits, it will be 130 ships short...puts a whole new spin on the conversation.

[married21]

Wow. Now this is why I appreciate Free Republic. Where else are you going to see practical, local information tied together with the big picture?

You rock.

[dead]

[ArrogantBustard]

A young friend of mine recently completed US Army Basic Training ...

Among other things, he was instructed in the proper use of the bayonet.

0bama is FOS.

[Buckeye McFrog]

He probably thinks Navy is a football team.

[Arrowhead1952]

It is called an AIRCRAFT CARRIER. We also have boats that go under the water, called SUBMARINES.....Who knew?

My next door neighbor was the commander of a fast attack nuke sub and served on other subs. He calls surface ships "targets".

[The Sons of Liberty]

HORSES AND BAYONETS

0bama quoted horses and bayonets because if his commie regime gets their way, THAT'S what the military will have to operate with.

[redinIllinois]

Great pic of Obama - it almost looks like he’s got his eye out.... :)

[Lady Jag]

[Jane Long]

Here’s the thing, the Freedom class, which will be at least 25 more ships at a program cost of around $19 billion, are being built in WISCONSIN. You know, the battleground/swing state?

Paging Paul Ryan!

[BenLurkin]

It is not hyperbole to say that Hussein is the least suited person for the role of Commander in Chief in the history of the United States.

[castlegreyskull]

“I learned a LOT from Mr. Soetoro last night. We have something called a NAVY. Some of their boats are SO big, you can even land something called an AIRPLANE on it. It is called an AIRCRAFT CARRIER. We also have boats that go under the water, called SUBMARINES.....Who knew? That manboy CoC really knows a LOT about military stuff. He is SO cool! Wow!”

I actually thought that was the more illogical part of obamas rude statement. He is telling Romney we have now ships called Aircraft Carriers and nuclear submarines. Well those are the very ships Romney would be asking for among other ships. So basically he said we don’t need more ships because we have these submarines and aircrafts. Apparently obama thinks those ships last forever, or that we need less because they are technologically supperior to the ships from 1917.

[Cvengr]

So the ships are limited to a 26.5 ft draft by the locks in the St Lawrence Seaway....

[Cvengr]

Can you imagine how the Secretary of the Navy and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have to tone down their briefs to the President, when they have to explain to him about ships that go underwater and ships that planes land upon?

Here I was thinking this DADT crap was simply a political sign of the times,....no wonder this guy allowed most of our cruise missiles to be expended hunting down Khadaffy’s kids in Libya,..I suspect all at Heir Obama’s brilliant gamesmanship /s.

Note to self,...buy more bayonets and KaBars. After this guy gets finished with the military, there won’t be any supporting arms left.

[castlegreyskull]

“Can you imagine how the Secretary of the Navy and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have to tone down their briefs to the President, when they have to explain to him about ships that go underwater and ships that planes land upon?”

It would take a even a newly commissioned ensign way to long to explain to obama that an Aircraft carrier requires an entire “battle group” which includes dozens of ships and aircraft. It would take even longer to explain to him for every base overseas he plans to close the more aircraft carrier battlegroups become vital on an exponetial scale. It was probably smart that Romney just blinked at him and let obama sound like a snarky 3rd grader.

[BwanaNdege]

In early 1969 we were assaulting an NVA held hill SW of DaNang. I had just rolled into a nice, safe, deep slit trench they had dug and we had driven them out of.

I was thinking, “Oh, good, nice cover!” when word is passed down the trench, “Fix Bayonets!”

We all started looking around, “Where’s John Wayne?” “Where are the movie cameras?” “No one does this in real life!”

Next thing we know, the XO (the CO had just been shot) says “Follow me, men! Over the top!”

Sure enough, we did a bayonet charge across that field. (Being one of the mortar forward observer team, I was in the 2nd wave)

When the NVA see the Marines doing a bayonet charge, they think John Wayne must be around somewhere and they boogie out. The only guy we had wounded was accidentally hit in the back by someone shooting from the hip, John Wayne style. (His name does seem to crop up a lot, doesn’t it?)

In close combat, if you don’t have a bayonet, you’ll just end up using your e-tool.

[RJS1950]

Heh, the first time I was taught how to use the e-tool as a weapon I decided that it had a lot of advantage over the bayonet. Better reach, more mass and if you sharpened the edges it would be great at disemboweling or cleaving a skull; something akin to a battleaxe.

Semper Fi

[Dajjal]

obumpa

[archy]

Even though the Marine’s M4’s have a bayonet lug on the base of the front sight, a bayonet can not be attached to the carbines. The M4’s and M16’s utilize the same front sight (to save money?). The bayonets can only be attached to the longer barreled M16 rifles.

SSgt Edward Ortiz, staff non-commissioned officer-in-charge, Combat Shooting Team, Weapons Training Battalion, Marine Corps Base Quantico, bayonets a target simultaneously with an Australian soldier May 15, 2011, during the 2011 Australian Army Skill at Arms Meeting (AASAM). The week-long meeting pit military representatives from partner nations in competition in a series of grueling combat marksmanship events.>

Australian Army MajGen David Morrison (right), commanding general, Forces Command, inspects an M4 carbine and bayonet used by Sgt Jonathan Shue at Puckapunyal Military Range, Puckapunyal Army Base, Victoria, Australia, May 15, 2011, during the 2011 AASAM. "

[Buffalo Head]

So the Aussies have a bayonet that fits an M4 but we don't?

[archy]

So the Aussies have a bayonet that fits an M4 but we don't?

Nope. The Aussies use their F88 AusSteyers, which use the Eickhorn KCB-70 bayonet. The M4s are USMC M4 rifles with ACOG sights and the old issue M9 bayonet, now being replaced by the USMC by the OKC-3S bayonet, seen here on M16A2 rifles.

[Buffalo Head]

One of us seems confused. I am certain that bayonets that fit M16’s, M16A1’s and M16A2’s do not fit M4’s. You seem to be writing that the new OKC-38 bayonet fits both M16’s and M4’s. The distance between the flash supressor and bayonet lug is quite different between M16’s and M4’s.

[archy]

One of us seems confused.

That's certainly possible. But I'm not the one.

I am certain that bayonets that fit M16’s, M16A1’s and M16A2’s do not fit M4’s.

Well, THERE's your problem!

You seem to be writing that the new OKC-38 bayonet fits both M16’s and M4’s. The distance between the flash supressor and bayonet lug is quite different between M16’s and M4’s.

It's not all that different. But the important part is that the bayonet's ring is free to slide over the entire length of the flash suppressor. And any of the M16 series of bayonets, from the Vietnam-era M7 issued with the M16A1 rifle to the Lan-Cay M9 and new OKC-38s- plus a couple of other designs- all latch onto the basic bayonet lug, whether on an M16, N16A1, M16A2 or M4. They won't fit on the old XM177E2 CAR15 because the muzzle device was larger than the 22mm diameter of the M18 flashhider, and because the bayonet lugs on most of those rifles were ground off. That was also the case with some M16 rifles fitted with the XM148 40mm grenade launcher, forerunner to today's M203...because during Tet '68, some overenthusiastic ARVN Marines fitted bayonets to their M16s and then tried to fire HE rounds from their bloopers, with unfortunate results. That was one of the considerations when the military JSSAP program was developing the M16A2 rifle, at that time, mostly to meet USMC requirements- which included the use of the bayonet. But I digress.

The point is, there's enough point and blade tip extending forward of the flash suppressor to get the job done. True enough, it isn't usually done with a bayonet these days, but the sharpie pointy thingie remains useful for a couple of reasons: riot control [don't hear much about that one nowadays, tho] moving prisoners around, and more to the point, letting those used to seeing armed personnel standing guard with usually-empty weapons that when the bayonets are on, the ship's Marine detachment is loaded for bear and means business. That can be the case for airfield guards, embassy personnel and those on the Nuclear Position Duty Roster as well.

But just to be sure, I checked. Click Yep, the old M7 locks up just fine on my old circa 1970 M18A1. Click! Yep, it locks up on my M4 [more precisely, a Canadian Diemaco C8A3] as well.

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/ars_w_m9s.jpg">

[zbogwan2]

I picked and voted for Romney and I’m totally disappointed and dismayed by Obama’s win.

[zbogwan2]

I didn’t see War Horse yet...hasn’t come to cable yet...don’t usually go to movies.