Posted on 12/12/2012 8:58:28 AM PST by BenLurkin
The small plane carrying Mexican-American music superstar Jenni Rivera plunged in a nose-dive from more than 28,000 feet and hit the ground at more than 600 mph, Mexico's top transportation official said.
Gerardo Ruiz Esparza, Mexico's secretary of communications and transportation, offered a Mexican radio station the first detailed accounts of the moments leading up to the crash that killed Rivera and six other people aboard the Learjet on Sunday.
The plane practically nose-dived," Ruiz told Radio Formulate. "The impact must have been terrible."
Ruiz said the 43-year-old aircraft hit the ground 1.2 miles from where it began falling and that it plummeted at a nearly 45-degree angle. The plane left Monterrey around 3:30 a.m. Sunday after a concert performance. According to authorities, controllers lost contact with the U.S.-registered plane about 10 minutes after takeoff.
(Excerpt) Read more at abclocal.go.com ...
Per post 34 the Learjet will glide 26NM for every 10000 feet of altitude. The typical Cessna 172 has a glide ratio of 1.5 NM for every 1000 ft of altitude, only 15 miles for 10000 feet. For the Cessna the best glide speed would be 67-68.
Fair point and I agree.
No fair. Payne was sleeping.
Is it cheaper to charter a private plane than to fly commercial? I can never figure out why anyone takes these risks, given that the pilot has to fly random routes and the mechanics on the ground are of unknown/dubious quality.
O2 deprivation/hypoxia.
RE: post 37/38
Thanks.
You’re not the only one!! Working on a family event today & trying to plan activities for the ‘younger’ kids (under 10). One of my cousins has 3 kids and I was thinking they were maybe 6, 7 .... turns out they’re more like young teenagers. Yikes! Where did the time go? I’ve lost some years somewhere.
Yeah, the long sleep.
As I say, easy to say now, right?
Stick me on that plane & I’d probably be begging for 20 in San Quentin!
Thank you for looking that up!
The loose rule of thumb is if you can see it off your wing tip at altitude you can make it in for a landing. The shorter the wings the shorter the glide.
The age and health of the pilot is certainly a plausible cause, but truthfully we will never know.
The LearJet 25 is a rocket if it climbs 6000+ ft/min! A Cessna 172 will only climb at about 700-750 ft/min.
I have spent many hours abord Lear 20 and 30 series aircraft. There is nothing wrong with them and they do glide. They are NOT idiot proof, and do need to be flown by a professional, trained crew.
I know of no mechanical or structural defects that would cause this. The situation had to involve crew incapacitation, probably passengers as well. The pressurization system on the aircraft is of 1960s vintage, but it is fine if properly maintained.
The biggest drawback with the early Lear series is that because of a relatively low street value, they generally wind-up in the hands of shoestring operators that try to cut every corner imaginable. That is a very bad combination.
Supposedly there was a 20 year old co-pilot. This is a 2 pilot airplane. My husband used to fly one and it was a little rocket. It was also skittish because of it’s size.
This was an old plane and possibly not properly maintained -owned by a questionable operator who had previous issues with a plane being siezed for drug running. We are in the aviation business and it sounds like a mechnical problem to me - if the auto pilot was on and there was no mechanical issues it would have flown until it ran out of gas the way Payne Stewart’s plane did.
If you had to choose between taking a flight in a Lear Jet, or a Cessna, which would you pick if time wasn’t an issue?
Yikes. Sorry I asked.
I would fly in a Lear jet over the Cessna. But if time was not a factor I would take the Cessna at $100/hr it is much cheaper.
(1) The Lear series is certificated with a minimum crew of two pilots....
... so the older Captain's health/consciousness would not normally bring this result if he was incapacitated due to his own health issues.
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(2) Smooth handling of the cabin pressurization system is a little tricky...
... there are simplistic automatic profile settings for the anticipated cruise altitude....
.... And manual override controls on the co-pilot's side of the cockpit
Older airframes with many cycles are typically "leaky" --
...and the crew /especially the co-pilot would have to be alert & sharp to catch a subtle "climb" in cabin altitude due to a leaky door seal, f'rinstance.
The Payne Stewart tragedy was a subtle pressurization problem that occurred in its final form at altitudes sufficient to render the crew incapacitated in about 1 minute.
The Jenni Rivera crew should have had sufficient time to don crew oxygen masks and correct the pressurization problems-- including descent and return to the origin airport.
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(3) The Lear series had some midlife issues that revolved around the NiCad battery system overheating and forecfully bursting--
This disintegration was found to cause physical damage to the flight controls AND/OR damaging the fuel lines that passed through the same tight spaces in the back of the rear service compartment.
Several serious crashes were eventually attributed to this system breakdown --
The FAA issued AD's to redesign /reroute the critical fuel lines.... AND
.... Imposed procedural restrictions for use of battery power on the ground...
...With additional periodic maintenance processes for testing /replacement of the battery.
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So the questions are begged...
Were all of the AD's complied and complete??
Certainly -- if the aircraft was operated in the USA....
... If it was "owned" in the USA and only operated in Mexico... MAYBE NOT...
In the wee hours of the morning-- did the crew find it necessary to accomplish battery starts (without an external power cart)??
Did the crew use the checklist correctly and routinely--??
....Or was the young co-pilot just following a salty ol' Capn's orders to start 'em up & blast-off...??
In the wee hours of the morning... was crew duty day /fatigue a factor--did they miss something important on the taxi/takeoff checklists??
The "star" arrives -- and everyone expects the crew to start/taxi & takeoff ASAP...
If the pressurization settings were not set correctly before takeoff...OR there was a slow air leak.....
Did the crew "catch" the cabin altitude problem before they lost useful conscieousness??
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Last but not least possibility--
(4) If the crew exceeded any airframe speed/mach limitations during the climb-- structural compromise /failure of the flight control/trim surfaces -- that would also suffice to send the aircraft plummeting...
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One last thought about investigating the crash...
IIRC --not all (older) "charter" planes are required to fly with the typical "black boxes" like airliners.
(cockpit voice recorders or flight data recorders--etc)
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OK -- just food for thought.... a few possibilities...
This is a sad loss--- prayers for the families of those who perished in this accident.
No.
No G’s involved in a dive.
You are along for the ride, 1-G.
It is Hollywood fiction that gives the impression of G’s during a dive.
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