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Please Pray For My Mom... and Advice-- Is this the Obama Death Panel in action? (Sad update #118)
Me

Posted on 01/06/2013 12:00:02 AM PST by MacMattico

Please say a Prayer for my mother.

I don't think I've ever asked some one to pray for some one else before, but she's in a tough spot. If it is her time to go it will hurt terribly, but as Catholics and the fact that she is the most caring, loving person I have ever met, I know we will meet again in a better place.

I'm also extremely upset with the hospital, and I don't want this to happen to others.

On the day after Christmas, my mother was taken to the hospital and diagnosed with Pneumonia. They also told us her kidneys were not functioning very well, but not end stage or where she needed dialysis or anything like that. Her lungs had a lot of fluid in them. Fast forward four days and they said the fluid was gone as well as any sign of infection. But my mother was still mostly unresponsive and wanted to sleep all of the time. My sisters and I have been able to wake her on occasion and she will talk with us for a few minutes before going back to sleep. When she had the fluid in the lungs, they did not provide hydration as they said she couldn't handle it, antibiotics were intravenously given. So, obviously, at least to me, when they said the fluid was gone and infection cleared up, I expected to see the IV fluids begin, but they didn't. I demanded hydration be started and every excuse was given to me: she didn't need it, she woke up and drank enough,( not true, my sister and/or I were there hour after hour and she wasn't drinking). I asked the doctor if he were trying to kill her -- it was going on 3-4 days with no adequate fluids. I told him my mother was Catholic and would not want to die from dehydration and starvation-- that was her biggest fear. He then said she couldn't handle it. I said I was going to speak with an attorney if she didn't have IV hydration when I came back in an hour. I came back in an hour and she had three bags of fluids and basically sugar water hooked up to her IV. She has been on this ever sense, no problems. And of course her kidney function improved with fluids, obviously. You can't urinate without fluid!

Now we are well over a week and my mother has barely eaten. My family inquired into ways of feeding her, a tube through the nose, feeding tube, intervenously. The doctor absolutely refuses saying her organs can't handle it! I said if your telling us she's going to die anyway due to organ failure, we want some nutrition provided. He refused and said she can go without food much longer, but I reminded him she knows what is said to her, responds, and I had called the nursing home where she had been staying (because she had trouble getting around and making meals and taking her medication on time), and they said she wasn't eating well for approximately two weeks. So we're going on three weeks with little to no food intake! The hospital refuses to feed her ! My mother is weak and has diabetes-- I can't see how trying nutrition after all this time could hurt her any more! I argued with the doctor and he refuses to follow our wishes-- a nurse even tried to change her DNR which only indicated she didn't want CPR! I caught her and threatened her with calling the police as the whole family has seen the dnr and knows what's on it. I guess the doctors argument is because she is on oxygen at night it would make it easier for her to bring up any liquid in her stomach and choke to death and that her organs can't handle it-- yet he keeps saying "maybe next week" like she's going to get better! I really think he just wants her to die as quickly as possible, and it's killing me she is not being fed. He almost went ballistic when another doctor checked her out and she knew it was January, her name and that Obama was President-- she even rolled her eyes at the name Obama! He wanted to tell us she was brain dead or close to it, I honestly think. I don't know what to do. He's says she may choke at night with the intense oxygen mask they give her and her organs can't take food right now, yet the nurses had me trying to feed her from a tray yesterday! She took only one bite and fell asleep. I don't know what to do! The doctor acts like a feeding tube will be torture, I think starvation is. There are no family members that disagree with me. Our family Priest has says she has a right to hydration and nutrition, the doctor says no nutrition "in her condition" which he constantly changes. She is on Medicare (although with the best supplemental money can buy) and I think the death panels have begun.


TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Religion
KEYWORDS: catholic; hospital; nutrition; obamacare; prayer
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Please help! We've accepted she could choke on the feeding tube fluid, if that is true, but this doctor claims we will hurt her if we provide the feeding tube-- but it's going on weeks without proper food! She has only the no CPR on her DNR and no health care proxy (was always to a afraid to fill it out) but she has always expressed her feelings to the whole family in regard to nutrition and fluids.
1 posted on 01/06/2013 12:00:16 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Move Her Now. Find Another Place. Get Another Doctor.


2 posted on 01/06/2013 12:07:22 AM PST by onona (KCCO)
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To: MacMattico

And get legal assistance ASAP!


3 posted on 01/06/2013 12:08:33 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: MacMattico; Texas Termite; .30Carbine; 68 grunt; 8mmMauser; admiralsn; Aggie Mama; al_c; ...

Logan’s Prayer Warriors...


4 posted on 01/06/2013 12:08:42 AM PST by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: MacMattico

Ice chips put into her mouth. Chocolate pudding, fed carefully...there ARE ways of sneaking food into her body. Yes, I know she’s diabetic and shouldn’t have sugar. But still. GET CREATIVE.

She DOES need OUT of there....

I’d even go so far as to physically remove her to one of your homes.


5 posted on 01/06/2013 12:13:22 AM PST by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: MacMattico

I agree with the others, move her tomorrow, or at least fire the doctor and get another.


6 posted on 01/06/2013 12:14:24 AM PST by Ditter
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To: MacMattico

Oh dear God.

I have no idea where you are, but please look into moving her now.

She needs another hospital and new doctors.

I’m praying right now.

If your family has a lawyer, call him now.

Were it me, I’d call the police right now, also.


7 posted on 01/06/2013 12:14:56 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: MacMattico

First - Here’s a prayer for your Mom - That God’s will be done and that she be held up in Jesus’ Holy Name.

Second - Your profile does not say what State you’re in. Not trying to be nosy, but trying to find local resources would be easier if we knew.


8 posted on 01/06/2013 12:19:04 AM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: MacMattico

Mac, I’d make a schedule of some sort so that one of you is with her, 24/7.


9 posted on 01/06/2013 12:19:26 AM PST by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: MacMattico

Summon your priest and tell him you’re in dire need and you’re going to sue. He might be able to talk some sense into those horrid people tending to your cherished mom.


10 posted on 01/06/2013 12:22:25 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: shibumi

Syracuse, NY


11 posted on 01/06/2013 12:27:08 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Almighty Father, please heal and help MacMattico’s Mother, help the family obtain for her the care she needs, and surround her with Your angels to protect her from harm. Please, also, Almighty Father, tend to all their needs and send assistance their way. I ask this in the Name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


12 posted on 01/06/2013 12:38:39 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: MacMattico
If she is responsive, try to get her feelings on the matter. Many times older folks reach a point where they feel they've fought the good fight and are ready to hangup the gloves. If this isn't the case, get her into another hospital with different doctors and nurses.

DNRs do get changed and many doctors and nurses just don't seem as interested in doing all they can for elderly patients.

From experience, I can tell you outcomes depend a lot on how much fight the person still has.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I went through the same with my father and grandmother. It's hard.

God bless both of you and help you and your family through this trying time.

13 posted on 01/06/2013 12:38:39 AM PST by Errant
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To: MacMattico
If you aren't happy......CHANGE HOSPITALS!!!!!

I'm not there so you have to make the decisions. Do you have medical Power Of Attorney? If you don't have POA, you could be overruled and yes, they WILL kill her. The feeding tube is uncomfortable, but it won't kill her. Even if they don't want the one down the nose, they can put one thru the stomach wall if needed. Kidney shut down usually has a fever, check that. If they ever have to use dialysis, usually the kidneys won't start back on their own.

This all happened to my mother after a stroke. They just let her die. It's about money. You get a certain number of days in hospital, they you mover her to a nursing hospital for 21 days, NOT 22! On the 21 day, you must take her home or put her in a nursing home. When her money runs out, you go on medicaid. That's the normal scenario. I can't be forceful enough about this. IF YOU DON'T DO IT, NO ONE WILL! They are looking to get the bed back.

You must take positive action to find out what is being done, ask for another doctor's opinion, make sure you follow her vitals, Make sure you know what tests are done and what the results are. Look up the results on Google. Don't be fooled by the doctor. They are looking out for themselves and the hospital. Your mother is way down the list of their concerns.

It is hard to figure out if they are being reasonable, or just pulling the plug, especially when emotions are involved. My mother was cut loose from the nursing hospital in 21 days exactly and I only had about 4 hours to get her a nursing home. They had 4 bags of antibiotics on her in the hospital, but miraculously she didn't need any more on the 21st day. They cut her loose to go to the nursing home. She was dead in 7 days. I was with her all day and half the night, every day. The nurses acted as if everything was normal. Her kidneys shut down and she died of infection. She complained of thirst every day, but they said nothing by mouth. Supposedly she got fluids in her feeding tube. I'm not a doctor, but now we will never know. Her crime, ......she was a 3 time cancer survivor. IMO, they didn't want to spend anymore money on her at 80. She was healthy and getting better when she left the hospital. In the nursing home, it was downhill every day. She couldn't go back to the hospital for the same condition. All this goes unsaid till she dies.

I'm praying for you for wisdom and discernment, and for your mother to get a healing touch from God. God Bless.

14 posted on 01/06/2013 12:41:24 AM PST by chuckles
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To: MacMattico

Prayers for your mother and your family.


15 posted on 01/06/2013 12:46:26 AM PST by BlessedBeGod
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To: Smokin' Joe; MacMattico

Amen, in Jesus’ name.


16 posted on 01/06/2013 12:50:20 AM PST by thecodont
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To: MacMattico
Are you in a city /

The country?

Is medical care nearby or far away?

17 posted on 01/06/2013 12:52:15 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Brad's Gramma

My sister is headed up there in a few hours and we’ll make a schedule, I know it probably sounds shallow but I have to get some sleep before I drop. I’m eating dinner at 3:44 am! Then I’m going back up to confront the doctor when he comes back on duty directly who is not only making the decision but telling three other doctors not to go against his instructions, I don’t know maybe they’re his interns. One of them had agreed with us and he must have over ruled her as she suddenly had a change of heart after speaking with him. A couple of the nurses totally agree with us and have been trying to feed her but she’s so sleepy it’s like she can’t stay
awake to eat. Our Priest is going to see her Monday morning, but depending on what happens today I may call him earlier. I will threaten to call the police or an attorney from the hospital and see what he says.

After that, if you hear of a woman being arrested at a hospital in Syracuse, NY for threatening a doctor, it will probably be me!


18 posted on 01/06/2013 12:53:44 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Praying for your mother and her doctor. (working both ends)


19 posted on 01/06/2013 12:55:46 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: MacMattico

God bless you..and your Mom....

You DO need sleep and food for the upcoming fight.. You’ve gotten some great advice on here, including Googling vitals and not taking their word for it. Be a united front, you and your siblings. Stand together for her.

We’ll continue to pray for all if you!


20 posted on 01/06/2013 1:02:45 AM PST by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: chuckles

I don’t have medical POA, she hasn’t needed anything close to dialysis and has no fever as of a few hours back when I was there. When I realized they weren’t going to feed her, I did my damnedest to wake her up so she could express her wishes. I will do my hardest to get her to wake up and express her views again. She’s always been so afraid to talk about her own death, though— not afraid of the afterlife but the actual process so I don’t know how this will turn out. I’m really sorry about your mother.


21 posted on 01/06/2013 1:06:22 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Berlin_Freeper

That’s a really good idea.


22 posted on 01/06/2013 1:09:32 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

It sounds like they might be giving her drugs to make her sleep. I have seen this done with elderly patients before...and worse. If she sleeps, she doesn’t try to get out of bed. She doesn’t ask for anything. She doesn’t bother anyone. No problem.
Find out immediately what kinds of medications she is receiving, and if they will not SHOW you and explain to you every single one, why she is receiving it, what the effects are, etc., get an attorney and force the issue.
My prayers are with you.


23 posted on 01/06/2013 1:10:50 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: Brad's Gramma

BTTT


24 posted on 01/06/2013 1:18:12 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: MacMattico; All
I'm going to sleep now for a little bit and then going up to the hospital. I will have my iPhone and read any comments posted. I thank all of you. If people are wondering why I'm posting here during this time it's because I feel I can always count on getting some good advice from right minded people on FR. I'm a little calmer and can approach the doctor without immediately attacking him. If he refuses to listen I can call an attorney, another hospital, another doctor, knowing there are people out there that don't even know my family that agree with us, that we are not alone.
25 posted on 01/06/2013 1:18:35 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

I hate to sound tinfoily, but is it even remotely possible that she was coerced into signing something while you weren’t there? Does she have a Living Will? Do you or anyone else in your family have Power of Attorney?


26 posted on 01/06/2013 1:19:18 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: MacMattico; little jeremiah; Sun; Ohioan from Florida; floriduh voter; metmom; trisham; ...

HELP!!!


27 posted on 01/06/2013 1:20:06 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ √ě)
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To: MestaMachine
I will do that. I'm so glad you mentioned medications for sleep. It completely slipped my mind that they said she was “anxious” and they gave her one small dose of Xanax the other day. I wonder if they've upped it and she's still receiving it! So glad I saw your post before signing off for now!
28 posted on 01/06/2013 1:25:18 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MestaMachine

Call Terry’s family,they help a few people I referred them to.
Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network
Need Help?

If you have a family member who is in or potentially facing a life-threatening situation please contact us immediately:

Phone: Call TOLL-FREE 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
http://www.terrisfight.org/need-help/


29 posted on 01/06/2013 1:32:30 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: MacMattico

Call Terry’s family,they help a few people I referred them to.
Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network
Need Help?

If you have a family member who is in or potentially facing a life-threatening situation please contact us immediately:

Phone: Call TOLL-FREE 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
http://www.terrisfight.org/need-help/


30 posted on 01/06/2013 1:34:21 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: MestaMachine
No living will, only financial POA

Sometimes I think the tinfoil hat is correct...

31 posted on 01/06/2013 1:36:31 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Get. A. Different. Doctor.

My mother had ovarian cancer which turned out to have metastasized throughout her abdomen. It was unlikely that she would survive it, but still, days and weeks are precious when a family is saying goodbye. I think my mom’s doctors deliberately hastened her death as well. (For her own good, of course. I’m sure they really thought that.)

Get a different doc right away. Insist on it. Move her to a different hospital if you have to.


32 posted on 01/06/2013 1:39:25 AM PST by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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To: MacMattico

Sorry for the double post.Also Hospital’s have a Patient Advocate.Ask for one.Someone needs power of Attorney,start that tom.In Pa it could not be a family member.You will need 3 signatures and notarized.I printed the form off the internet.They give you the information on each state laws there.I was able to get it done in 2 days.They drugged my Mom up so bad she forgot to breath.She was to be released the next day.Freepmail me if you want to talk and we will pray,((((Hugs)))Fatima


33 posted on 01/06/2013 1:42:30 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: MacMattico

Bump


34 posted on 01/06/2013 1:42:54 AM PST by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: MacMattico

BTW, this is a minor point but perhaps worth making: Don’t feed her Ensure, at least the milkshake version. That gunky cr*p clogged up my dying mother’s throat and made it hard for her to swallow properly, and then she got pneumonia from aspirating it. She kept asking for just clear broth or something more liquid, and they kept giving her the milkshake stuff that she couldn’t handle. She didn’t have lung involvement until she started aspirating the milkshake Ensure, and then the pneumonia finally finished her off. (Oh, along with a medical “mistake” by her docs.)


35 posted on 01/06/2013 1:44:33 AM PST by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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To: MacMattico

Ask why, if she can’t eat, she isn’t on total parenteral nutrition. Make sure you get a satisfactory answer.


36 posted on 01/06/2013 1:56:31 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: MacMattico

Mac, find out if she signed a ‘living will’. They offer them routinely and many older patients do not understand what they are signing even though it might be a death warrant. She can forego food and hydration and/or ‘heroic methods’ of keeping her alive and not even know she did it. You need to demand to see her medical records.


37 posted on 01/06/2013 1:57:10 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: MacMattico; Brad's Gramma

Prayers on the way for your Mom, and prayers for peace for you and your sisters as you get to the bottom of whatever is going on.

And if you are able to get her awake and aware, try to get her wishes for a Living Will, and medical Power of Attorney on paper. Maybe your priest can help with that.


38 posted on 01/06/2013 2:01:12 AM PST by Kathy in Alaska ((~ RIP Brian...heaven's gain...the Coast Guard lost a good one.~))
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To: MacMattico

My elderly aunt has been suffering serious circulation problems and is in danger of losing one if not both of her legs. A month ago my cousin discussed options with her Mom’s doctor about what could be done to save the leg. The doctor told her there was an operation that could be performed and that it had about a 50/50 chance of success. The doctor also told her flat out that if the operation could even be scheduled it needed to be done by the end of the month (ie., the end of the year) because as of January 1, 2013, parts of Ubama’s Mengelecare program were due to kick in and the operation my aunt needed would not be approved under that program. The cheaper option would be amputation, and that’s what would be approved and paid for under Mengelecare.

(Note that these kinds of “approvals” are not required for members of congress.)

Does that help your understanding of Ubama and the Democrats’ Mengelecare?


39 posted on 01/06/2013 2:09:33 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Slings and Arrows

Very good ideas here. My dear husband passed away in May. Although we had good insurance and a great understanding Doctor we had to fight for TPN. When we went home with hospice we were able to convince them (hospice) we would not sign on with them without TPN. They broke their rules for us!
When my mother passed away years ago, her Dr. said no feeding tube and she said she didn’t want one. We were able to talk her into it and insisted that she be given one. She told us if she had known how much better it would make her feel she would have wanted it a long time before. She died shortly after that.
You have to do what you think is right.


40 posted on 01/06/2013 2:34:59 AM PST by trustandobey
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To: Errant
If she is responsive, try to get her feelings on the matter. Many times older folks reach a point where they feel they've fought the good fight and are ready to hangup the gloves.

I've seen this, and agree...

41 posted on 01/06/2013 2:40:50 AM PST by Does so (Dims don't think ... they PLOT!)
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To: trustandobey

Thanks. Hope I helped.


42 posted on 01/06/2013 2:41:12 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: MacMattico; fatima

Mac, PLEASE take fatima’s suggestion and call Terri’s Network first thing this morning! They were the first thing I thought of when I saw your thread, her family formed the organization to help people in just this situation. I will be praying for your Mom, and for you.

Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network

If you have a family member who is in or potentially facing a life-threatening situation please contact us immediately:

Phone: Call TOLL-FREE 1.855.300.HOPE (4673)
http://www.terrisfight.org/need-help/


43 posted on 01/06/2013 3:10:35 AM PST by TheSarce (Reject Socialism. Champion Liberty.)
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To: Errant

I am from Syracuse NY.... Kind of went thru something similar w my father. Is she at crouse irving? U may need to move her or demand another doctor. As stressful as this is, it will save her life.


44 posted on 01/06/2013 3:15:23 AM PST by dubyajam ("Life is Hard ... It's Even Harder When you're Stupid" --- John Wayne)
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To: MacMattico

I feel for you. I have two sick inlaws. I can’t imagine


45 posted on 01/06/2013 3:16:43 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: MacMattico

Prayers up!

Father in Heaven, please watch over MacMattico’s mother, heal her body, ease her pain, and comfort her family. Please provide caring physicians that give proper medical care and do what is needed for this lady to get well. I pray and ask these things in the name of Your Holy Son, Jesus Christ, Amen.


46 posted on 01/06/2013 3:54:12 AM PST by RebelTex (Soli Deo Gloria, "To God alone the glory")
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To: MacMattico

Prayers up.


47 posted on 01/06/2013 4:25:43 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: MacMattico

Prayerful Bump.


48 posted on 01/06/2013 4:29:59 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which ¬ďliberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: MacMattico

Get her out of there. Get another physician.

In ‘07, my mom was taken to a hospital in Rochester, NY. Couldn’t lift her arms, open her eyes, walk, and when she tried to swallow and water came out her nose. She had to be carried. Since there was no nutrition, she was basically dying. The ER doctor said, “She’s just old”, and told us to take her home (to die). She was 82. We took her home because they wouldn’t admit her. This was before the “death panel” issue, but not before “affirmative action” in medical schools — if you get my drift.

That afternoon, my sister went online and diagnosed the problem as Myasthenia Gravis. She called the specific department at the hospital and said she was bringing her in and they had BETTER treat her. Mom went in and after 24 hours of IVIG, steroids, and IV hydration, she began to rally. Now she’s 88 and has more get-up-and-go than her kids do.

The days of being able to trust doctors to make correct diagnoses are gone. Every family member has to be pro-active. It’s a terrible state of affairs when a secretary can diagnose a problem that a physician can’t. We’re so used to taking as Gospel what a doctor decrees, but we can’t do that any more.

Are there Catholic hospitals in Syracuse where life is valued? I’m not Catholic, but is there an organization of Catholic attorneys who take on these kinds of cases? I know how helpless you feel — have been there. Will pray for her and you.


49 posted on 01/06/2013 4:49:33 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: MacMattico
I am a Texas attorney who litigated a case like this of starvation in a hospital (result was an over a million dollar judgment). NOTE: I have no interest in taking this or any other case outside of Texas. Here is what you need to know now.
1. You will never get through to this or most any other doctor. He spouts talking points he learned in medical school and that have been firmly reinforced in practice. He does not think nutrition matters, and it is an affront to him for you to think otherwise.
2. You must get your mother protein. Demand to see your mothers blood test results. Look for serum albumin (a measure of protein in the blood and a marker for malnutrition). It will show both the reading for your mother and a range of normal including panic values.
When the body does not get enough protein, it gets protein from its organs. The lung is the largest organ, hence the saying: death by starvation is death from pneumonia. Ensure is high in protein. Glucerna is an Ensure like product for diabetics. They even make a clear liquid product.
3. The persons you need to ally yourself with are the dietitians. Their whole purpose is nutrition. They were taught that nutrition matters. They are used to fighting the stupid games doctors play. Insist on meeting with your mother's assigned dietitian and the head dietitian. Insist on reading the dietitian's notes in your mother's chart. Don't be surprised if she has recommended a feeding.
tube.
Good luck. Your mother depends on you.
50 posted on 01/06/2013 4:55:03 AM PST by kathie4guv (Vote Kathie Glass for Texas governor for a secure border.)
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