Posted on 02/12/2013 8:34:58 AM PST by demshateGod
It's about time I buy a scary rifle. I've been looking at prices on the local classified and Gun Broker and started thinking an AK-74 would give me the most for my money. I'm interested in hearing from those of you who are much smarter and informed.
5.45x39 is a good round and it's cheap, but will this always be the case? Will I even be able to get it 10 years from now?
I'm doing all I can to avoid paying panic prices but if I don't buy one soon, the money I've set aside for it will end up being used for other things.
Except that you can get AK’s chambered in .308, which is about as ubiquitous as 5.56mm.
Here is my thoughts. I have both models of rifle. AK and AR. The AK is a great rifle. Very durable and problem free. Somewhat less accurate than the AR but accurate enough to do the job. The mags are very durable as well. As long as you buy the old metal ones. The 7.62X39 round is good and still somewhat affordable. Prices were almost as cheap as .22 ammo when I first bought my AK. I also shoot the same ammo in my SKS. Another good rifle for the collection.
The AR shoots the .223 ammo. The AR is a bit more maintenance to keep clean and keep reliable. You will want to keep it oiled and clean and have the proper tools to keep it happy. It is more accurate than the AK, but a little more fragile too. Especially the mags. The ammo is still somewhat affordable, but prices are rising due to insane demand. This is true for most calibers.
Both rifles will serve you well.. Both are still around but prices are going nuts right now. I bought my first AK for $150.00. The mags used to cost between $7.00 and $20.00. Now the guns are rising to around $800 to $1500 dollars. The mags are around $30 - 70.
My ARs cost me $650 and $700 each. The mags used to cost $12 - 30 each. The guns have gone up in price to over $1500 to $2500 each. Mags have gone up to $40 - 70 each.
My belief is, that if the SHTF and you need to use your rifle to defend yourself, your family and your country, keep in mind one thing. How available will the ammo be if a major event happens? I can bet that .223 or 5.56 will be available since our military will have plenty of it. So if a revolution or civil war were to happen you could pick up spare ammo off of those who didn’t duck when needed. The 7.62X39 will most likely not be as plentiful. It is imported and might become rare due to import bans. Unless you reload you might have to deal with that.
Also, don’t count out other models of rifle. The Rugar mini 14 is a great rifle. It shoots the .223 and is very durable. Much more so than the AR. I also believe they are more affordable in cost of both the rifle and magazines.
These are just my opinions and you are welcome to agree or ignore them.
Just get what you can handle and what you are safe with. Once you get it learn all about it. Get very familiar with it. It can be the difference between life and death.
Ruger 10-22.
Lots of hi-cap, and loaders for same - around. Cheap, readily available ammo (except maybe right this instant).
When the Bad Guys come sniffing around, lay down a wall of lead. Nobody, on hearing the SPANG! of .22s going by is going to say, “Oh, I’ll keep attacking, that’s only a .22”. They’ll hug Mother Earth and most often will decide to rob someone else.
Solids penetrate better but hollow points, IMO, do more damage, even when no lethal hits are made. At the least, the guy hit will be yelling “OW! OW! OW!”. At the most, he won’t be saying anything.
I believe the cheap 5.45x39 is gone. 5.56/.223 is being made in the billions of rounds.
I sure would stick with the AR-15 right now because of the tightness of the supply chain, but it is a personal decision.
I wish you had figured out you needed a black rifle 5 months ago. You could have had a no-name AR-15 with a good lower for $444. I know--I own one.
What are you talking about? The two rifles are within a few thousandths of an inch of being the same caliber! You are thinking of the AK-47 in 7.62, not the '74 in 5.45.
You're thinking of 7.62x39. There is no corrosive 5.45. The round's too new for that.
I like my AR’s simple and light. But that's just me. Some I see, quad rails with lights, lasers, foregrips, bipods. Then you have these scopes with holo sights mounted on an offset mount. BAD levers, extended take down pins, mag well grips, huge stocks...All on one rifle!
To each his own, I guess...
My next advice if you absolutely had to have a gun today would be to go and spend $100-125 on a Mosin-Nagant and grab a crate of the two spam cams of 7.62x54R that are still available everywhere with no premium.
On the other hand we are not living in normal times. I read the same sitrep that our friend LouAvul gave us an excerpt from above. Let me present the last segment of that report and highlight the money quote.
(Begin Quote)
It wasn’t just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants -- of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20 -- were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone. This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.
(End quote)
So from that point of view you need to get get something and do it quickly. My advice is do not get a rifle that shoots 5.45x39. You are depending on Eastern Europe for supply and Obozo can cut you off with an Executive Order. Even if you reload you have to buy virgin brass to do it and that carries a whopping premium. And the round itself has insufficient stopping power (as does 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 IMO). My rule of thumb for cartridges is to avoid any whose product when case length in millimeters is multiplied by bullet diameter is less than 350 (e.g. 7.62x39 = 297.18).
However there is a killer deal (maybe a poor choice of words?) on a serious battle rifle still available, albeit with a littlebacklog.
Get your butt over to the Civilian Marksmanship Program and do whatever you have to do to meet the eligibilty requirements. They are not hard at all to complete and you can find advice in the forums there on how to most easily do so.
Fill out the paperwork and buy a Field Grade H&R M-1 Garand for $525 and $24.95 S&H. FedEx will bring it to your front door and drop it off. While you are at the CMP also order some of the Greek surpus ammo that comes packed loose in ammo cans, 200 rounds for $98 and $11.95 S&H (BTW, 30-06 = 7.62x63 = 480.06, a surfeit of stopping power). I'd recommend 5 cans and they have a limit of 10 right now. The only other things you'll need are some clips, they're about $1 a pop and easily found on many websites.
So let's review and count up, $549.95 for the rifle and $549.75 for the ammo. So for a total of $1099.40 you get a main battle rifle and 1000 rounds of ammo. That's gotta be hands down the best gun deal in America today. And there are no restrictions on resale of CMP Garands so if things coold down later you can resell it, most likely for a profit as the street price of Garands is well above the CMP price, afact that had always baffled me but nevertheless exists.
These people, such as the OP, saw no use nor need for such guns or ammo six months ago so there is obviously no dire need.
He should wait and buy smart, and that means getting started reloading.
You act like the fag commies are going to outlaw shooting.
My kid has one,
loves it.
ammo is cheep compared to .223, buy it from the russian army direct.
It will be delivered to your home
“My brother has an AK. I love it.”
Do yourself a favor and get you an AK-47, using 7.62x39 ammo. Can’t beat it. Then later if you still want an AR-15 you can get one after things settle down a bit. The best deals on 7.62x39 ammo are out of Russia...Tulammo, Wolfe etc. The ammo is reliable...made for the AK-47. Pipelines on all ammo are empty right now, and manufacturers are going balls to the wall. It will get better, but we aren’t likely to see prices low again.
Glad to be of service. I live in the Tulsa area myself. One thing to keep in mind about these shortages is that panic is a self-fulfilling prophecy. At Bass Pro in Broken Arrow they have people lined up when they open the doors to buy all the stuff. And there’s at least one gun store (Named “Dongs” if you can believe it) that for a while was buying all available ammo from Walmart to resell at much higher prices.
I don't think of it as settling for, unless you believe they will never become available again.
I have just about let the current situation become justification for adding a 17 HMR to the collection as it seems to be the only ammo around here consistently available and reasonably affordable.
I was in Dong’s Saturday. Silver Bear 5.45x39 is over a dollar a round. I don’t like the stuff they do.
.17HMR is a fun round. My youngest daughters shoot a Savage bolt action in .17HMR and it really packs a punch over short ranges (compared with .22LR).
I hate you and wish... No, I know, I should have known better.
Shot one of those a few weeks ago. Very fun.
To keep the issue in perspective an AR totally kitted out by an actually shooter (not a gear whore) is probably lighter than an AK, and it's effective range is significantly greater.
If someone is in the market for an effective home defense rifle and they are on a tight budget an AK is probably a better value than an AR, even in this crazy market. It is a robust platform and as such should be on any ones list but it's not really in the same class as an AR.
That’s kind of what I was thinking. I know .223 will always be around.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.