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To: WhiskeyX

There’s no evidence that there was a mid-2nd M “supereruption”; the eruption that put a few inches to a few feet of crud over Akrotiri is attested from one surviving ancient source, and dates to about 200 BC. There’s literally nothing to any of the late-19th c claim (that is when it originated) that is supported by geology. There’s a lot of CLAIMS that there is support, but none of them make sense. There’s a tiny (mm’s thick) layer of ash found in one end of Crete; there’s zero evidence of any tsunami; the caldera is prehistoric by 10s of 1000s of years; and it would be reasonable to expect the tsunami to have headed for the Greek mainland, given the way the crater now opens to the sea (again, that event was prehistoric).

There’s no evidence that the Sea People existed as they’re described today, and zero evidence of any homeland, except for assignments of modern placenames that sort of match the list in one Egyptian account. Given that there was no supereruption, that the conventional pseudochronology places the Sea People 300 to 400 years *after* the supereruption (which , though fictional, is dated from 1628 BC up to and through 1500 BC; Sea People dated some time after 1200 BC), even the math doesn’t work.

The (apparently) most recent Linear B texts that survive have Latin loanwords, which can’t be explained except by the obvious errors in dating in the conventional pseudochronology — Linear B remained in use, parallel with classical Greek writing, until sometime after the Romans arrived in Greece.


12 posted on 02/15/2013 3:21:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

“There’s no evidence that there was a mid-2nd M “supereruption”; the eruption that put a few inches to a few feet of crud over Akrotiri is attested from one surviving ancient source, and dates to about 200 BC.”

I did not say anything about there being s “supervolcano,” so you are inventing a strawman argument and arguing with yourself. I wrote about there being a catastrophic eruption, and such a catastrophic eruption can be one of the largest volcanic eruptions to be experienced in the human history of civilization without being a supervolcano as you have attempted to falsely change my comments.

The catastrophic eruption occurred at about 1613 B.C.E. +/- 13 years, according to a variety of lines of evidence ranging from radiocarbon dating to archealogical comparisons. Akrotiri was buried in a serise of eruption stages in this event. The initial stage put a light layer of ash on the town, enough to prompt the evacuation of the community. It appears the inhabitants were returning from somewhere nearby to recover valued property when the community was buried under ash and pumice tens of feet thick. Soon after the first stage and before the rainfall could disturb the first ashfall. Your denials to the contrary and claimed date of 200 B.C. are simply ludicrous. The eruption produced a new cone that then collapsed in upon itself, producing the steam explosion as the new flows reached the bay. Recent submarine and geological research has doubled the estimate of the eruption to 60 square kilometers of material from this eruptionin about 1600-1627 B.C.E

“There’s literally nothing to any of the late-19th c claim (that is when it originated) that is supported by geology.”

Since “the late-19th c claim” is not what was being discussed and you have not identified what claim you are talking about, your denial of it is irrelevant to the topic. Sufficee it to observe, however, the geological evidence of ashfall on nearby and distant land and sea confirms the major eruption of Thera in about 1620-127 B.C.E.

“There’s a lot of CLAIMS that there is support, but none of them make sense. There’s a tiny (mm’s thick) layer of ash found in one end of Crete; there’s zero evidence of any tsunami; the caldera is prehistoric by 10s of 1000s of years; and it would be reasonable to expect the tsunami to have headed for the Greek mainland, given the way the crater now opens to the sea (again, that event was prehistoric).”

It is each of your claims which are wrong, so there is evidence of the major eruption of Thera. The thin layer of volcanic ash on the nearest end of Crete comes from a different volcano’s eruption at another time. There may be some small evidence of some ash making it to Crete from the first stage of Thera’s eruption about 120-1627 B.C.E., it would not have been significant enough to cause any serious damage in Crete. The great bulk of the ashfall was blown by the winds to the east and northeast of Thera. Significant ashfall occurred in Anatolia in particular.

There is abundant evidence of tsunami from Thera’s eruption striking the coastline of Crete. As many BBC and other videos illustrate, pumice carried from Thera’s eruption to Crete by the tsunami can still be found today along the coastline of Crete. Scientific studies currently describe multiple tsunami resulting from the earthquakes and the collapse of the newly made caldera, and the steam explosion that produced tsunami with wave heights to greater than 60 feet high. These events occurred in about 1620-1627, and not in the prehistoric period. The sediment layering and about 60 square kilometers of eruption material for these events lie atop the 18th Century B.C.E. artifacts and geology. Consequently, your comments are purely nonsensical because they are so obviously and impossibly contrary to the evidence.

“There’s no evidence that the Sea People existed as they’re described today, and zero evidence of any homeland, except for assignments of modern placenames that sort of match the list in one Egyptian account.”

The Sea Peoples we know without doubt did exist, and we know this by many lines of evidence. One of those important lines of evidence is the Egyptian’s written record in which the Egyptians literally named the raiders and invaders the Sea Peoples. Furthermore, the existence of the Sea Peoples is attested by the genomes they left behind in the Mediterraneean populations.

“Given that there was no supereruption, that the conventional pseudochronology places the Sea People 300 to 400 years *after* the supereruption (which , though fictional, is dated from 1628 BC up to and through 1500 BC; Sea People dated some time after 1200 BC), even the math doesn’t work.”

As noted before, the supervolcano claim is your own strawman invention. The dating of the Sea People would be incorrect with respect to the Minoan collapse only when the dating precedes the 1620-1627 B.C.E. eruption of Thera. The Sea Peoples raids and invasions centuries after the eruption of Thera makes perfect sense, because it is typical for it to take one or more centuries to build the alliances and confederacies necessary to successfully challenge a group of first-rate empires substantially weakened by the direct and indirect consequences of one or more natural catastrophes.

“The (apparently) most recent Linear B texts that survive have Latin loanwords, which can’t be explained except by the obvious errors in dating in the conventional pseudochronology — Linear B remained in use, parallel with classical Greek writing, until sometime after the Romans arrived in Greece.”

So what? Those were written scripts used exclusively by a very small number of royal palace scribes to conduct royal administration of the empire with a very small number of records on clay tablets. The Sea Peoples are known to have been a wide assortment of different people with widely different languages and cultures. The principal commonality was the opportunity to exploit the wealth and resources of the weakened empires upon whom they preyed. Since the specialized royal scripts did not memorialize the words of the spoken languages common to these people, The word loans reflect more upon the imperial business of the empires under attack than the affairs of the raiders and invaders whenever they made no use of these royal adminstrative scripts.


13 posted on 02/16/2013 11:14:56 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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