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Boy, 7, dies four days after being savaged by pit bulls
Daily Mail ^ | 4/8

Posted on 04/11/2013 1:06:28 PM PDT by Arthurio

A seven-year-old boy has died four days after being savaged by two pit bull mix dogs belonging to his neighbour.

Tyler Jett was dragged from his bike as he cycled home from school.

He was just yards from his home in Calaway, Florida, when the two dogs, an Alapha blood bulldog and brindle bulldog, escaped and pounced on him.

Family members hearing his screams ran from their home and managed to pull the dogs off him.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Local News; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: 4leggedcuisinart; breedofpeace; bulldog; doggieping; dogofpeace; dogs; expected; expecteddoggieping; florida; landshark; meth; methlab; methlabradors; notpitbull; pitbull; pitbulls; thedogbreedofpeace
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Mother kisses her boy goodbye:


1 posted on 04/11/2013 1:06:28 PM PDT by Arthurio
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To: Arthurio

The neighbor should be locked in a room with his dogs. After a few weeks unlock the door and see if he lived.


2 posted on 04/11/2013 1:10:36 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Arthurio

Each man has to determine when justice has been served or not and when mercy or justice is required.


3 posted on 04/11/2013 1:19:10 PM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
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To: John O

There are those that think dogs are more value than humans. There would be scorched earth at my neighbor’s house.


4 posted on 04/11/2013 1:28:07 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Arthurio
Family members hearing his screams ran from their home and managed to pull the dogs off him.

Forget pulling, I would have cut their throats. Always have a sharp pocket knife.

5 posted on 04/11/2013 1:31:07 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
My wife and I went to visit her sister recently. They took in a dog 3 years ago that was given up by its former owners since it bit a mom and snarled and lunged at their newborn.

My sister in law took it in and then got pregnant. SIL quote a while back when I expressed my concern was "We take all precautions...we don't even trust the dog with our new baby".

When we went to visit with our 2.5 year old boy and 10 month old, my little boy kept saying "Look dad, there is bad dog" (I had coached him on staying away).

My SIL was pretty pissed that I had taught my son to fear that dog and call him "Bad dog".

I had told her that the gun I brought to CA was not for protection, but to kill her dog if it so much as growled at my children. I had told her to board it or let someone take care of it while we were out there for a week, but she kept coming up with excuses on why no one would take it in for a few days.

Anyways, Lesson learned. We will stay at hotel from now on when visiting her relatives. I was dead serious that I would kill that dog without blinking an eye if it did ANYTHING hostile towards my children.

My wife and I had a stressful visit simply keeping vigil on where that dog was at all times.

6 posted on 04/11/2013 1:35:58 PM PDT by DCBryan1
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To: Arthurio

That photo made me cry.... to have say good bye to such a young child is devastating

Unfortunately, too many people are irresponsibile with pets. That is problem #1 when stuff like this happens


7 posted on 04/11/2013 1:41:33 PM PDT by SeminoleCounty (GOP - Greenlighting Obama's Programs)
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To: DCBryan1
Thats the thing about certain breeds. While individual dogs can be the best animal you could ever meet, the raw power they possess coupled with a potential for extreme agression means you ust can't trust them.

A friend of my dad's owned a pitbull. He had it for years, then one day the thing attacked him without provocation and clamped its jaws over his face. They had to kill it to get it off him.

8 posted on 04/11/2013 1:44:11 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Pontiac
Always have a sharp pocket knife.

Definitely worth doing. I've been carrying one knife or another since the ripe old age of seven. I'd hate to try to count the number of times people have asked to borrow this or that pocket knife. May you always have a hung handy, and may you never need it—and don't forget your pocket knife.

9 posted on 04/11/2013 1:44:56 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: Arthurio

KILL’EM ALL G-DAMNIT. ENOUGH ALREADY. And I DON’T wanna hear any ‘pro-Pitt Bull’ replies. These animals are KILLERS OF HUMANS and can turn on a dime; Just ask your local animal shelter.. They’re FULL of them.


10 posted on 04/11/2013 1:52:59 PM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (PRISON AT BENGHAZI?????)
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To: SeminoleCounty

I agree. That poor boy and his family. God grant them the strength to carry on. Amen.


11 posted on 04/11/2013 1:54:31 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

A neighbors ex husband moved in. He brought his pit bull with him of which I was unaware.

One day, after work, I opened the front door to my house and opened the door letting my pointers out. Together we walked towards the my mail box, when the pit bull appeared and took a running grab at one of my pointers.

The neighbor called his pit bull off, and said to me “You’re lucky I was here to stop him!”

I replied “No, you’re lucky. If your pit goes after my dogs again I’ll be after you, and I guarantee my bite is a lot worse than his.”

Over the next year 3 dogs in the neighborhood were attacked by this pit bull, and another one was killed.....needless to say my house went up for sale and I moved.....

Waiting for all the pit bull apologists to show up.....

When I explained the situation to a boyhood friend, who was a state Humane Officer, his advice before I even finished explaining the situation was to kill that pit bull ASAP with a meatball laced with rat poison..... His 25+ year experience with the breed was totally unfavorable...


12 posted on 04/11/2013 1:57:15 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (The barely bare berry bear formerly known as Ursus Arctos Horribilis.)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
The problem is, pitbulls have a certain aura that causes a lot of unqualified to want to own one.

You cannot take a pitbull and treat it like a labrador or a golden retriever. You need to be very skilled in training dogs to take on a pitbull or a dogo or whatever. Yet too many novices and neglectful owners pick one up and don't take the time to train it properly.

13 posted on 04/11/2013 1:58:07 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

You can’t train that killer instinct out. I don’t care how good a trainer you are.


14 posted on 04/11/2013 2:20:04 PM PDT by TStro
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

“...then one day the thing attacked him without provocation “

I have had the same experience with a pitbull. Lunged at my throat without warning as I sat on a couch and scratched his ears. I beat him with the couch. He seemed kinda’ sorry to have invested.


15 posted on 04/11/2013 2:29:50 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: Arthurio; Chet 99

ping to chet99, where ever he may be.


16 posted on 04/11/2013 2:29:59 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: Forty-Niner

A friend of mine would always own whatever the latest bad dog craze was. German Shepherds, Dobermans, rottweilers etc. He would not own a pitt bull though, he did not trust them. He told me if you dropped a pitt bull in a pen with three rottweilers you would end up with three dead rottweilers. He’s mellowed in his older years, he has a Labrador now.


17 posted on 04/11/2013 2:35:47 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: Resolute Conservative
There would be scorched earth at my neighbor’s house.

Good. We have a couple of idiots in my area who walk their pits thru a residential area. They've been ask to walk their animals elsewhere, but they assert their 'right to walk their dog where they damn well please'...an accident waiting to happen, considering the elderly and children that live nearby. The thing ALWAYS lunges at me if I happen to be outside.

18 posted on 04/11/2013 2:36:07 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: TStro

True, which is why you just can’t trust these animals.


19 posted on 04/11/2013 2:42:20 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Arthurio

Not “pitbulls”.


20 posted on 04/11/2013 2:44:51 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
And I DON’T wanna hear any ‘pro-Pitt Bull’ replies.

Well aren't you special.

21 posted on 04/11/2013 2:46:23 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: MizSterious; Kokojmudd; brytlea; Darnright; Sensei Ern; sangrila; rattrap; dervish; sandalwood; ...

RDO Woof


22 posted on 04/11/2013 2:48:00 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

The owner of these dogs should serve hard time.


23 posted on 04/11/2013 2:51:55 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Arthurio
The checklist.

1) Large and/or aggressive breed of dog? yes - both.

2) Running loose, >1 running loose? yes - the restraint was not sufficient to keep the dogs in when they wanted out.

3) Previous reports of violent behavior? yes - they tried to attack another young boy recently.

4) Unreasonable expectation of passivity from owner, often despite #3 above? yes - scumbag owner knew the dogs could escape at will and had previously attacked a young boy and he did NOTHING to further restrain his dangerous and aggressive dogs.

24 posted on 04/11/2013 2:54:07 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

Four out of four.


25 posted on 04/11/2013 2:54:30 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

The problem is, pitbulls have a certain aura that causes a lot of unqualified to want to own one.
__________________________________

They aren’t suitable pets. They have the unpredictable behavior and strength commonly associated with wild animals. The aura you speak of is actually their reputation for killing and not giving up once an attack begins - that is why some people simply have to own a pit bull. Some people also need to be photographed petting wild bears etc. - it makes them feel special when others retreat in caution. It makes some people feel ‘more qualified’ or special to own a pit. Those people just hate articles about pits killing adults, children, pets, horses etc.


26 posted on 04/11/2013 3:00:00 PM PDT by ransomnote
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To: allmendream

“The owner of the dogs, Edward Daniel Jr, was initially arrested on drugs charges after police found marijuana and drug paraphernalia at his home.

He was also charged with tampering with evidence, for allegedly washing blood from the dog’s face after the attack.”


27 posted on 04/11/2013 3:01:31 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: allmendream

Following your checklist, this screams murder 2 - depraved indifference to human life.


28 posted on 04/11/2013 3:08:32 PM PDT by Arthurio
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To: kanawa

The dogs should be euthanized and the owner should be charged with at *least* manslaughter.

There is no excuse for the dogs having done this and it falls squarely on the owner’s head.

However, I seriously doubt the owner will get squat.

For some stupid reason, people think just killing the dumb animals is some kind of acceptable recompense.

This will NOT stop until owners of *all* pets are held responsible for -whatever- their pet does.


29 posted on 04/11/2013 3:25:24 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

How funny.

That’s what they *used* to say about Dobermanns.

Different day, same crapaganda.


30 posted on 04/11/2013 3:28:07 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Arthurio

Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

Group: Mastiff

Origin:

The Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog results from three generations of an old breeding program of PaPa Buck Lane of Rebecca, Georgia, USA.

The program started back in the 1800s and was intended to rescue the “plantation dog” of southern Georgia that was nearly extinct.

This rare, bulldog-type guard dog descends form Buck Lane’s dog named Otto. Lana Lou spoke of her granddaddy as always having had an “Otto” about the estate. One Otto was all one needed since these Bulldogs were capable of guard work and woods work.

When PaPa Buck was killed by a train in 1943, his Otto proved his undying devotion by constant visitation and guard duty over the grave. Buck Lane’s granddaughter, Lana Lou Lane continued the breeding program until she passed away in her sleep on July 20, 2001.

Like the Plott Hound, this muscular breed is the creation of one American family, and its survival depends upon the nurturing it receives. Originating from English Bulldog stock, this dog’s ancestors functioned as cattle and pig herders, but the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog is bred solely for security and companionship.

The Animal Research Foundation (ARF) was the first all-breed registry to ever recognize the late Ms. Lana Lou Lane’s “Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldogs” in 1986. Ms. Lane was an ARF Certified Breeder up and until her passing in 2001, after which time her elderly mother, Mrs. Vivian Lane, took over her business affairs. Later, Mrs. Vivian Lane sold her daughter’s kennel.

Temperament:

As a rare breed of dog the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog is not commonly found in most areas. They are reported be an excellent companion dog as well as a protector that will loyally and fiercely protect their family from any type of danger. Although they are a protective breed they are not considered to be aggressive and will not typically attack or protect unless they are provoked or are on their own territory.

The Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog is a very trainable dog that is extremely intelligent, calm and accepting of family and pets. While they will chase and do have some prey instinct they can also be trained to accept cats and other dogs in the family. Typically the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog will be somewhat of a dominant type of dog so it is strongly recommended to have them spayed or neutered if not being used for breeding purposes and pair them with an opposite gender, non-dominant spayed or neutered companion dog.

The Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog is great with children and has an amazing tolerance for kids of all ages. They are, however, highly protective of kids so it is important to introduce these dogs to friends and kid’s playmates to avoid any misunderstand on the part of the dog.

While a large and active dog the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog is very quiet and relaxed when in the house. They will usually find a quiet space beside their owner and simply watch what is going on, always vigilant and attentive to their environment and the needs of their family. The Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog will bond very strongly with the family and needs to be able to keep people in sight. Although they can be outdoors in a well fenced and secure area in moderate climates they really do prefer to be part of the family.

The breed enjoys going for walks and outings, although it is very important to have them well trained and keep them on a lead at all times. The Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog will defend the owner from strange dogs that approach, often with very negative consequences so leash training, socialization and obedience training is essential if these dogs are to be taken out of a fenced area.

Links:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/alapahabluebloodbulldogs.htm

http://www.terrificpets.com/dog_breeds/Alapha_Blue_Blood_Bulldogs.asp


31 posted on 04/11/2013 3:29:50 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: BBell

Oh, frog snot.

During my period of solo Dobermann rescue, I happened to pick up a Pit bitch that the shelter couldn’t rehome due to extremely bad physical condition.

Even the mushy Ibizan Hounds pushed her around.

She went to a girl who adored that dog and never during its entire lifetime did she have one second’s ‘trouble’ from her.

All my rehomes were trained before they left here and were model citizens.

Thank God your friend got over himself and picked a less trendy breed.


32 posted on 04/11/2013 3:32:48 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Salamander

Completely agree, although I hope you’re wrong about the owner facing no consequences.


33 posted on 04/11/2013 3:34:53 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: allmendream

Owner needs jail time.

LOTS of it.


34 posted on 04/11/2013 3:34:56 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: kanawa

Nobody cares to notice or remark upon this?

“The owner of the dogs, Edward Daniel Jr, was initially arrested on drugs charges after police found marijuana and drug paraphernalia at his home.”

I’m so shocked.

/not


35 posted on 04/11/2013 3:36:51 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: kanawa

How often do these losers pay the price for what they themselves have caused?

Not often enough.

Were it my child [and I couldn’t get away with my “first choice”] I’d be seeking his permanent place behind bars and suing him blind, simultaneously.

Odds are that I wouldn’t even seek the death of the dogs.

I’d want them alive somewhere with proper owners while his filthy, drug addled, _totally responsible_ carcass rotted away in jail, just for psychological spite.


36 posted on 04/11/2013 3:43:53 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: ransomnote

“Those people just hate articles about pits killing adults, children, pets, horses etc.”

Nah.

They just loathe the wanton dissemination of misinformation.

People get enough of that from the lying liberal media and animal rights wackos.


37 posted on 04/11/2013 3:45:53 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Salamander

The animal control officer who spoke with Daniels after the attack told deputies he had a “non-caring attitude” when he learned his two dogs had viciously attacked Tyler. Daniels remained in jail Sunday evening on a $29,000 bond.

Police are continuing with their investigations and Daniels could be looking at additional charges, including culpable negligence and manslaughter, according to Bay County Sheriff’s officials.

Daniels just doesn’t seem to have much luck with dogs. In May, Daniels was walking his sister’s bulldog mix when it bit a 9-year-old neighborhood boy in the face without provocation. The dog was turned over to animal control who later destroyed it due to a previous unprovoked attack in 2010.

Last week, animal control officers responded to Daniels’ home after the same two dogs that killed Tyler entered a neighbor’s home and threatened a man. Daniels was cited for allowing the dogs to run loose.

Another neighbor stated the same two dogs tried to get at two young girls in their fenced-in backyard last week. She said her husband warned Daniels the dogs should be on a leash.

“This is what happens when people don’t listen and don’t pay attention to what their dogs are doing,” the neighbor said.


The link I have for this appears to be a secondary source and I’ve been unable to track down the original.

http://worldduh.com/2013/04/08/tyler-jett-7-dies-after-being-attacked-by-neighbors-two-bulldogs/


38 posted on 04/11/2013 3:50:44 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: kanawa

That is incredible.

How is that I have had Dobermanns for almost 40 years, most of them coming from God-knows-what circumstances and totally unknown histories, yet have *never* had one of them even remotely attempt to bite/threaten/scare anyone in any sort of unwarranted fashion?

None ever “roamed free”, harassed neighbors, exhibited inappropriate behavior or touched children except with big, sloppy tongues.

Oh...wait..I train my dogs, restrain my dogs and am a responsible owner.

Never mind.

[I’m embarrassed to death if *my* dogs get too happy-idiotic at the pet store when they see little kids they want to love on]


39 posted on 04/11/2013 4:02:20 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Salamander

I don’t now what state you live in but in some states re-homing of pitt bulls is not allowed at the local shelters. Too much liability so the the pittbulls are euthanized. I know it’s sad but I’m glad there are people like you who will take them in. My Mother used to do a small dog rescue. She even went to the State Capital to protest puppy mills. A lot of their rescues originated in puppy mills.


40 posted on 04/11/2013 4:23:04 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: Salamander
Cesar Millan would be proud of you.


41 posted on 04/11/2013 4:25:54 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: BBell

Puppy mills are dog hell on earth and the AKC is culpable in that they have *no* problem registering the many thousands of pups born in them every year.

We have a lot of backyard breeders in my general area who have their dogs pumping out babies in severely substandard environments and the AKC reps come in, see a “shelter” of the meanest sort, some kind of food and water, regardless of quality or cleanliness and cheerfully “pass” the greeders’ inspection.

That any of those poor dogs mange to live out their years as loved, well behaved pets is a miracle.

I have seen things that would make you vomit.

The little Pit bitch was wandering around in the office of the shelter, waiting to die because the staff knew she was ‘hopeless’ and wanted her to feel happiness for as long as she could.

She had been on a 2 foot chain in a backyard and was ‘gang bred’ by the local strays, resulting in 8 puppies, none of which looked anything like each other.

Despite the shelter’s efforts, all her babies died of massive worm infection.

Rowan [so named because she was red] survived her worm infection but was so emaciated and wretched that they knew no one would even think of adopting her.

It was on one of my regular visits hunting for Dobes that I found her.

I asked the director who that pretty little dog was and she looked around, trying to figure what I was talking about.

When I pointed, she said “You mean *her*?!?”

That sealed it.

Dog was coming home with me.

I took her back a month later and nobody even recognized her.

She was one of the most delightful, polite, “soft” and gentle dogs I’ve ever known.

How she could have gone through every horrible thing she had and not bear a grudge against people is beyond me.

I just wish her new owner hadn’t re-named her “Beavis”.

:-\


42 posted on 04/11/2013 5:22:28 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America; kanawa
And I DON’T wanna hear any ‘pro-Pitt Bull’ replies.

You wee n00bie do not call the tune around here.

Second these dogs are labeled in the article as bull dogs not pit bulls.

You are still unable to spell pit bull too. I swear if I had a dog as slow as you are I would kill it and bury it deep.


Here I'll even post a picture of a baby kissing a pit bull for you 'lil feller. Now you not only get to hear a pro pit bull reply but you even get a visual.

How do you like them apples boy?

43 posted on 04/11/2013 6:54:58 PM PDT by Eaker (Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. — Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: kanawa

>Not “pitbulls”.<

It doesn’t matter. They’ll yammer on and on about pit bulls, despite the fact this poor child was killed by two different breeds of dog.

The owner of these out-of-control, dangerous dogs needs to be held as responsible as if he killed that boy himself.


44 posted on 04/11/2013 6:56:29 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: Salamander
I would be suspect of someone who named their dog Beavis. I know about the AKC and it means nothing to me. Any real dog people will tell you to never trust the AKC, go directly to the breeder of the dog you want and check out their lineage. Almost every kind of dog out there has a club exclusively for whatever breed they prefer. These are the people you deal with to avoid a puppy mill dog.

I currently have a rescue dog. His mother was found chained to a tree behind a house that the former occupants had abandoned. None of the puppys looked alike either but the mom was beagle or part beagle. The dog I have came prenamed and we kept the name, Booray. He kind of looks like a beagle but he's very large and broad. He also has very light blue eyes. We think he may have catahoula in him. He's a good boy though, I think he may have some pot belly pig in him as he is broad and fat. Everyone that sees him has to try and guess what he is. To me he's just a dog.

45 posted on 04/11/2013 8:15:08 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: Salamander

And a tragic page featuring the death of a child is simply not enough to give pit defenders pause out of respect for lost life. No! They must use the death of a child to talk about....a dog....gotta keep perspective right? Let’s talk about dogs dogs dogs and how they are misrepresented on a page about a dead child. Yup.


46 posted on 04/11/2013 10:06:37 PM PDT by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote

Sorry...did I hit a nerve?

Did I not say these particular dogs should be killed, right off the bat?

Did I not say the owner should be locked up forever to rot?

What more do you want?

A blanket statement calling for the extermination of ALL pit/pit type/anything that remotely resembles a Pit?

Ain’t gonna happen.

Wholesale slaughter of any particular thing sounds a bit too Fascist for my tastes.

YMMV.


47 posted on 04/12/2013 12:22:42 AM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Darnright

“The owner of these out-of-control, dangerous dogs needs to be held as responsible as if he killed that boy himself.”

Needs to be repeatedly screamed from the rooftops for every single incident like this.

Only when _the people_ pay their due price will it end.


48 posted on 04/12/2013 12:25:04 AM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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To: Salamander
I just wish her new owner hadn’t re-named her “Beavis”.

Maybe the new owner was looking to partner up with Beavis. We all know what that would make the owner...

49 posted on 04/12/2013 12:25:44 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: BBell

She thought Rowan’s goofy grin looked like Beavis laughing.

*shrug*

Nice woman with lousy taste in TV, is all.

I’m glad your dog got a happy ending.

Too many don’t.


50 posted on 04/12/2013 12:27:21 AM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
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