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To: sten
courts and trials are used by man to sort out issues between the citizens.

Agreed. And courts and trials are established by man as part of civil government which governments are established by man.

That makes it hard to understand how the US Constitution can recognize your right "...to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed...” as having been bestowed upon you, by your Creator... long before any civil govt existed to establish courts and trials to be used by man to sort out issues between the citizens.

19 posted on 05/17/2013 10:22:18 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

The the right to a speedy and fair trail is an extension of the fundamental right to life, and the right not to be deprived of it, along with your other basic rights. The constitution recognizes this but does so within the specific context of the common law tradition where jury trials evolved over time as the preferred method of settling disputes fairly.

This is the same with many aspects of our form of government, where tradition outlines the specific way in which a fundamental right is to be protected.

The topic is interesting, because Edmund Burke argued that all our rights are essentially traditional in nature and that it makes little sense for a country with no history of respecting them and enshrining them in law, to have a revolution and all of a sudden have liberty.

This is why he simultaneously rejected the validity of the French revolution while accepting the American one.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-political-philosophy-edmund-burke-267253.html?cat=37


20 posted on 05/18/2013 2:47:23 PM PDT by d_focil
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To: KrisKrinkle

the rights existed long before the govt.

the governmental framework was established to help sort issues between citizens and promote an orderly society.

you have a ‘right’ to a speedy trial as the govt is expected to sort out the issues as part of its duties.

in this case, the ‘right’ is expecting the govt, an entity we all pay for, to do its job.


21 posted on 05/19/2013 8:13:28 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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