Posted on 06/12/2013 5:51:38 PM PDT by re_tail20
The House Armed Services Committee voted unanimously on an amendment to the 2014 National Defense Authorization Act that would require the Army to finish phase III of the Individual Carbine competition. The competition would determine if, and what rifle may replace the M4 in service today.
The Individual Carbine competition began over five years ago and has pitted offerings from top-tier companies against each other to find out if newer carbines perform better than what’s in use currently, including Colt, FNH, Heckler & Koch, KAC and Remington.
In 2012 the Army began phase II of the competition, having narrowed their selections down to the the Adcor Defense BEAR Elite, the Beretta ARX-160, and the Colt Enhanced M4, FN FNAC, the Heckler & Koch HK416A5 and the Remington ACR, to see if they outperformed the M4A1.
Earlier this year, however, the program was audited by the Defense Department, which determined that the costs of the final trials were inconsistent with the existing M4 upgrade Product Improvement Program (PIP) and found that the Army, which is already facing cutbacks, should push the $49 million set aside for phase III back upstream for other uses.
In May, the Army issued a statement that they in consideration of the audit that they would suspend further evaluation of replacement rifles. The program was suspended, not to see further trials.
(Excerpt) Read more at guns.com ...
I like that these choices are moving to piston systems. I built my last impingement gun three years ago and haven't built anything but piston guns since. I consider the Osprey to be the best/most reliable, and the Adams Arms to be the most versatile. I've built and tested both extensively, until ammo got cost prohibitive.
There is nothing wrong with the 5.56mm cartridge. The problem is the bullet. It’s designed to go through light armor and it does that well. What it sucks at is expanding rapidly and dumping its energy into the target. A 62 soft point is absolutely devastating at all but the most extreme ranges.
Even an open tip projectile would be a huge improvement.
The Army also thinks that most combat in the future will be in urban city areas, instead of in vast distance battlefields. So they think the 5.56 is the best choice for urban combat. For any distance or special needs requiring a heavier bullet, they have a sniper version of the M-14 and the M-110 sniper rifle.
Even an open tip projectile would be a huge improvement.
The Geneva Convention would not allow the use of open tip or hollow point bullets in warfare.
Hardball only.
To be honest I don’t know that much about guns. I only owned a .270, 30.06, several shotguns—pump and single shot, a .22 semi-automatic rifle and a 9mm pistol. Owned. I like reading about them, but couldn’t make any type of knowledgeable statement on the types in this article.
The Army needs better ammunition (something with adequately long bullets in the 6.5-6.8 range). And we know that such short weapons (seen in the article) are all the rage without enough analytical, objective regards to ballistics—especially terminal ballistics. Not all battles are fought in urban or thick jungle areas, and 20” barrels aren’t hard to carry or swing. I carried and M-203 most of the time (a 60 at about 23 pounds plus ammo belts, for one year).
Unless we’re talking in-Country then DHS has set a new standard with their top of line HPs.
“The Geneva Convention would not allow the use of open tip or hollow point bullets in warfare.”
Incorrect. The USMC has been issued open tip ammo for the last couple of years.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2544535/posts
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I think back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, several nations determined the best compromise of bullet size, power, recoil etc. was the 6.5mm.
Sweden, Greece, Italy, Japan and others all went to the 6.5. My first high powered rifle was a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser, which I ordered through the mail around 1963. I also bought some of the old military surplus with the long, parallel sided round nosed fmj bullets. They weighed 160 grains and would penetrate to an unbelievable degree.
I think the 6.5 is still the best compromise but with lighter, pointed bullets. I bet a 140 grain fmj pointed boat tail bullet would perform great at long and short range.
For the sake of myself, and others who do not know, can you please explain the difference between a rifle and a carbine?
Generally speaking, a carbine has a short barrel and a rifle has a long barrel.
Incorrect. The USMC has been issued open tip ammo for the last couple of years.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2544535/posts
Thanks for the Info.Still I doubt that if this were a war against a signatory of the Geneva Convention that the U.S. military would be legally allowed to use that round.
In this case though it does look very good.
I don’t know what the dictionary definition is but carbine is usually used to denote a shorter and handier rifle as opposed to a full sized one.
It is getting to where just about everyone is using shorter and handier standard battle rifles. So I guess they are both a carbine and maybe still considered a standard rifle.
I didn’t realize the difference was that basic. Can the fire the same rounds?
$49 million just for phase III? Sounds like bureaucracy to me...
They sometimes fire the same round and sometimes they don’t.
The U.S. M1 Carbine fires a much weaker round than the M1 Garand.
On the other hand, during WWI the Germans standard battle rifle had a 29 inch barrel. They produced a shorter version with a 24 inch barrel (98K with the K being short for Karabiner). They were close to identical except for length. Now a 24 inch rifle would be considered pretty long.
The Spanish issued a carbine which was chambered for the 9mm Largo which is a pistol round. It was called the Destroyer and typically issued to police.
Sent you a Freepmail in regards to 6.5 (link to a thread with pictures about what can be done with less than a European load behind it).
In the case of the M4 carbine and M16 rifle they both chamber and fire the same 5.56 NATO cartridge. That was not the case with the M1 Garand and the M1 carbine.
7.62 over 5.56 all day every day.
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