Health officials respond to beach radiation scare (Half Moon Bay, CA)

hmbreview.com ^ | January 3, 2014 | Mark Noack

[ransomnote]

AlexW said:
“You act as if their are giant logs of enriched uranium floating towards California beaches. Glow in the dark beach bunnies...hey, that might be trendy.”

No. No one is acting as if there are “giant logs of enriched uranium floating towards California beaches.” You are the only one to write something remotely like that. You just made that up to falsely equate legitimate interest in reports of increased radiation on a beach which had been previously shown to be possible via computer modeling, with wild irrational fantasies. That’s standard for nuke pimps. They often post things like ‘were all gonna die!” to cloud the issue when in fact it’s only nuke pimps what write such trash.

[wfu_deacons]

I’m not going to get into a drawn out discussion about the risks of low level radiation exposure with you. I have two post-graduate degrees, one in health physics and one in radiation oncology physics. I have worked in the radiation field for 30 years. It is my belief that the Linear Non-Threshold models for radiation exposure over estimates the health risk.

I do find it interesting that you discount the radiation exposure in Denver because it is not inhaled or injested. In the next paragraph, you pooh-pooh radon exposure which is inhaled/ingested. Radon is an alpha emitter and thus the radiation biological equivalent dose per interaction is quite large as compared to a gamma interaction. Radon is thought to be the second leading cause of lung cancer in the US.

[AlexW]

” reports of increased radiation on a beach which had been previously shown to be possible via computer modeling”
____________________________________
No, I was simply injecting a little humor into the subject.
Computer modeling? Well, you know the term GIGO.
Get back to me when the Geiger counters on west coast beaches
start pegging out. In the meantime, watch out for those glow in the dark beach babes ;)

[nvscanman]

I have degrees in natural science and radiologic technology and have worked with radiation for more than 3 decades. Unless you can trump that I AM the expert.

[Talisker]

Of course it can, but what is the level by the time it reaches America? US navy sailors helping out AT Fukashima is a non sequitor, and has nothing to do with the subject. You act as if their are giant logs of enriched uranium floating towards California beaches. Glow in the dark beach bunnies...hey, that might be trendy.

Do you think that the Captain of the ship would have put those sailors in harm's way on purpose? The radiation dosage they received certainly was NOT planned or expected, or those men NEVER would have ben exposed to it! That means the amount of radiation at Fukushima was not admitted by the Japanese - and that makes it extremely relevent, especially in trying to determine the amount that could reach America.

As for the rest, you are the one play-acting here. And you're doing it to minimize the extremely alarming and highly significant severe radiation poisoning of those sailors, which under no possible means was "expected."

[AlexW]

“Do you think that the Captain of the ship would have put those sailors in harm’s way on purpose? “
________________________________________________
You are comparing apples to oranges. Do you not understand the difference between a ship just offshore of Fukashima and
the American west coast, 6000 miles away? The water is not going to be radioactive, and chunks of radioactive debris are not going to be washing up on the US west coast shores.

[Talisker]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Do you not understand the difference between a ship just offshore of Fukashima and the American west coast, 6000 miles away? The water is not going to be radioactive, and chunks of radioactive debris are not going to be washing up on the US west coast shores.

This paper models the dispersion of radioactive material from Fukushima over time (watch the included video): Model simulations on the long-term dispersal of 137Cs released into the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima

I'm right about the fact that the injuries to the sailors was not expected, and that the Japanese lied about the severity of the radioactivity at Fukushima.

As exemplified by (but not limited to) the above paper, I'm right about the travel of radioactive materials across the Pacific to the West Coast from Fukushima.

What's left? The amount of radioactivity and it's effects? Fine - I never argued that. Obviously the ocean would dilute it. But what level is safe, under what conditions? With the Japanese government lying to the US Navy, does the US even know how radioactive the place is? And if it found out, do you really think it would tell us?

As well, what are the concentrations of radioactivity spreading across the Pacific that will affect sea life? Fish, and especially plankton? How sensitive are they? What percentages will die, and how will that effect the ecosystems that rely on them - and how will that affect the fishing industries for the entire Pacific Rim? Maybe the fish will be radioactive, from certain concentration areas. But maybe they'll just die - along with the plankton. Do you not understand why this is a gigantic deal?

I really don't understand your point. Multiple nuclear reactors have melted down to the bedrock and are dumping hundreds of tons of highly radioactive water into the Pacific ocean. Here's the bottom line: that's bad.

Okay?

[AlexW]

“Okay?”
_______________________________________
OK, but as Albert Goreon says...You are gonna first die from Gorebal warming. What is going to be first? I seriously doubt that Fukashima radioactive water is going to have any effect on the US west coast, but I am not a nukier engineer like our boy, Jimmah. Good luck, and buy your radiation suit and gear before the apocalypse, or move inland. Oh yea, be sure that you do not go in the water.

[Talisker]

You cartoon mockery is noted. What, if anything else, you’ve added to this discussion is hard to see.

[aLurker]

Your “story” about the deluded woman is irrelevant

An example of Fukushima-related psychosomatic radiation sickness is very relevant. It demonstrates irrational human behavior and the ignorance-driven, conspiracy mindset ("Things are much worse than they're telling us!")

Radiation scares us, with good reason. We can't see or feel it, but we know it can make us sick, give us cancer, and even kill us outright. Since that is all most people know about it, upon learning that they may have been exposed to any higher than normal levels of radiation, however low, it is not uncommon for them to begin to manifest symptoms. (See a discussion of the psychological aspects of such an incident here). As stories and rumors of radiation sickness spread, more attribute any symptoms to radiation to which they must have been unknowingly exposed.

Sailors are lying or nukes are too smart for that...”

You seem to be letting some kind of personal issue you have with Navy nukes affect your reasoning ability, so I'll clarify my point. Radiation ionizes indiscriminately, affecting nuke and non-nuke sailors equally. If sailors were exposed to doses sufficient to produce acute radiation sickness, nukes would have been similarly affected. If however, the alleged "radiation poisoning" was caused by "4500 people freaking out" (to quote the Radiation Officer), it makes sense that the nukes would know better than to worry about radiation sickness from a few mrem (or a few thousand, for that matter).

Can you explain why the nukes were not affected? Did they dodge the zoomies? Are they immune? Or are they part of the conspiracy (sworn to secrecy--even to death?) /sarc

[ransomnote]

Yes. I can trump that. I have degrees in natural science and biological sciences.
I used to respect the professional knowledge of those in the radiologic technology field. At some point I considered working in the nuclear energy field. Then when Fukushima hit I started to study up on what had happened in the nuclear energy field since I was in college. I was dismayed that none of the challenges set before the industry so long ago had been addressed.

Then I began to interact with radiologic “experts” on FReeRepublic. One conversation at a time, the lack of professionalism and knowledge on the part of those who specialize in all things nuclear and radiological tore down my opinion of those disciplines. The shocking lack of ethics and professional development, the contempt for citizenry, the preening over false superiority (pointing to credentials and claiming expertise while acting like a ignorant buffoon) all eroded nuclear power and it’s related technologies. Your expertise is too limited and biased and is too feeble to trump the rest of the people on this board. To make decisions and have opinions on these issues requires ethics and willingness to learn - you and others in your field have neither. So you’re a big bad “expert” in your own mind but I can’t respect your “credentials.”

[ransomnote]

Computer modeling? Well, you know the term GIGO.
________________________________________________

Well, Japan’s SPEEDI data was computer modeling based on current weather conditions and it accurately predicted the speed and direction of the radioactive plume - but maybe you don’t want computers to do that because that would reveal information you don’t want people to know. I won’t bother getting back to you when the Geiger counters peg because you don’t respond to new information.

[ransomnote]

Let’s just agree then to disagree because I can point to cutting edge scientific research and you don’t happen to agree with it.

I dismiss radon in exaasperation following countless debates with people who suggest things like

a) the study of Kuala Lumpur “proves” that no one should worry about Fukushima. Of course it does no such thing and the study they point to didn’t even bother to assess how much exposure to radon from thermal hotsprings individual study participants experienced - it’s just that lived in a town with radon hotsprings. The study cherry picked paticipants from least sensistive cohorts and only lasted 7 years without collecting exposure data and consisted of too small a sample size. I see radon and I think, “Aw not this again.

b) Fukushima is harmless because some people in the US actually go down into mines full of radon to intentionally expose themselves to radiation for health reasons (cultivating maximum health).

c) You didn’t spend any time worrying about radon coming up from the ground today, why care about unprecidented levels of nuclear waste being pumped into the air and water. So much wrong here...yeah radon. I get tired of the false comparisons and being told I should not complain about being downwind and down current from 3 nuclear cores which have escaped containment. Yup 3 melt downs and I shouldn’t have an opinion.

[AlexW]

” I won’t bother getting back to you when the Geiger counters peg because you don’t respond to new information.”
_______________________________________________________
Oh, I am sure I will know when the counters start pegging out.
Are you living on the west coast? Are you prepping to leave?
Where will you go?

[ransomnote]

For some reason, nuke pimps always portray the public as raving hypocondriacs and remain astonishingly unaware of the medical history of those who lived with the result of Chernobyl. It’s strange - people are actively dying of radiation related illnesses to this day but nuclear apologists still insist that illness results from fear, not exposure.
______________________

Radiation scares us, with good reason. We can’t see or feel it, but we know it can make us sick, give us cancer, and even kill us outright.

---

Yes but it’s more than that. Those entrusted to manage nuclear power plants and their supporters in the government established a disasterous history of lying to the public. The Soviets “didn’t want people to panic” so they told the public that everything was just fine after Chernobyl blew up. They encouraged the public to hold the scheduled fair in the shadow of the smoldering smoke stacks and there were celebratory parades in the dense fallout. Then the Soviets did the math and realized that if the public remained in the town they would all be dead in approximately 1 - 2 weeks. That’s the only thing that broke the Soviet’s willingness to admit anything was wrong - the entire population would die in a week or two. Now what to do? They told the public that as a precaution they would bus them out of town for a few days (or weeks) and discouraged them from packing or bringing anything with them because they’d be back soon. So the public was not told they could never return until they reached their destination. Oh and they pioneered the use of the false claim that fear of radiation is more harmful than radiation. For the first 3 years following Chernobyl, the Soviets made it illegal for physicians to report deaths as having occurred as a result of exposure to radiation. People who were there visiting first responders later realized that the doctors themselves were dropping like flies (dying) around them because they were treating highly irradiated people in the ER’s without any protective geer themselves. The public had been trained in advance that nuclear power plants could not fail and the Soviets later admitted they never trained the public to respond in an emergency because they “didn’t want people to worry.”
Yes I know that this is Soviet data but it is the template upon which the nuclear power industry bases it’s false assurances (nuclear power plants can’t fail) and refusal to notify the public in an event (nothing to see her, move along) and it’s flat out denial of illnesses and environmental damage related to radiation. I’m no longer surprised that, despite knowing that 3 reactors failed an containment domes blew up, the government of Japan directed mayors of the surrounding prefectures NOT to release their emergency potassium iodide to the public. Only one mayor defied this order and distributed it to the children in his town. It goes on and on. Those entrusted with nuclear assets are lying sociopaths in the habit of blaming the public for over reacting.

I find it bizarre that the nuclear industry comfortably ignores 100% of it’s responsibility for disasters and resulting illnesses and places ALL the blame on people for being distrustful. People who’ve been lied to repeatedly are distrustful? NO! Say it isn’t so!

[ransomnote]

Hey the text returned! By itself? There are more qualifying statements but key elements are intact!

http://www.hmbreview.com/news/health-officials-respond-to-beach-radiation-scare/article_8c7e7fb0-74de-11e3-9c9d-001a4bcf887a.html

[logi_cal869]

The vast majority of people and the media are completely ignorant about the hazards of radioactive material, chemicals, and nuclear power in general.

OMG you hit the nail on the friggin' head.

My forehead's deformed from slamming it into my coffee table.

I, for one, will no longer preach to anyone about radiation after being accused by another freeper of being 'dramatic', with her claim to fame being 'trained'. I'll continue to post that which is pertinent for those that can use the info, but won't engage the ignorant. Anybody reading/posting here has the tool to educate. For most it's just 'too much trouble' or a problem finding out that what they know is 'wrong'.

People need to educate themselves. Those that don't, f'em. To bad so sad, suck it.