Posted on 01/26/2014 9:47:40 AM PST by EinNYC
Any FReepers have any idea why the radiators in my home are just sort of warm to the touch but not toasty? Or, even stone cold? Enough to cause 60-66 degree temps in the house, which is decidedly NOT comfortable? Is it bad valves? Bad boiler (but there's plenty of hot water from the sinks)? A bad pump? When the maintenance guys bleed the non-functioning radiators, hot water pours out, but the radiator was not radiating heat. Just as cold as stone.
The maintenance guys told me that a "second pump has just been installed", but I am still forced to wear double everything INSIDE my home. Everyone sits down to dinner wearing their winter hat, double everything and heavy socks, right?
Thanks for any information about what you think is ailing this non-functioning heating system.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
The only way to introduce air into a pressurized system is through dissolved gasses in the boiler feed water.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Buy one new radiator and install it. That will serve as an inexpensive first test to see if the radiator is built up with deposits or if you have another problem.
Even when working properly, I found my circulating hot water system could not keep the house much warmer than 60 degrees when the temps outside went sub-zero.
We had a wood stove in the basement as a supplement.
That's my guess.
I live in an old house with the original radiators. I've been here 30 years and never had to do a thing. The system has been drained from time to time when we've had major plumbing done, but we've never touched the radiators. Of course, they're 100 years old, so they were made back before things got "improved."
I've been without other sources of heat in the bitter cold. A radiant heater is the only thing that made it tolerable.
Saw a weather report last week while in the BVI that showed Key West with a low of 52.
It handles cat food very well.
:Must be some heckuva cat!
Did they start at the uppermost one and work downwards?
Whoa -- you may also be throwing a lot of sediment down there that will contribute to clogging the sewer line. Best to strain any dirty water through a rag or some paper towels placed in a large sieve or colander, so that only water passes through. Then throw the accumluated sediment in the trash.
I miss the radiators in my former house! Loved them! The cats loved them! Perfect for drying wet clothes when you come in from sledding, warming your towels before you get out of the shower, drying your hand-washing, or just sitting on or against when you are having a bad day!
Was so amazed the first time they drained the system (twice in 20 years, and that was to do a renovation, not a repair) to see the water come out thick and inky black...
Now I have PVC pipe and have learned I must keep the house above 62 degrees at all times or my bathroom pipes will freeze, in spite of the so-called energy efficient insulated and Tyveked construction. Gets expensive not being able to turn the thermostat down at night or if we are away for a couple of days in winter.
Many of the answers here are incorrect. Many might be okay, but the key clue is that you had a pump replaced. Maybe the pump was never the real problem Tech = parts changer.
1. What is the boiler temperature (see gauge)? If 160 to 180+ degrees (F), this eliminates many possibilities. If it is way below that, your boiler isn’t firing, no wonder you have no heat.
2. What is the water pressure (see gauge) in the boiler? (how many heated stories?). It should be 15-20 psi. for up to a two story building. If it is zero, you don’t have enough water in the boiler. It is very common after replacing a pump or anything that required a loss of water to the system, the automatic water feed valve (from lack of use) is stuck, not allowing water to automatically refill the system. You can’t bleed the air out without water pressure. Water can usually be added manually and a good rap on a mechanical auto feeder may unstick it. (but beware that it is isn’t now stuck open, even slightly) as overfill will occur and the relief valve will blow, dumping water.
3. Make sure that all appropriate valves are open and, if any, bypass valves are closed. The most common problem immediately following a pump change is the failure of the parts changer to reopen all the valves he closed.
4. If you have actual radiators, the system will heat somewhat even if the pump isn’t working. So for now let’s move on to “air”.
5. Go to the top floor with a paper cup or equivalent and open SLIGHTLY the little air vent with your radiator key (or small screwdriver or dime if you have “coin vents”) until you here air escaping or water coming out. Continue to let all air out even if it is a mixture. If a mixture close the valve so that mostly air comes out and not mostly water, essentially “spitting” until you only have water. Repeat at all highest radiators, then move down a floor and repeat.
Now, if air or water stops coming out, no more water and no hissing sound, you don’t have enough pressure to continue. You must wait until pressure returns or manually add water. Air compresses water doesn’t. The more air in the system the more water you’ll have to keep adding to get up to 15-20 psi. As air is evacuated and water replaces it, the pressure will come up more and more quickly. Keep bleeding until you get just or mostly water (an occasional spurt is ok) out of the bleeders. You are almost done. Recheck boiler pressure. Now wait. It may take quite awhile to heat the added water back up, depending on many factors.
After about an hour (guessing on this too many unknowns) recheck the radiators for air. If all is well, check again in a few days, as air will continue over time to get trapped at the top of the radiators. Once you get all the air out, it will stay that way until someone or some problem introduces air back into the system.
The radiators should start getting hot at one end and then progress to the other. If it doesn’t progress, check the radiators for levelness. They should be level to a little high at the vent end so that air will not get trapped at the end opposite the vent. Use a two foot level if possible. If not, use a flat piece of wood or steel on top of the radiator and put your torpedo or short level on that, thus creating a much longer level. The radiator sections are not precise so you must span many of them to get an accurate reading.
6. The pump. Unless it is a large, red, Bell & Gossett pump with a coupling, you can usually tell if a pump is running just by putting your ear to it. CAUTION the pump may be very HOT, so check with your hand first. You may also feel a vibration with your hand or hear water rushing through the pipes. This is actually air sloshing around in the pipes so if you hear nothing, this may be a good thing as pipes in a system without air is quiet.
In closing, the most important thing to check is the temperature and pressure gauge. (usually a combination gauge, but they can be separate.) A nonfunctioning, broken, or unreadable gauge must first be replaced before any diagnosis can begin. They can be very old and still be functional.
Good luck. It’s the best I can do with almost no information. Retired now, but owned my own plumbing & heating business for 28 years and worked for someone else for 7 years. Hot water heating was our specialty.
TIP: ALWAYS call a PLUMBING and heating company to work on your hot water heating system. Plumbing is a pipe fitting trade. Heating and air conditioning companies are a sheet metal trade (ductwork). Hot water heating will usually be the smallest part of their business as air conditioning and scorched air heating are their bread & butter. Most people don’t realize this. This won’t apply in every case, so unless you know better call a plumbing and heating company.
Sounds like the same problem I was having. I have two heating zones in my house and both zone flow control valves were shot and needed to be replaced. They both had heavy calcium buildup from years of use. They’re simple to check. Assuming the thermostat is working, crank up your thermostat and wait for the boiler to kick on. Check the pipe on both sizes of the flow control valve. The pipe should be hot on both sides if the flow control valve is functioning properly. If the boiler side is hot, but the other side is cold, the valve is history.
Tell him not me stupid. I don’t have the issue.
Yea hootyowl, I have to agree with you. CLR in a HEALTHY system can work wonders. But some of the really old buildings that we owned outside of Philly sported some of the most ancient piping you could imagine. And yea, after a treatment, we had some pipes that looked like garden sprinklers.
Lesson learned.
But, we had our own pipe cutting and threading tools, so we just cut off the bad parts and spliced in the new.
Sometimes though, it was more economical and practical to just overhaul the whole system, run new pipes, get the radiators to a pro and have them cooked out. Lots of work, but when you get an old cast iron system up and running like it was new, it will last another 100 years and give you some good low cost heat.
We tried switching to the copper base boards on one place. Mistake. The copper cooled way too fast (the cast radiators [and the black pipe] radiated heat long after the circulator pump shut down) and the fuel oil costs were noticeably higher.
Nothing at all wrong with the old systems if you know how to maintain them. And the bottom line, it really isn’t that hard or expensive.
You know that....and I know that......just sayin’... lol
Ah, gotcha.
I think you might want to go back and reread what you wrote in light of my comment before you call me 'stupid'.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
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