Under My Thumb lyrics as sung by Mick Jagger

vanity | 3/30/14 | Mick Jagger & Keith Richards

[Albion Wilde]

To be egotistical enough to think you will/could change him is a recipe for guaranteed disappointment.

To your point, did she think that? Probably, given her background, she hoped for it and looked for signs, but if she had that kind of ego herself, might still be with us. I see it as a Gordian Knot. She was 35 when they got together. According to a story in the Brit press, they actually prepared a nursery in the apartment he bought for her and tried to have a child but it didn't happen.

She was 35 at the outset, but later, facing 50 and the decline of her looks in their world of superficiality, and with herself feeling heavily her debt to him for approx. $7 millions in actual money and a part of her fame, and with no other person such as a child to live for (which tided over his other baby mamas Jerry Hall, Bianca Jagger and Marsha Hunt), her recent business failure on top of feeling she had no right to ask any more of him must have contributed to sending her over the edge.

Was it Mick's fault, per se? No. The choice of suicide most often rests solely with the person making that choice.

Was it her fault in the sense that she could easily have avoided letting this situation get so tangled? We will never know. Judging solely by the body language and facial expressions in their many photos with their arms tightly around one another, I think they loved each other a great deal more than either expected to, and had no place to put it without radical changes in their hearts and minds, which were not forthcoming in time enough.

[Albion Wilde]

To be egotistical enough to think you will/could change him is a recipe for guaranteed disappointment.

To your point, did she think that? Probably, given her background, she hoped for it and looked for signs, but if she had that kind of ego herself, might still be with us. I see it as a Gordian Knot. She was 35 when they got together. According to a story in the Brit press, they actually prepared a nursery in the apartment he bought for her and tried to have a child but it didn't happen.

She was 35 at the outset, but later, facing 50 and the decline of her looks in their world of superficiality, and with herself feeling heavily her debt to him for approx. $7 millions in actual money and a part of her fame, and with no other person such as a child to live for (which tided over his other baby mamas Jerry Hall, Bianca Jagger and Marsha Hunt), her recent business failure on top of feeling she had no right to ask any more of him must have contributed to sending her over the edge.

Was it Mick's fault, per se? No. The choice of suicide most often rests solely with the person making that choice.

Was it her fault in the sense that she could easily have avoided letting this situation get so tangled? We will never know. Judging solely by the body language and facial expressions in their many photos with their arms tightly around one another, I think they loved each other a great deal more than either expected to, and had no place to put it without radical changes in their hearts and minds, which were not forthcoming in time enough.

[Albion Wilde]

Nobody said anything about forbidding any songs. I "hoped", to quote me, if the man would have the discretion and respect to voluntarily avoid a song that, given his long career of songs, can simply be avoided on his upcoming tour. Having spent 40 years in marketing, I think like that. It's pro-Mick, not anti-male.

That song in particular mentions his lover's clothes. The lady was a clothing designer. Back away from that song, Mick.

[Albion Wilde]

I hope I forget that you attached this song to her suicide!

Let me unattach it then. He had no way of knowing what would happen almost 50 years after he recorded it.

Attachment is a strong word. I drew a parallel. Is hearing the song today in light of what happened a momentary indictment of the Sexual Revolution? Worth thinking about.

People wonder why I am saddened by this. I taught in an art college and saw many brilliantly talented young women go this path, and some did not survive it, either having tragic career failures or tragic love lives. Surviving in the arts is a lot harder than mommies and daddies think when they send their girls off to art school.

[Albion Wilde]

sorry for the double post

[onyx]

I think you're a sentimental and very sweet soul. I've been a Mick Jagger fan since their early beginning. I know about his history and I just like his music and actually pay little heed to the words in the Stones' songs. I still play only their CD's when I drive and I might add, I play them at top volume...lol. My favorite still remains ... Out of Time

[CaptainK]

My original point was that it was more likely her financial failure was the cause of her suicide rather than her relationship with Jagger.

[Albion Wilde]

Thanks for your kind words; but don't forget, making my living in marketing meant finding ways for words and images to create a response, then send the bill. I'm looking at his financial future as well as his emotional burden. Seems he hasn't been able to avoid being a Beast of Burden in the long run.

I've been a fan, but at a distance, since their raunchy edge always put me off a little. Came out of my first Stones concert at an Ivy League uni to see a bunch of preppy boys urinating in a circle on the public sidewalk. Just not my taste in male behavior, I guess. Ruined my beautiful shoes.

Favorites? It's would be this one for me:

She would never say where she came from
Yesterday don't matter if it's gone
While the sun is bright
Or in the darkest night
No one knows
She comes and goes

Goodbye, ruby tuesday
Who could hang a name on you?
When you change with every new day
Still Im gonna miss you...

Don't question why she needs to be so free
Shell tell you it's the only way to be
She just can't be chained
To a life where nothings gained
And nothings lost
At such a cost

There's no time to lose, I heard her say
Catch your dreams before they slip away
Dying all the time
Lose your dreams
And you will lose your mind.
Aint life unkind?

Goodbye, ruby tuesday
Who could hang a name on you?
When you change with every new day
Still Im gonna miss you...

[nothingnew]

Yeh, and Mickey J. caused Brian Jones to off himself...right?

FMCDH(BITS)

[TigersEye]

You’re the one doing all of the whining.

[Black Agnes]

I think the failure to have a child played into her suicide. I think the fashion line was sort of a replacement for the lack of a child. She started the line right around the time, agewise, when she would have realized that having a child would have been extremely unlikely.

I read that bit about the hopeful nursery as well. That would have guaranteed her a living for the rest of her life had she birthed his child. At 49 she’d have been having hot flashes good and hard probably. Every one a reminder of the failure to have had a child.

Still think he’s a chav. Not for his womanizing/swinging/bisexual behavior though. Just my opinion. Never did like him or any of their music. It’s a generational thing maybe. I don’t do geezer music.

[Albion Wilde]

Just can’t stay off of here, can you? Have you nothing better to do, since you denounced this discussion as a waste of your time?

[Albion Wilde]

Completely wrong.

[Albion Wilde]

My original point was that it was more likely her financial failure was the cause of her suicide rather than her relationship with Jagger.

Not arguing with you, but both played a part, as well as her background. It's rarely simple why an intelligent person kills, even themselves.

[TigersEye]

You post to me and I reply. You just don’t understand the concept of the forum do you? Still whining. I never said anything about it being a waste of time either.

[Albion Wilde]

His early life was not easy and he was very likely abused himself.

His Wikipedia "early life" entry contains no clue -- well-to-do parents even in the days just after WWII, private school, university (London School of Economics), sang in church choir as a kid. I've heard he even has Tory leanings because he is educated. To what abuse and hard life are you referring? I have never read any in-depth biographies, so I have no idea.

[Albion Wilde]

Have it your way, then. Stay on a thread you don’t like with a theme you don’t like and continue to denounce the person who mounted the thread, which is a vanity thread to begin with, requiring no great weight in the minds of anyone. Well done.

[Hugin]

Did Jagger or Richards speak out about the whole thing given their financial interest in the outcome?

They had NO financial interest in the outcome. Their former managers own all the rights to that song. Allen Klein owns the publishing rights. Andrew Oldham owns the performance rights since it was his orchestral version that was sampled. Do you really think the manager who screwed them out of their songs is going to give a damn what they say about it now? If anyone got shafted it's Mick and Keith who don't get royalties for anything they wrote before 1970.

[TigersEye]

I’m not reading this thread I’m responding to your posts to me. You sure are one big neurotic mess aren’t you?

[Albion Wilde]

La la la la la....