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Homeowner: 2 teens shot were 'vermin,' not human
Boston Herald ^ | April 23, 2014 | Associated Press

Posted on 04/24/2014 11:07:12 AM PDT by Uncle Chip

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. — A Minnesota man who killed two teenagers who broke into his home can be heard on an audio recording talking to himself for hours after the shooting and at one point, apparently describing the slain teens as "vermin."

Byron Smith, of Little Falls, faces first-degree premeditated murder charges in the deaths of 18-year-old Haile Kifer and 17-year-old Nick Brady on Thanksgiving Day in 2012. Smith, 65, claimed he was defending himself and feared for his life after several break-ins at his home.

Prosecutors, though, say Smith planned the killings. They say he sat in a chair in his basement and waited for the teens to enter his home, instead of calling police.

Smith waited a full day after he shot them before asking a neighbor to call the authorities....

The killings stunned this central Minnesota community and stirred debate about how far people can go to defend their homes. Under Minnesota law, a person may use deadly force to prevent a felony from taking place in one's home or dwelling, but authorities have said Smith crossed a line when he continued to shoot the teens after they were no longer a threat.

Authorities who searched Smith's home after the killings testified Wednesday that they found an audio recorder that was turned on and an operating video surveillance system. The recorder was sitting on top of books on a bookshelf, near a chair where prosecutors say Smith waited for the teens....

Prosecutors also showed images from surveillance cameras that Smith had set up outside his home. The four different camera angles showed Smith leaving his home in his truck at 11:25 a.m. on the day of the killings, then returning on foot at 11:45.

At 12:33 p.m., Brady shows up in a hooded, camouflage jacket ...

(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: byronsmith; chip; chosepoorly; cutting; dextromethorphan; dmx; goodriddance; haile; hero; littlefalls; marijuana; notahero; purpledrank; robotripping; skittles; trayvon; tussin
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The prosecution is presenting evidence that he set a trap for them and then lay in wait --
1 posted on 04/24/2014 11:07:12 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Which is what I would do as well if my house was broken into 4 times before.


2 posted on 04/24/2014 11:10:06 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Bundy ranch "Domestic terrorists" - Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan "work place violence".)
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To: Uncle Chip

Turn to a life of crime and stuff happens. End of story.


3 posted on 04/24/2014 11:10:27 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The best way to control opposition is to lead it ourselves." -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin)
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To: Uncle Chip

after they were no longer a threat. —

I’ve seen enough ‘80s movies where the bad guy comes back to life...more than once, even.

Hollywood is right, got to make sure.


4 posted on 04/24/2014 11:12:37 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (You can count my felonies by looking at my FR replies.)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

But without a running tape recorder...


5 posted on 04/24/2014 11:13:56 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: Scrambler Bob

Not only they come back but they are the ones laying in wait and scopping properties. Where were the cops? This guy solved a crime but the prosecution does not care.


6 posted on 04/24/2014 11:14:30 AM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: Uncle Chip
Smith crossed a line when he continued to shoot the teens after they were no longer a threat.

So, he acted like an LEO.
7 posted on 04/24/2014 11:15:37 AM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Note to self: never say anything incriminating on tape.


8 posted on 04/24/2014 11:15:45 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: Uncle Chip

My Father did this after 3 break-ins at our pharmacy. He sat in a chair in the dark and waited night after night, thankfully, I finally convinced him to get a taser instead of taking his gun. In the end, after a night there was an attempted break-in when he was not there, the police set up a trap the following night and got the would be burglar. Guess what? No conviction... Probation, no jail time, and no repayment of damages to our business. And this is going on with the police station in the same building literally 3 doors down, less than 25 yards away, from our business. Drugs were the reason, and addiction. But can you imagine the idiocy?


9 posted on 04/24/2014 11:17:01 AM PDT by CBF ('Behind every blade of grass.')
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To: grobdriver
"But without a running tape recorder..."

As he now realizes, it was a big no-no.

10 posted on 04/24/2014 11:17:55 AM PDT by Carl Vehse
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To: Uncle Chip

Moral of the story: don’t break into other people’s houses and just maybe you won’t be shot. It’s not exactly rocket science.


11 posted on 04/24/2014 11:18:09 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: Carl Vehse

I think he did it to prove he didn’t shoot them on the street, I think he also had a video tape, but yeah he should have kept him mouth shut. What he should have said was he set up the video and tape recorder to try and catch them and they broke in one night and chased him down to the basement and he was in fear of his life.


12 posted on 04/24/2014 11:22:12 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Bundy ranch "Domestic terrorists" - Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan "work place violence".)
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To: Uncle Chip

Yes, he should have called the police before the break in occurred so they could tell him there was nothing they could do about it.

He also should have asked the suspects if they wanted him to stop shooting at them. They could have discussed this with him at the kitchen table over coffee.


13 posted on 04/24/2014 11:22:15 AM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Uncle Chip

He may have set a trap for them but THEY entered HIS house for the sole purpose of robbing it..game..set..match..you do the crime, you pay the price


14 posted on 04/24/2014 11:22:46 AM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: Uncle Chip
Smith is a stone cold psychopath.

If an unarmed teenage girl broke into my house to rip me off, I would be pretty angry.

But, being a normal human being I wouldn't shoot her.

Nor would I shoot her and then put her on a tarp rather than call 911.

Nor would I shoot her, put her on a tarp, not call 911, and then shoot her two more times.

Nor would I shoot her, put her on a tarp, not call 911, shoot her two more times, and then leave the room to find another weapon so I could shoot her point blank under the chin.

Nor would I shoot her, put her on a tarp, not call 911, shoot her two more times, leave the room to find another weapon so I could shoot her point blank under the chin, and then wrap up the tarp,eat dinner and watch TV.

Byron Smith is the subhuman one in this story.

15 posted on 04/24/2014 11:25:59 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Sarah Barracuda

How is it a trap to sit in your own house? When I watch tv my item is within grasp, in the kitchen one is close by, when I sleep it is under a pillow.


16 posted on 04/24/2014 11:26:37 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: wideawake

Sounds like he had a bit of a breakdown after the first shooting.


17 posted on 04/24/2014 11:27:42 AM PDT by tioga
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To: Uncle Chip

He was in his house. The perps broke in. He didn’t pursue them in the house, but waited in his basement. They went to where he was, one of them dumb enough to go down there after the first one had been shot. Now they are dead. Justice has been served. Leave it at that.


18 posted on 04/24/2014 11:28:50 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Resolute Conservative

He knew scumbags were going to try to break in..he had everything ready to go to prove he was being robbed..maybe a “trap” is the wrong word to use here, but he was preparing for this..the two idiots who intended to rob his house got what was coming to them


19 posted on 04/24/2014 11:29:43 AM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: Scrambler Bob

He should have shouted, “IT’S COMING RIGHT FOR US!”


20 posted on 04/24/2014 11:30:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: wideawake

It seems obvious, but, you know, we have such a respect for Life and Christian values around here, I don’t think your point is going to get through.


21 posted on 04/24/2014 11:31:28 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Uncle Chip

And the problem with that is?

Cute kids, sad story.

The home owner is correct.


22 posted on 04/24/2014 11:34:02 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: Uncle Chip

So the police had several opportunities to catch the thugs breaking into this man’s house and they failed to do so?


23 posted on 04/24/2014 11:34:21 AM PDT by grania
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To: wideawake
Smith is a stone cold psychopath.

He certainly is.

24 posted on 04/24/2014 11:34:45 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
No force or coercion was used to get the two to break into, and enter the house.

These two are dead because of their own willful criminal acts.

No break and enter, no dead.

25 posted on 04/24/2014 11:34:54 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: wideawake

I guess it would have been better if he had just shot her 100 times to begin with like a cop would have.


26 posted on 04/24/2014 11:35:16 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Did he force them to break into his home?


27 posted on 04/24/2014 11:35:30 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Sarah Barracuda
the two idiots who intended to rob his house got what was coming to them

The penalty for home burglary is 10 years incarceration not death by psychopath.

28 posted on 04/24/2014 11:37:18 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: wideawake

I have no problem with someone shooting a person who has broken into their house.

But what you describe goes well beyond the definition of excessive. If you shoot someone in defense of yourself and your property, it needs to stop at the point where the threat has been eliminated. This guy basically “bounced the rubble”, and if the girl was still alive when that last shot was taken it goes from “self-defense” clear past “murder” and right into “execution”


29 posted on 04/24/2014 11:37:41 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: TexasFreeper2009

I don’t carry that much ammo, idiot.


30 posted on 04/24/2014 11:39:45 AM PDT by Glennb51
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To: CBF

“My Father did this after 3 break-ins at our pharmacy. He sat in a chair in the dark and waited night after night, thankfully, I finally convinced him to get a taser instead of taking his gun. In the end, after a night there was an attempted break-in when he was not there, the police set up a trap the following night and got the would be burglar. Guess what? No conviction... Probation, no jail time, and no repayment of damages to our business. And this is going on with the police station in the same building literally 3 doors down, less than 25 yards away, from our business. Drugs were the reason, and addiction. But can you imagine the idiocy?”

Years ago I had my medical offices broken into twice within a month. Unbelievably they caught the guy(a druggie/alcoholic) who happened to drop a copy of his probation report( yes, you read it correctly) outside my office with the FIRST break-in. This was his third offense and he stole Rx pads and the local Cleveland DA said mandatory jail time if I was willing to testify. I was very willing to testify. Six months after trial was supposed to start, no call from DA. I call him, he is too busy and his secretary says he got PROBATION. Tried to call the DA back and never got a response.

About one year later watching TV about a horrible story where an elderly lady coming out of a grocery store was knocked down in a robbery and after two weeks in coma has died due to her injuries.

You guessed it, it was my druggie burglar that was supposed to be doing mandatory jail time.


31 posted on 04/24/2014 11:44:06 AM PDT by Cyman (We have to pass it to see what's in it= definition of stool sample)
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To: Jack Hammer

The penalty for breaking into a house is not death — especially when the homeowner has moved his car to make it appear that he was not home, is watching them on video, has a phone next to him with which to call the police, and after disabling them with one shot continues to shoot them because they are “vermin” and he wants to put them out of their misery, rather than calling an ambulance and the police.

And this is a retired State Department security officer.


32 posted on 04/24/2014 11:44:08 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: andyk

Maybe I’m a LEO, but I ain’t a lion.


33 posted on 04/24/2014 11:44:19 AM PDT by trillabodilla (For I am the LORD, I change not; Malachi 3:6a)
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To: Uncle Chip

“And this is a retired State Department...”

THAT explains a lot.


34 posted on 04/24/2014 11:45:58 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Glennb51
I was thinking specifically on this incident

http://rt.com/usa/lapd-dorner-shooting-review-738/

35 posted on 04/24/2014 11:47:02 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: All

Every bad thing that happened that night was a direct result of the bad choices made by the perps...period.


36 posted on 04/24/2014 11:47:10 AM PDT by Maverick68
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To: Jack Hammer

Yeah that’s rich! Prosecutor treating the deceased vermin as victims—and the victim like a criminal.

But hey, that’s how it is in Amerika now.


37 posted on 04/24/2014 11:48:26 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: tanknetter
Indeed. There are other details as well.

He parked his truck several blocks away and turned off all of his lights, so anyone would think that he wasn't at home.

He hid downstairs in his basement, with a chair set up between two bookshelves, so he could lie in wait, out of sight of anyone who opened the basement door.

He stocked the space between the bookshelves with bottled water and powerbars so he could stay there for hours.

He purchased several tarps so he could wrap up the bodies.

He could not wait for his house to be broken into and went out of his way to present a tempting target.

Not one thing he did was in the heat of the moment.

It was all carefully planned out.

He claims that he waited more than a day to contact the police because he didn't want to bother them.

I think he was enjoying his trophies before he had to get rid of them.

38 posted on 04/24/2014 11:52:34 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Uncle Chip

Sounds like a good plan to me.


39 posted on 04/24/2014 11:53:45 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Uncle Chip

Here is the actual law.

**************

2013 Minnesota Statutes

609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.

The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor’s place of abode.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065

*****************

Here is the actual law.

I am all in favor of good shoots on violent or threatening criminal offenders. The original take down shots are defensible. The subsequent executions were not.

I can see some situations were they would be. Anarchy. War. Remote isolation coupled with other imminent threats. Gangs with backup.

This was a Minnesota suburb.

Manslaughter or diminished capacity is all this guy has got.


40 posted on 04/24/2014 11:53:53 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Maverick68
Every bad thing that happened that night was a direct result of the bad choices made by the perps...period.

Byron Smith made many decisions that night as well.

And he will spend the rest of his life in a cell thinking about those decisions.

One thing is true: if you break into someone's house you have no way of knowing whether that someone is a normal human being or a sadistic maniac. You are asking for trouble.

41 posted on 04/24/2014 11:55:20 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Exo 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

He might have waited for them to break in his house but he did not know they would or when and if they would be armed. The adrenaline would have a powerful effect on a 65 year old man. I don’t think it was 1rst degree murder.


42 posted on 04/24/2014 11:55:32 AM PDT by the_daug
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To: Uncle Chip
And this is a retired State Department security officer.

This is the only "JBT" the "JBT" obsessives around here like.

He's their "JBT."

43 posted on 04/24/2014 11:58:42 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Uncle Chip

This news story doesn’t tell the *whole* story. I read a transcript yesterday of the tape that was running while this guy actually killed the would-be burglars. It is very apparent that he lay in wait for them, killed the first one deliberately, with no warning, then when the girl came in, also killed her with no warning. He shot them seveeral times to make sure they were dead, after they were on the floor and apparently (judging by his own tape) absolutely no threat. He dragged them around on tarps to keep them from staining his carpeting. Then he waited a whole day to report it.

This is NOT a case of a homeowner in fear of his life. This is a case of revenge (and also incredible stupidity, for taping the whole thing, but I for one am glad he did). He murdered two people (low-lifes, perhaps, but he murdered them). To defend this man’s actions makes all *responsible* gun-owners look bad.


44 posted on 04/24/2014 12:01:45 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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To: the_daug
He might have waited for them to break in his house but he did not know they would or when and if they would be armed.

He had them on CCTV.

He watched them on video walking around his home.

He could see they were unarmed.

I don’t think it was 1rst degree murder.

He had an unarmed teenage girl bleeding out on his floor. Rather than call 911, he took the time to put her in a tarp, then went to another room and then leaned in close, called her a "b!tch" and fired a single shot at point blank range into her head.

If that is not murder in the first degree, then there is no such thing as murder in the first degree.

45 posted on 04/24/2014 12:02:02 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: headstamp 2
He shot the vermin on Thanksgiving. He said that he waited one day, so he wouldn't ruin the officers, BCA et al holiday.
46 posted on 04/24/2014 12:02:41 PM PDT by BarbM (Portuguese Dog--Kenyan president)
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To: headstamp 2
He shot the vermin on Thanksgiving. He said that he waited one day, so he wouldn't ruin the officers, BCA et al holiday.
47 posted on 04/24/2014 12:02:41 PM PDT by BarbM (Portuguese Dog--Kenyan president)
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To: grania
So the police had several opportunities to catch the thugs breaking into this man’s house and they failed to do so?

It appears from other reports that he only called the police regarding one break-in.

48 posted on 04/24/2014 12:02:50 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Should have used a 12 gauge .

One well placed shot would have ended it pronto.

He broke the law(as it is written in Minnesota statute)

That said, I’m not losing any sleep over dead robbers and Mr. Smith goes to prison.

But I doubt Smith is/was a threat to anyone on Earth other than people sneaking into his house or he’d probably killed other people before making it to age 65.


49 posted on 04/24/2014 12:03:10 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.-JFK)
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To: Uncle Chip

The threshold - legal and moral - is self-defense.

However, as everyone knows, LEOs regularly fill people with holes on self-defense arguments no other person but a LEO could even remotely get away with.

And I have always believed that non-LEOs should be given more leeway in “going too far” because of the fact that they are not trained in wartime threat from firearms, and so can easily have an emotional reaction that is excessively violent, paranoid or lethal, because of the condition the PERP put them in by threatening them. This is solely the perp’s fault.

But... when you have someone acting as cold-blooded and methodical as this guy did, the uttermost limits of even that emotional trauma argument are stretched to the breaking point.

The bottom line is that the guy - pay attention here - has every right to be a nasty, unbalanced, vindictive asshole in his own home, hurting no one. If someone chooses to repeatedly break in and terrorize someone that unstable, I don’t think he has any responsibility to become a psychologically balanced person before he takes care of the threat to his life (as he perceives it).

On the other hand, the law cannot allow people to look at visitors and say “I feel threatened by you” and blow them away for fun or psychosis reasons either. And while these two were certainly not mere visitors, and certainly were not invited, playing with the line of how far someone can go on their own property is beyond important.

So I’d say that what looks like an easy case in either direction (depending on your preference), is not, actually, so easy after all.


50 posted on 04/24/2014 12:03:27 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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