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New Theory Suggests The Universe Shouldn't Even Exist
Business Insider ^ | 06/24/2014 | TIA GHOSE, LIVESCIENCE

Posted on 06/24/2014 2:21:50 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

The universe shouldn't exist — at least according to a new theory.

Modeling of conditions soon after the Big Bang suggests the universe should have collapsed just microseconds after its explosive birth, the new study suggests.

"During the early universe, we expected cosmic inflation — this is a rapid expansion of the universe right after the Big Bang," said study co-author Robert Hogan, a doctoral candidate in physics at King's College in London. "This expansion causes lots of stuff to shake around, and if we shake it too much, we could go into this new energy space, which could cause the universe to collapse."

Physicists draw that conclusion from a model that accounts for the properties of the newly discovered Higgs boson particle, which is thought to explain how other particles get their mass; faint traces of gravitational waves formed at the universe's origin also inform the conclusion. [Doomsday: The 9 Real Ways Earth Could End]

Of course, there must be something missing from these calculations.

"We are here talking about it," Hogan told Live Science. "That means we have to extend our theories to explain why this didn't happen."

So if the universe shouldn't exist, why is it here?

"The generic expectation is that there must be some new physics that we haven't put in our theories yet, because we haven't been able to discover them," Hogan said.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: creation; existence; theory; universe
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1 posted on 06/24/2014 2:21:50 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Sounds like the “New” Theory has some issues...


2 posted on 06/24/2014 2:23:47 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: SeekAndFind

Like Global Warming. Maybe your model is wrong?


3 posted on 06/24/2014 2:24:08 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy (The Obamanation Continues)
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To: SeekAndFind; GeronL

Last week scientists said genders don’t really exist. Now the universe shouldn’t exist.

No wonder man is responsible for killing the planet with global warming!


4 posted on 06/24/2014 2:24:40 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: SeekAndFind
Well of COURSE not, dummie !

If the nucleus of an atom is essentially a positive charge and the circling electrons are negative .... only the finger of GOD keeps the thing from imploding

I figured THAT out in 7th grade.

5 posted on 06/24/2014 2:25:40 PM PDT by knarf (brooklyn bridge)
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To: a fool in paradise

RE: Last week scientists said genders don’t really exist.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/american-medical-association-says-gender-is-imaginary/

The AMA said that.

Are members of the AMA scientists?


6 posted on 06/24/2014 2:26:04 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

“The generic expectation is that there must be some new physics that we haven’t put in our theories yet, because we haven’t been able to discover them,” Hogan said.


See? This is how a real scientist talks. He is not afraid to admit there are things scientists just don’t know, or that theories, even ones that are well established, can have holes in them.

That’s the difference between a scientist and a believer in scientism.


7 posted on 06/24/2014 2:26:06 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, then I guess it doesn’t. We’re supposed to accept theories as “settled science,” right?


8 posted on 06/24/2014 2:26:08 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I had another dream about the lions at the door. Told 'em not to science those burgers too hard.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think it was in the early 1950s that aerospace engineers concluded that the bumble bee could, indeed, fly. One of the major helicopter improvements came from the aeronautical science which supported this conclusion.


9 posted on 06/24/2014 2:26:09 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Medical doctors aren’t scientists?

Or does being a scientist imply RESEARCH science?


10 posted on 06/24/2014 2:27:09 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: SeekAndFind

God is real, and His creations are real, so I trust scientists will get this little matter figured out, and if they don’t, no big deal. We’ll still be here to debate it.


11 posted on 06/24/2014 2:28:51 PM PDT by pallis
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To: a fool in paradise

A scientist, in a broad sense, is one engaging in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge. In a more restricted sense, a scientist may refer to an individual who uses the scientific method.

Not sure if members of the AMA are doing that today.

Not even sure if the AMA’s pronouncements speak for every member.


12 posted on 06/24/2014 2:29:20 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
"A whole lot a' shakin' goin' on"...Jerry Lee Lewis
13 posted on 06/24/2014 2:30:32 PM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: knarf

“If the nucleus of an atom is essentially a positive charge and the circling electrons are negative .... only the finger of GOD keeps the thing from imploding”

Well, positive and negative electrical charges do not obliterate each other, like matter and antimatter do. They simply strive to achieve equilibrium of charges, which you have in a stable atom. What keeps them from continuing to attract each other until the particles actually collide is probably just the kinetic energy of the electrons. They can’t slow down to come into contact with the nucleus, so the closest they can achieve is a close, stable orbit.


14 posted on 06/24/2014 2:32:26 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: pallis

The Universe exists because “I AM” ....


15 posted on 06/24/2014 2:32:27 PM PDT by mikrofon (Science BUMP)
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To: SeekAndFind

You don’t know what you don’t know!


16 posted on 06/24/2014 2:32:39 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: SeekAndFind

“That means we have to extend our theories to explain why this didn’t happen.”

Here’s an idea

G O D


17 posted on 06/24/2014 2:32:55 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: SeekAndFind

Fair enough, but the AMA (as the APA before them) make “scientific” declarative statements.

Even the “science” behind global warming scares don’t pass peer review.


18 posted on 06/24/2014 2:33:55 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: SeekAndFind
The theory could be correct, if we are very small and live very fast so that the tiny universe looks huge and those microseconds seems as billions of years to us.

19 posted on 06/24/2014 2:34:29 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: TexasCajun

RE: You don’t know what you don’t know!

Yep, and I also know what I don’t know.


20 posted on 06/24/2014 2:35:14 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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“The universe shouldn’t exist — at least according to a new theory.”

Then neither should the theory.


21 posted on 06/24/2014 2:35:56 PM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Do you know who you are?
You are what you is.
You ain’t what you not,
And that all there is.

-Frank Zappa


22 posted on 06/24/2014 2:41:45 PM PDT by Mr. K (Palin/Cruz 2016)
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To: Boogieman

OK ... GOD keeps the dervishes whirling


23 posted on 06/24/2014 2:42:03 PM PDT by knarf (brooklyn bridge)
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To: Bubba_Leroy
I was thinking the same thing, except I'd put it this way:

Like Global Warming - so since the computer model trumps observable data, then we must conclude that we really do NOT exist, and that all of our perceptions of reality is simply a delusion created by whatever forms of matter and energy are now trapped in the event horizon of the super-massive black hole that formed after the Big Bang when our universe collapsed.

Oh well, I suppose this message I'm sending is also part of that delusion then!
24 posted on 06/24/2014 2:43:57 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: SeekAndFind

It will disappear when I wake up.


25 posted on 06/24/2014 2:44:02 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (AGW "Scientific method:" Draw your lines first, then plot your points)
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To: Paladin2

The science is settled. The universe doesn’t exist.


26 posted on 06/24/2014 2:51:21 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Epicycles, after epicycles, after epicycles, etc...


27 posted on 06/24/2014 2:55:00 PM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: a fool in paradise

Remember the professor in ATLAS SHRUGS that determined that nothing was real?


28 posted on 06/24/2014 2:56:10 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: SeekAndFind
New Theory Suggests The Universe Shouldn't Even Exist

Actually it doesn't and we've all been laughing at you for some time...

29 posted on 06/24/2014 2:56:48 PM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: SeekAndFind

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.


30 posted on 06/24/2014 2:59:59 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind

31 posted on 06/24/2014 3:00:22 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind

You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here
Deteriorata. Deteriorata

Go placidly amid the noise and waste
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep
Rotate your tires
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys
Know what to kiss, and when
Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do
Wherever possible, put people on hold
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time
There is always a big future in computer maintenance

You are a fluke of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back

Remember The Pueblo
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate
Know yourself
If you need help, call the FBI
Exercise caution in your daily affairs
Especially with those persons closest to you -
That lemon on your left, for instance
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet
Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face
Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch
Hire people with hooks
For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken
Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot
It could only be worse in Milwaukee

You are a fluke of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back

Therefore, make peace with your god
Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal
The world continues to deteriorate
Give up!

You are a fluke of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back

You are a fluke of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back


32 posted on 06/24/2014 3:01:22 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind; All

Scientists evidently haven’t found the “God particle” after all. Galatians 6:7 comes to mind.


33 posted on 06/24/2014 3:01:29 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: dfwgator

Doug Adams.... My brother read my copies of his books and came out of the house and asked, “What was that guy taking when he wrote that?” LOL


34 posted on 06/24/2014 3:02:10 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind

They don’t know. They merely revise evolving speculations.


35 posted on 06/24/2014 3:04:30 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: Boogieman
But a circling charged object would emit radiation and lose energy. Over time its orbit would get smaller and smaller. Eventually it would crash into the nucleus.

But electrons don't, and so we have quantum mechanics, i.e. have a set of mathematical equations that predict exactly what electrons will do, in some case exactly and in other cases probabilistically, but we still don't really know why the electron doesn't collapse into the nucleus.

The QM explanation is that electrons can only lose quantized amounts of energy, i.e. they can't just slowly run down. So the electron stays in orbit until something happens such that it can gain a quanta of energy and get thrown out of orbit, or into a higher orbit, or lose a quanta of energy and go into a lower orbit.

Of course in QM electrons don't necessarily exist at one point in space and so don't really orbit nuclei in the same way that planets orbit the sun.

So, yes we have the math to predict what will happen, but we still have no idea why what happens actually does.

36 posted on 06/24/2014 3:06:14 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Viennacon

Iif every time a scientist pondered a gap in our knowledge they merely filled it with G O D, we really wouldn’t get very far would we?


37 posted on 06/24/2014 3:34:30 PM PDT by Natufian (t)
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To: dfwgator
And despite the changing fortunes of time
There is always a big future in computer maintenance...

Remember The Pueblo
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate...

Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan

Oh, that sounds so 1971!

38 posted on 06/24/2014 3:35:07 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: SeekAndFind

I’ve been saying this for years.


39 posted on 06/24/2014 3:36:53 PM PDT by kaehurowing (FIGHT BULLYING, UNINSTALL FIREFOX)
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To: SeekAndFind
Reminds me of the old joke about the two French philosophy students arguing in an animated manner in a coffee shop not far from the Eiffel Tower. Finally, one says to the other:

"OK...yes...it does actually work. But: will it work in theory?"

40 posted on 06/24/2014 3:38:10 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: BitWielder1

Aha, it just hasn’t started collapsing yet,
but give Obama time...


41 posted on 06/24/2014 3:41:39 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Pharmboy
Yep.

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not." Yogi Berra

42 posted on 06/24/2014 3:42:37 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: SeekAndFind
if we shake it too much, we could go into this new energy space, which could cause the universe to collapse."

Okay everybody....be very, very still.

43 posted on 06/24/2014 3:51:27 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: Billthedrill

Ha! Great...I had never seen that one.


44 posted on 06/24/2014 4:10:55 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

“But a circling charged object would emit radiation and lose energy. Over time its orbit would get smaller and smaller. Eventually it would crash into the nucleus.”

I think the key, as you said, is that the electron really isn’t “orbiting” the nucleus, in the classical sense. We just think about it that way because it’s easier for us to conceive than what is really going on. The electrons form standing waves, so they are oscillating in place, rather than moving through the field, so there is no induction. I think what we see as the electron’s position is just the most prominent node of the wave at that particular time.

The particles in the nucleus are standing waves also, and this is the reason that we see quantization, because waves can only form stable arrangements with each other based on the laws of harmonics, so you end up with only rational values being feasible.


45 posted on 06/24/2014 4:15:46 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: dfwgator

“Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do”

I think that should be “two wrongs never make a right, but three lefts do”.


46 posted on 06/24/2014 4:22:57 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Mr. K

Ok, but is you is or is you ain’t my baby?


47 posted on 06/24/2014 4:26:53 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: SeekAndFind

the universe should have collapsed just microseconds after its explosive birth, the new study suggests.


Time is relative to the observer.


48 posted on 06/24/2014 4:37:28 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Boogieman
There was a fellow in Texas that came up with a theory that the electron was actually a toroidal sheet of charge surrounding the nuclei. According to his calculations the toroidal charge sheet could rotate without emitting radiation and so could remain in a stable orbit.

I haven't kept up to see if this is still a going theory. It would be interesting if it turned out he was right, but that physicists resisted his theory because the math would be too difficult to work with. After all, points are easier to model than toroidal sheets.

49 posted on 06/24/2014 4:52:25 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: SeekAndFind
So if the universe shouldn't exist, why is it here?

God.

50 posted on 06/24/2014 5:11:14 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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