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Rant on tipping
Me | July 6 2014 | Me

Posted on 07/06/2014 2:10:26 PM PDT by Ben Mugged

OK, here is my rant about tipping. Not the kind where folks in Frisco are standing little cars on end or the practice of pushing sleeping cows over but the kind that takes place in restaurants.

I worked in food service and as a bartender for many years while in the Air Force. When I started out the business would pay me to serve the customers. If my service was good, the customers would reward me with a gratuity. Over time the businesses noticed their servers were making a lot of money in tips so they reduced their pay to minimum wage. The difference between that and what you should have been paid was made up by tipping. In other words the burden of paying the server moved from the business to the customer. Instead of working for the business, servers were now working for the customer.

It is still that way today with some businesses adding the "gratuity" to the bill automatically. Folks it is no longer a "gratuity" if it is mandatory and the only way the server gets paid. Let's call it what it is, a service fee.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: gratuity; tip
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This has gotten way out of hand. Some businesses are adding 18 to 25% of the meal cost as service wages.
1 posted on 07/06/2014 2:10:26 PM PDT by Ben Mugged
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To: Ben Mugged

What about cow tipping? Should we tip cows, too?


2 posted on 07/06/2014 2:10:58 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Ben Mugged

It makes quality of service kind of meaningless when the staff doesn’t have to sell themselves or the restaurant.


3 posted on 07/06/2014 2:13:29 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Ben Mugged

Businesses can charge however they like. You can choose to dine elsewhere.


4 posted on 07/06/2014 2:13:31 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Ben Mugged

Over time the businesses noticed their servers were making a lot of money in tips so they reduced their pay to minimum wage. The difference between that and what you should have been paid was made up by tipping.


I don’t know of any servers making minimum wage. Right now most servers make $2.13 per hour unless they’re in one of the states with different rules as shown here:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm


5 posted on 07/06/2014 2:13:59 PM PDT by leapfrog0202 ("the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of personal discovery" Sarah Palin)
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To: Ben Mugged

Interestingly, there is no requirement to pay it. They may add it, but courts have routinely held you do not have to pay it.


6 posted on 07/06/2014 2:15:54 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Ben Mugged

Problem is that so few (and mainly minorities) tip anymore.

I see on checks now....”minimum tip suggested”.


7 posted on 07/06/2014 2:17:04 PM PDT by DisorderOnBorder (Haley Barbour gave me $15 to vote)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

8 posted on 07/06/2014 2:17:09 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: leapfrog0202

I stand corrected. I have not worked in food service for over 30 years so I can only presume the rules have changed, and not for the better. My current experience is from the other side of the table.


9 posted on 07/06/2014 2:17:37 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (The number one enemy of liberalism is reality.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Must be a city boy.


10 posted on 07/06/2014 2:18:12 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (The number one enemy of liberalism is reality.)
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To: Larry Lucido

In or area on the California central coast the only restaurants that don’t charge “service fees” are fast food and I don’t patronize them.


11 posted on 07/06/2014 2:20:15 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (The number one enemy of liberalism is reality.)
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To: Ben Mugged
I have no issue with restaurants making servers pay them to work there, if the reward is enough (in tips) to support it.

Its free enterprise.

My standard practice is $1 per person at buffets where the wait staff does very little for me, but still do provide something. I always presume that buffets are paying their staff more. For real sit-down table service, I leave 20% for good service, more if its spectacular service. I won't leave less than 15% unless the wait staff did something to really make my day much worse, and then I'll usually leave next to nothing.

I generally detest counter tip jars, where no personal service is delivered, beyond making my food and handing it to me over the counter.

12 posted on 07/06/2014 2:20:28 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Ben Mugged

I like the idea of a living wage for the server and a 5% tip max if the service was great.


13 posted on 07/06/2014 2:20:29 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: Ben Mugged

anything more then 15% is interesting... as that’s the amount they are taxed on

sounds like they need an audit to insure their books are in order

of course, you could just remove yourself from the problem and get out of the people’s republic of califorinia. let the freaks have it. the next step is to insure the fedgov doesn’t cover their socialistic bs using our tax money


14 posted on 07/06/2014 2:24:59 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Larry Lucido

But some businesses hide the fact of adding a gratuity so you order, eat, and here comes the bill with an added 18% for service. And then a place to add a tip.


15 posted on 07/06/2014 2:25:38 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: Ben Mugged

The entire F and B industry has totally changed since you were involved. There are more restaurants, and more and more expensive restaurants, where indeed good servers can make a thousand a week in tips, a lot of which is cash.

In a way, it’s a great training ground for entrepreneurs, because in a way, servers work for themselves. They are almost like brokers. They have their customers and they have the provider - they are the conduit. If they are good, they make good money.

If they are real good, they get to work in a more expensive place - ie - a place where they’ll make more money. They work their way up like a farm system in baseball almost.

In addition, waiters/waitresses “tip out” to the bartender, the sushi chefs, etc - again, part of the business chain.

Now, 20-25% tip should be only reserved for outstanding service and great food (yes, I know, not the servers fault, but not the customers fault either). But the system is great training for the free enterprise system.


16 posted on 07/06/2014 2:26:27 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: Ben Mugged

Bartender in college here. I get it too. Nowadays, you have to explicitly ask the resto’ of they include the tip. When we go out, we ask the place first if they do that or look at Yelp. IF in case, we all go hungry and just want to eat out impromptu, you do the same thing. But it’s not the dealbreaker. If the service and good are great, we don’t mind as the objective is to eat. No one really thinks of “oh man, I;m hungry but damn, they include the tip immediately in the bill”.


17 posted on 07/06/2014 2:26:49 PM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company last election, and I laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: Cry if I Wanna

Good liberal you are! Spread the wealth!

In France, in fine dining, there is no wage for waiters, they compete for the jobs, where fine service is generously rewarded.

Your ‘living wage’ dream is about to become real in Seattle, I hope you’ll be around to analyze the labor/wage consequences of $15 minimum wage.


18 posted on 07/06/2014 2:28:27 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: Ben Mugged
It is still that way today with some businesses adding the "gratuity" to the bill automatically. Folks it is no longer a "gratuity" if it is mandatory and the only way the server gets paid. Let's call it what it is, a service fee.

If the business (restaurant, etc..) is automatically adding the "tip" no matter the size of the party, then yes it is a SERVICE FEE.

I'll also say this: I'm typically a very good tipper. I remember starting out my working life bussing tables and working the kitchen which meant tip sharing with the wait staff. I know how hard really good restaurant people work to make dining out a pleasant experience. I can only recall one time in the last 30'ish years that the wife and I have been together where the service we received at a restaurant was exceptionally bad. Even then, I knew if I left $0 for the wait staff, I was also leaving nothing for the food prep staff, buss staff, etc.. and I didn't want to do that.

So I found the restaurant manager, handed him the %15 tip and asked that it be given to the kitchen and other staff as the wait staff we had really neglected our table (other wait staff had taken up her slack.)

An "average" waiter/waitress will always get 15-20% from me. Keep my ice tea or coffee filled and don't pester me more than twice during the meal if we need anything is all I ask.

Really good wait staff will get 25% of more easily. There have been times I've left 50% when the meal was really good and the wait staff service was awesome.

Holiday's (Christmas, New Years Day, Mothers Day specifically) are really hard days for restaurant staff. They really want to be home with their families but let's be realistic: alot of them really need the money and tips from that day and they're counting on good tips for their service. I remember those days and I really appreciated the good tips on those days so I pay that forward. If you're my family's wait staff on a holiday and you provide good service you can count on an excellent tip. (When I say "excellent" typically in excess of the tab itself.)

19 posted on 07/06/2014 2:29:49 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Cry if I Wanna
I like the idea of a living wage for the server and a 5% tip max if the service was great.

I like the idea of you never ever having anything to do with any law or public policy EVER!!!!!!!

20 posted on 07/06/2014 2:30:30 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: SampleMan
For me, I usually tip a fixed amount rather than a percentage of the bill at breakfast restaurants. The wait staff works just as hard, but the eggs and toast meals are so much cheaper than filet and sirloin dinner restaurant meals.

-PJ

21 posted on 07/06/2014 2:30:53 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Ben Mugged

Personally, if there is a service fee on the bill, I complain. Get it removed, then give the cash direct to the server.

I ain’t going to stiff someone who has made a meal a pleasure (or tolerable). But I’m not going to play the restaurant game where people have to wait for months for a well earned tip either. They get cash up front.


22 posted on 07/06/2014 2:33:13 PM PDT by EC1
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To: txhurl

Cry if I Wanna
Since Jun 13, 2014

view home page, enter name:

~ About ~ Links ~ Contact ~ In Forum ~ Mail To ~
Return
Cry if I Wanna hasn’t created an about page.


23 posted on 07/06/2014 2:35:21 PM PDT by bramps (Go West America!)
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To: Ben Mugged; All
Restaurants should never have placed wage-earning servers at the mercy of the customers. Since everybody has different ideas about what such services are worth, it's a crude approach to justifying lower menu prices imo.
FR: This Kentucky Restaurant’s New ‘No Tipping’ Policy is Genius

24 posted on 07/06/2014 2:37:35 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I like the idea of you never ever having anything to do with any law or public policy EVER!!!!!!!

I am a county administrative judge and I do just fine upholding the constitution and the laws of my state.

25 posted on 07/06/2014 2:45:11 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: bramps

Is there some bill before the house that includes tipping legislation?


26 posted on 07/06/2014 2:45:13 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: Ben Mugged

27 posted on 07/06/2014 2:45:53 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Cry if I Wanna

I am a county administrative judge and I do just fine upholding the constitution and the laws of my state.


I am an Egyptian dung-rolling beetle and you are smelling GREAT.


28 posted on 07/06/2014 2:47:50 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: txhurl
Your ‘living wage’ dream is about to become real in Seattle, I hope you’ll be around to analyze the labor/wage consequences of $15 minimum wage.

You misunderstood. By living wage I mean that waiters would be paid what the job is worth - let the market set that wage/value just as it does for all other jobs. My assumption would be that the pay would be competitive, especially for someone with a solid resume.

29 posted on 07/06/2014 2:48:28 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Friend’s daughter is a server at Cafe Boulud on Palm Beach. She can make $500/night on a good night in the season.

I’ve seen it from the golf perspective where clubs went to a no-tipping policy (with much higher hourly wages) in order to not have members one-upping each other. What results is overall good service in most cases, but gone is the exceptional service.

It also creates clock milkers. In the day, you hustled, made your tips, cleaned the place up, and got the hell out of there. Now everyone is on island time, which I don’t consider a good result.


30 posted on 07/06/2014 2:50:17 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: Ben Mugged

When I go to a restaurant I expect to pay. The way I see it... If I’m worried about a service fee on my bill, then I should not be eating out.

Moreover, when I tip I always start at 20% and work my way down.


31 posted on 07/06/2014 2:50:48 PM PDT by Enlightened1
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To: Cry if I Wanna

I bet by conservative standards you are an abject disaster. Your “living wage” slip gave you away.


32 posted on 07/06/2014 2:51:58 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: FlJoePa
Now everyone is on island time, which I don’t consider a good result

No, not a good result, but a predictable one. Oh, as far as a private club goes? Very different dynamic from a restaurant.

33 posted on 07/06/2014 2:53:32 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: Ben Mugged

Nobody tips in Japan. Yes, the prices are high, but the service is good. Other countries manage without the practice. I personally think tipping is extortion and I hate the practice.


34 posted on 07/06/2014 2:54:00 PM PDT by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
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To: txhurl
I am an Egyptian dung-rolling beetle..

I bet you are.

35 posted on 07/06/2014 2:54:56 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: Cry if I Wanna

The Market HAS set the wage. Great waiters make great money at great restaurants, lousy waiters make the inverse.

Your experiment with ‘changing the DNA of capitalism’ will fail, is failing spectacturaly, I wish you’d do something else with your time, like waiting tables.


36 posted on 07/06/2014 2:54:59 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: Ronin
Nobody tips in Japan. Yes, the prices are high, but the service is good. Other countries manage without the practice. I personally think tipping is extortion and I hate the practice.

I personally think you don't know anything about how tipping forces the free market into the F/B business, and I also know you don't know a thing about the startling differences between the Japanese and American culture. Feel free not to eat out and save your extortion problems.

37 posted on 07/06/2014 2:57:52 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: txhurl
The Market HAS set the wage. Great waiters make great money at great restaurants, lousy waiters make the inverse.

Your experiment with ‘changing the DNA of capitalism’ will fail, is failing spectacturaly, I wish you’d do something else with your time, like waiting tables.

What's horrifying is she is a judge (or claims to be). I bet she destroyes the free market daily with her ruling, and is too ignorant to realize it. I am shocked how many Freepers don't understand what you call "the DNA of capitalism" as it pertains to this. (btw, I love that phrase)

38 posted on 07/06/2014 2:59:25 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: Cry if I Wanna

let the market set that wage/value just as it does for all other jobs.


You mean, let new LAWS set that market wage. SEIU troll.
Did you not notice the SCOTUS just justifiably set you back on your extortionist heels?


39 posted on 07/06/2014 3:00:14 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: Larry Lucido
Businesses can charge however they like. You can choose to dine elsewhere.

Bingo.

40 posted on 07/06/2014 3:00:21 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

One of zero’s minions coined that phrase, ‘changing the DNA of capitalism’. I forget which department.


41 posted on 07/06/2014 3:02:04 PM PDT by txhurl (2014: Stunned Voters do Stunning Things!)
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To: txhurl

your use of it in this context was elegantly brilliant IMO!


42 posted on 07/06/2014 3:02:52 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: Cry if I Wanna
I like the idea of a living wage for the server and a 5% tip max if the service was great.

That's how you should do it in your restaurant.

43 posted on 07/06/2014 3:03:04 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: Ronin
I personally think tipping is extortion and I hate the practice.

Be sure and mention that to your waiter before he serves you your food.

44 posted on 07/06/2014 3:05:10 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: RIghtwardHo
There is no requirement to tip, but if you don't I would advise not returning to that restaurant.
45 posted on 07/06/2014 3:08:28 PM PDT by AU72
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To: Jeff Chandler

No kidding. Good luck getting someone off their ass for the hope of 5% - regardless of base pay.

Anyone working hard for tips or commissions always has the hope of basically unlimited pay - it’s in your hands. Hourly wages alone can’t provide that and can stifle hustle.


46 posted on 07/06/2014 3:08:31 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: DisorderOnBorder

What do you mean ‘anymore’?


47 posted on 07/06/2014 3:09:18 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (I am a proud citizen of an idea called America.)
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To: txhurl
I wish you’d do something else with your time, like waiting tables.

I just want to see tipping go away. That's all.

48 posted on 07/06/2014 3:09:59 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: txhurl
SEIU troll.

I really am looking for more of an enlightened conversation. There's plenty of name calling at DU and other low-brow sites. I thought FR was above that.

49 posted on 07/06/2014 3:09:59 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: Jack Hydrazine
What about cow tipping? Should we tip cows, too?

As long as it isn't "Elsie"...why not.

Elsie appears daily on my milk carton and until she is found, I will not rest.

Can I get a moo?

* Big Smo reference

50 posted on 07/06/2014 3:15:09 PM PDT by capt. norm
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