Posted on 07/11/2014 6:11:45 PM PDT by Morgana
I got a FReepmail report of a virus being acquired on a visit to that site. I've visited several times on two different machines and never had a problem - but exercise due caution.
Well, it all depends on what the definition of “forgiveness” is.
Jesus asked His Father to forgive those that were crucifying Him at the cross because they didn’t know what they were doing. Didn’t ask that, near as I can determine, for Pilate or the High Priest. Pilate, for instance, knew he was executing an innocent Man.
Further, even the ones that He asked it for didn’t get it if they didn’t meet God’s conditions.
But getting back to the original point. Telling someone you forgive them when they haven’t asked for it, is just sticking a thumb in their eye. They don’t accept it.
Strictly speaking, salvation requires forgiveness, and forgiveness requires repentance. God is not about to populate Heaven with unrepentant sinners. But God is able to forgive a lot, so we should at least be prepared to as well. And going “eye for an eye” on someone does no one any good.
All I’m saying is that if someone has wronged me, and wants my forgiveness, he has to ask for it, and he may have to make it right.
Otherwise, fine. MY aim is to waste no more thought on him. I am through with that person, and it would be best for them if they never needed anything from me.
I have to admit though, I do have a lot of trouble with the whole “vengeance is mine’ thing and have spent a lot of time in prayer about nit.
When you say “and he may have to make it right”, I feel I must warn you a little bit. God didn’t require us to “make it right” before sending Jesus to atone for our sins. Not only is repentance needed for us to be forgiven, but our own willingness to forgive as well. Requiring compensation first is not forgiveness. I’m aware that the entire concept is not easy or intuitive, but it starts to make sense the more you consider it.
God required atonement. He let Jesus pay it, but it was required.There are some things that only require a simple “I’m sorry”. Others DO require atonement.
Someone once wronged me. I won’t go into the details. This person was motivated by sheer malice, nothing more as far as I could tell. She gained no advantage; I wracked my brains for months to figure out how I inspired such intense hatred in her. But I never did.
Here’s the thing: In doing what she did, she endangered my wife’s life. I’m not going to forgive unless she convinces me she’s changed. That will require some serious sacrifice on her part.
It’s not likely to happen. She’s not sorry, and she lives 4 states away now.
But it’s been along time, and I’ve mostly forgotten about it. I’m no longer bitter, and, in fact, what she did gave me a tremendous opportunity to improve my life. But I wouldn’t spit on her to save her life, although I might in other circumstances.
It took years of prayer and struggle to get to the point that I could let it go, but I finally did. But, no, I won’t give her cheap forgivness.
Well, I can’t pretend to walk in your shoes and I can’t say what’s best for you. Just letting it go, as you say, is all I was suggesting, as opposed to being spiteful. I’m glad you made it through whatever that was.
Let’s say that I “understand” the type of “wrongs” you’re talking about, if not precisely, I get the general idea enough for practical purposes.
IMHO, I think you’re on the right track.
A husband has a Biblical duty to protect the members of his household. When they are threatened or attacked, a husband will be moved to anger and to action. This is a God-given blessing in that the family has a determined and loyal protector on their side in the head of household. Of course, a head of household Biblically speaking should also have wisdom and restraint, so as to not be “hotheaded” and get angry at small things - which are not life-threatening, certainly.
All Christians have a Biblical duty to, in general, protect other people, especially Christians ! We so often don’t think of that.
Many Christians confuse personal wrongs someone commits against thems, personally, with sins someone commits against God. Some wrongs are, in fact, both of these, like stealing. The thief wronged the person he stole from, but he also sinned against God (remember the eighth commandment ?).
People can not absolve other people of their sins against God.
A person needs to be converted to Christ in order to avail themselves of Christ’s atoning sacrifice, regarding their sins against God.
As far as personal wrongs against a person, say, someone physically assaults you or your family, your first concern must be, of course, the safety of you and your household. When the altercation and threat subsides, reasonable caution is Scripturally warranted, and certainly prayers for God’s protection and help, but not vengeance.
If one’s family member suffers bodily harm at the hands of an attacker, this is particularly emotional, of course.
What we need to see revealed about ourselves, if we are to know that our own personal faith is oriented indeed in the direction of Scriptural truth, is that our primary concern is actually not our family - but God himself, our love for God the Father and his Son, by whose once and perfect sacrifice we are “bought with a price”.
If truly our Lord and Savior comes first in our lives, even above what is most precious to us (in the image of how Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son, Isaac, by the command of God), then even in such personally horrific circumstances as we might find our household, in our most troubled times, we would cling to the rock of our salvation, the Lord. As much as our emotions cry out for justice for our loved one who was so badly harmed, the Holy Spirit dwelling within us would comfort us in that regard and even redouble our devotion to obedience to the Word of God exhorting that vengeance is the Lord’s. We should rest in the fact that the Lord will recompense, if even at Christ’s day of judgement.
Part of following God’s Word, of course, is seeing that the civil government prosecutes crimes of bodily assault. Romans 13 is one chapter that deals with civil government being ordained of God. In a truly Christian nation, civil penalties will be compatible with Scripture, thus we will see God’s will be done on earth as in heaven.
This adherence to the Word of God is what really should be the Christian’s primary motivation in such cases, taking priority in our heart and mind. We should be most upset that God’s law was broken and most concerned that God’s punishment needs to be administered by the civil government.
Letting it go is one thing. It’s often hard enough, sometimes. But it is not forgiveness, and it is not pardon.
I’m glad to have made the progress that I’ve made, but no longer care if this person lives or dies
Those who are unrepentant, unforgiving, and merciless are already in hell, for hell is where God has been shoved away, and they have shoved Him away by their own bad will. Hell is where everyone is merciless, and there they are, forever, in the flames of lust and wrath, and in the endless abusive company of their own merciless selves.
We need to pray more for sinners. I'm preaching to myself here: I need to pray.
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