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MH17 One Week In (One week in, this is what we appear to know. )
Market ^ | 7-20-14 | Karl Denninger

Posted on 07/20/2014 1:55:34 PM PDT by dynachrome

One week in, this is what we appear to know.

Please keep in mind that falsification of various records and items, including so-called "photographic evidence", is relatively common. If you do not have an original digital image it can also be very difficult to detect -- but is usually not impossible. I have caught a number of faked -- and false claims made from real -- images over the years on The Ticker, including the infamous one of a so-called "camera" over the shoulder of a man that was fired upon by a US Helicopter -- and which, upon closer examination, certainly looked like a RPG and not any camera I've ever seen. Remember this?


That was "Wikileaks" with a claim that we had fired on an "unarmed" set of dudes. On examination of their video, however, the above was quite clear. If you display that to me and I'm in a chopper I'm going to shoot you because that sure looks like an RPG, it's being handled like an RPG, and the sort of picture you're going to take of me with it is the type that makes me explode. So with that out of the way, let's go down the bullet list....

MH17 appears to have been shot down by a surface-to-air missile. The flight was operating at an altitude beyond the range of small, shoulder-fired weapons -- that much is known from public data. Therefore, if it was hit by a missile the weapon had to be a relatively-sophisticated SAM weapon such as the SA-11.

Both the Ukraine and the "rebels" have or had SA-11 variants. But the Ukraine military allegedly has none that are known in the area where the shot had to come from, simply on the distance from the target that is possible for such a weapon. This does not make it impossible that the Ukraine military fired, but it is highly unlikely.

A Ukraine military transport was downed a few days earlier by the separatists, presumably using the same weapon (and maybe literally the same launcher) as it too was flying above the range of shoulder-fired missiles. This much we know as the separatists took credit for it and have not backed away from that claim. The sky was quite clear at the time of the incident from public footage of the impact itself. This strongly implies that multiple nations and certainly the US should have satellite footage of the incident. If such a smoking gun does exist, however, it also almost-certainly came from a classified device (e.g. a spy satellite.) The assumption has to be made that within the organs of the major nations involved they know, factually, exactly where the missile came from geographically. Missiles leave a big trail of fire and (for solid-fuel ones) smoke, never mind the explosion on impact.

There are multiple reports of a BUK (SA-11) missile battery crossing back into Russia missing either one or two missiles. There is what facially appears to be solid photographic evidence of said launcher missing said missiles. There is enough background in such images that their actual location ought to be able to be determined with a high degree of confidence, as well as whether or not the image of the launcher has been tampered with.

Ukraine (the nation) does not have control over the territory on which the plane fell, the separatists do. Therefore any claim that Ukraine's government "must allow {blah-blah-blah}" is nonsense and any nation or other organ speaking such needs to have a boot put up their ass as they are dissembing; the crash site evidence is not under the Ukranian government's control.

Those who have control over the crash site either directly or by proxy are the ones who must allow unfettered and unmolested access to it. They have already failed to do so and further, have tampered with the site (rather than simply securing it.) This is it not conjecture, it is fact as video evidence of said tampering is all over the world at this point.

There are reports that the ATC recordings (and presumably radar tracks as well) have been confiscated by the Ukraine government. Is this true and if so why, where are they, and how do we know they've been forensically secured and not tampered with?

Irrespective of who fired and why (it's nearly-certain that whoever fired the missile they thought they were shooting at a military aircraft and not an airliner) the question remains why the airspace in the vicinity of the known presence of these missiles, especially after one was used to down a military transport, was considered open to civilian transit. That's ****ing idiotic and the entire International community including the ICAO bears full responsibility for not issuing a strong warning to avoid transit of airspace known to be subject to the use of SAM batteries in a conflict. The ICAO has tried to duck responsibility claiming it belongs solely to the various nations involved. Bull****; to remain silent in the face of a known serious hazard is called negligence. Ask GM how this is working out for them if you need an education on that principle. It is a fact that misidentification of things flying around does happen, and it is also a fact that a civilian airliner has little to no defense against a SAM battery that is locked onto it; it is a sitting duck. If the weapon system in question was removed to Russia then Putin owns this shoot-down -- period. That missile system could not cross the border without Russian consent; irrespective of what happened before by allowing it into his territory in an attempt to frustrate investigation he took responsibility for its use.

We'll see how this continues to develop, but this much is certain -- the so-called International Community pays exactly zero attention to closing airspace to civilian flights where it is known that unstable individuals and groups have access to and the knowledge to use highly-effective military weaponry capable of downing civilian aircraft at cruise altitudes.

In this case that hazard did not even quality as a "best guess"; it was a known fact given the very recent downing of a transport with what appears to have been same weapon system.

TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: malaysia; mh17; russia; ukraine
A good overview, IMHO, of what the facts are as of now
1 posted on 07/20/2014 1:55:34 PM PDT by dynachrome
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To: dynachrome

2 posted on 07/20/2014 2:04:04 PM PDT by Fear The People (When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.)
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To: dynachrome

Gee, he expects there are more than an ample amount of data from various nations to make a case one way or another with certainty. ...

So riddle me this:
“Where is Malaysian 370”???

3 posted on 07/20/2014 2:12:27 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: dynachrome

If the Russian people would just put away the vodka for a minute, this shootdown of innocent civilians would be a wake-up call for them to see their future under this son of a chef.

I’m sure it is not lost on the Ukrainian people and even a lot of Russians in Donetsk looking at that wreckage.

4 posted on 07/20/2014 2:13:32 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Fear The People

In light of the recent Malaysia Airlines tragedies (one missing, one brought down by the Russians) I completed a project I began some time ago to remind us of an earlier Russian involved murder of hundreds of innocents. Will someone please remind obozo that it’s still a jungle out there!
(It’s a short 8 minutes)

5 posted on 07/20/2014 2:19:22 PM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: dynachrome
Here is a video of the system Putin's proxies used to blow up a civilian passenger jet.

6 posted on 07/20/2014 2:27:18 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: dynachrome

Had it been a Ukrainian missile, it hardly needs to be said the Russian loyalists would have been dancing around the field with evidence. And invited camera crews in by the dozens. Instead, the Russians obfuscate. Putin, borrowing a line from Zero, will pretend to have first heard about it from the newspaper, as he continues to deny his little green men exist.

7 posted on 07/20/2014 3:51:30 PM PDT by blueplum
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