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Terry L. Jones is a professor of history at the University of Louisiana, Monroe and the author of several books on the Civil War.
1 posted on 03/17/2015 8:14:26 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: iowamark
Northerners believed that America was the world’s last great hope for democracy

Democracy?
2 posted on 03/17/2015 8:16:05 AM PDT by mrmeyer (You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. – Robert Heinlein)
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To: iowamark
Should have listened to Sam Houston.

Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South.
3 posted on 03/17/2015 8:17:39 AM PDT by cripplecreek ("For by wise guidance you can wage your war")
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To: iowamark

“The War of Northern Aggression” as my grandpa used to say..


4 posted on 03/17/2015 8:18:00 AM PDT by Cry if I Wanna (.)
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To: iowamark

Some Civil War historian claimed the Union was fighting with one hand behind its back. The South was at maximum effort while the North had plenty of capacity, men and material it could use if needed.


7 posted on 03/17/2015 8:19:29 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: iowamark
The South was not trying to conquer the North. It was in a war to separate from the North. The USA would have gone on without the South and been just hunkydory. There was no existential threat to the North.
8 posted on 03/17/2015 8:19:58 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: iowamark

Since most of the fighting happened in the South, the North’s war machine was never imperiled.

I wonder if the South had won at Gettysburg, and had continued success on Northern soil, would the Union lost its will to fight.


9 posted on 03/17/2015 8:21:49 AM PDT by kosciusko51
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To: iowamark

No. The North was vastly more populous,industrial, and wealthy. It was an uneven match. The South had better generals though. In WWII the Germans also had better generals. But fortunately for the Allies, Hitler often ignored them. The Germans, like the South in the War Between the States, could never hope to keep up with Allied industrial production.


10 posted on 03/17/2015 8:22:13 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: iowamark

A key point many may overlook is that the South could not have achieved their goals with a “two-state” solution: the confederacy would have been a failed state. Keep in mind, that the war was not triggered by an attempt to ban slavery in the deep south, but to limit its growth to the West. Mere secession would have left the South not only with a large, enslaved population inclined to insurrection, but also with a white population that was largely doomed to mere agriculture, and yet could not compete with slave plantations. “Victory” without conquest of the North would thus result in a tiny, super-rich elite governing over a nation plagued by grinding poverty and unrest.

So the question is not could the South have repelled the North, but could they have conquered it; could they have won without home-team advantage? Could they have invaded cities like Boston and New York?


13 posted on 03/17/2015 8:23:22 AM PDT by dangus
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To: iowamark; All

IMO Maj. Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman would have had to have been assassinated in December of 1863 or January 1864...Then the south would have had a shot.


14 posted on 03/17/2015 8:24:02 AM PDT by areukiddingme1 (areukiddingme1 is a synonym for a Retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer and tired of liberal BS.))
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To: iowamark
Northerners believed that America was the world’s last great hope for democracy, and if the South destroyed the Union by force, that light of liberty might be extinguished forever. Lincoln once said the North must prove “that popular government is not an absurdity. We must settle this question now, whether in a free government the minority have the right to break up the government whenever they choose. If we fail it will go far to prove the incapability of the people to govern themselves.”

The only question that was settled, was that if your murder enough people who disagree with you, you can impose your will on the survivors, and that this principle applies to Republican forms of government, just as it does to Monarchies and Dictatorships.

What "consent to govern" and "social contract" really means is that "I only govern with your granting consent for me to govern you, and if you don't consent I will murder you."

The "social contract" is not a real contract because it is imposed under duress.
15 posted on 03/17/2015 8:24:56 AM PDT by baltimorepoet
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To: iowamark

The South was not fighting a war of conquest while the North was. The Republican government of the North would have continued but in smaller form without the South. It would have also continued in the South.


16 posted on 03/17/2015 8:25:01 AM PDT by rfreedom4u (Do you know who Barry Soetoro is?)
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To: iowamark

For the north it was very much like another war in the 1960’s. And people were getting VERY tired of the cost.

If not for Gettysburg, it is quite possible the South would have won. As much as I support their states rights stance, this would not have been a good thing.


21 posted on 03/17/2015 8:28:22 AM PDT by cuban leaf (The US will not survive the obama presidency. The world may not either.)
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To: iowamark

Another component was the North’s unlimited supply of free (non slave) military-age manpower : Ireland and Germany


22 posted on 03/17/2015 8:28:22 AM PDT by Seajay (Ordem e Progresso)
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To: iowamark

Like with most major wars the losing side usually has an opportunity to outright win a war or at least set up the conditions for a favorable peace. In the case of the Civil War, if Lee had made just a couple different decisions at Gettysburg, the South would have won her independence. At least for awhile.

Even if the 1860’s Civil War had been won by the South, it would have only been one battle in a longer war. The slavery issue would have still existed in the South, with the North likely actively encouraging slaves to flee north. Between the runaway slave issue and claims to western territory, it’s likely there would have been a second war. Of course there’s no telling which side would have won.


23 posted on 03/17/2015 8:28:36 AM PDT by LeoMcNeil
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To: iowamark

“By March 1865, it was obvious to all but the most die-hard Confederates that the South was going to lose the war.”

From what I can tell, that date should be March 2015.


24 posted on 03/17/2015 8:29:28 AM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: iowamark

Lee knew that the South couldn’t win straight up with the North from the very beginning. It was out manned and outgunned. He saw that the only way to possible to win was to prolonged the war and make it into a war of attrition, whereas the politicians fearing the death toll was too much would get involved and end it with a truce or settlement


33 posted on 03/17/2015 8:38:16 AM PDT by Bigtigermike (D)
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To: iowamark

Before the civil war: the United States “are”.

After the civil war: the United States “is”.

The original US Constitutional republic died the day the civil war ended, and a bureaucratic federal oligarchy took its place.


34 posted on 03/17/2015 8:38:26 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: iowamark

Harry Turtledove says yes.


48 posted on 03/17/2015 8:45:27 AM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: iowamark

No. The South lacked the resoruces, the international support, the economic wherewithal, and most of all the leadership to win.


49 posted on 03/17/2015 8:47:29 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: iowamark

Who said,”We lost?”


54 posted on 03/17/2015 8:50:09 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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