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Does the Constitution Clause in the Enlistment Oath Predominate the Orders Clause?
Vanity | 9/20/15 | Red Fox

Posted on 09/20/2015 5:34:40 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com

I ask because I believe the American soldier is unique in the world and history. I believe he would sooner protect and defend the constitution than just follow orders. Are our soldiers given a basic training on the constitution?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Military/Veterans
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1 posted on 09/20/2015 5:34:40 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com
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To: conservativeimage.com
"Are our soldiers given a basic training on the constitution?"

No.

2 posted on 09/20/2015 5:36:03 PM PDT by The_Republic_Of_Maine (I have no idea why anyone, in their right mind, would go into Portland, ME.)
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

Doesn’t that make the oath a sham?


3 posted on 09/20/2015 5:38:25 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com (Exile Obama)
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To: conservativeimage.com

We were given classes on the law of war, the Geneva Convention and lawful vs. unlawful orders.


4 posted on 09/20/2015 5:39:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (TED CRUZ. You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Then what’s the constitution doing in the oath? Oh, by the way, um, hi.


5 posted on 09/20/2015 5:41:34 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com (Exile Obama)
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To: conservativeimage.com
During my wife's second re-enlistment in the IRR I pointed out the conundrum of defending the Constitution and following Clinton's orders.

I had to wait outside.

6 posted on 09/20/2015 5:42:38 PM PDT by Feckless (The US Gubbmint / This Tagline CENSORED by FR \ IrOnic, ain't it?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And 'protection of the president' among other training.

/johnny

7 posted on 09/20/2015 5:42:48 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: conservativeimage.com

Part of the Constitution is that the president is commander in chief. And the Constitution provides remedy in the form of impeachment if he acts unconstitutionally. You can’t have every soldier deciding what orders are constitutional and what ones aren’t.


8 posted on 09/20/2015 5:43:09 PM PDT by Hugin ("First thing--get yourself a fire"arm!" Sheriff Ed Galt, Last Man Standing.)
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To: conservativeimage.com

I’ve served in both the Marine Corp and the army. Both Soldiers and Marines are not really taught much of anything about the Constitution other than to support and defend it. All are told to question orders that they think may be illegal and to refuse to follow them if they believe them to be illegal. While I was in (I’m now retired) I gave copies of the Constitution to my men and occasionally asked them questions about it. I reminded them on many occasions that their oath is to the Constitution and not to any individual.

Prior to retiring I asked numerous senior NCO’s if they would follow certain orders (weapon confiscation, fire on American citizens). The majority said they would refuse and would simply go home. Some didn’t answer and others said it depended on the circumstances.

I sincerely believe that our military would not take part in a war on the American people. I pray that I am correct.


9 posted on 09/20/2015 5:43:38 PM PDT by rfreedom4u (Chris Stevens won't be running for president.)
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To: conservativeimage.com

Nothing precludes those taking the oath from making an effort to understand what they are committing to.


10 posted on 09/20/2015 5:44:03 PM PDT by all the best
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To: JRandomFreeper

I don’t recall any such thing.


11 posted on 09/20/2015 5:44:22 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (TED CRUZ. You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: Feckless

Creating a conundrum is a method of abuse.


12 posted on 09/20/2015 5:45:19 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com (Exile Obama)
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To: Hugin

The Constitution isn’t that hard to understand. Is it not unambiguous? Is the case not clear against this president? Stop him! Somebody Stop Him!


13 posted on 09/20/2015 5:47:55 PM PDT by conservativeimage.com (Exile Obama)
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To: conservativeimage.com

It’s pretty straight forward and if you don’t know why you’re joining you shouldn’t be joining.

As for lawful and unlawful orders it’s a fine line.

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

The Oath of Office (for officers):

“I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the _____ (Military Branch) of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.”


14 posted on 09/20/2015 5:48:36 PM PDT by maddog55 (America Rising a new Civil War needs to happen.)
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To: conservativeimage.com

Sham? The Democrat congresscritters supported and defended
the Obamacare bill w/o knowing what was in it.


15 posted on 09/20/2015 5:50:00 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Voting is acting white.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Maybe it was my unit. We had it twice a year.

And maybe it was a tape we had at the unit that killed a half day of training. ;)

/johnny

16 posted on 09/20/2015 5:50:27 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

What years were you in? If Sgt. York was here his experiences would be different than ours.


17 posted on 09/20/2015 5:55:04 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (TED CRUZ. You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: conservativeimage.com
The Constitution isn’t that hard to understand.

So why do you have such a hard time understanding "commander in chief"? A lot of people have conflicting opinions about it. Look at those soldiers who refused to go to Iraq because they claimed Bush needed a DOW to order them there. They were court marshalled, and rightly so.

18 posted on 09/20/2015 5:57:47 PM PDT by Hugin ("First thing--get yourself a fire"arm!" Sheriff Ed Galt, Last Man Standing.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; JRandomFreeper

The memoirs of Sgt. York make reverential references to “Johnny the Cook”.


19 posted on 09/20/2015 6:01:38 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Which time?

First time was '80-'84/86 active and inactive.

Second time was after 9/11. I think the date was 8 Jan 2002 and I know it ended when my enlistment ended that time. Even reserves is for young men. That was reserve.

Jim changed my screen name for opsec on the second one.

/johnny

20 posted on 09/20/2015 6:07:45 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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