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Questions swirl around husband of brain-damaged Florida woman
Chicago Tribune ^ | Thu, Oct. 23, 2003 | BY MICHAEL MARTINEZ AND PATRICK KAMPERT

Posted on 10/23/2003 8:22:40 PM PDT by Gelato

Posted on Thu, Oct. 23, 2003

Questions swirl around husband of brain-damaged Florida woman

BY MICHAEL MARTINEZ AND PATRICK KAMPERT
Chicago Tribune

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - (KRT) - Michael Schiavo is in hiding, concerned over threats to his life, his attorney said Thursday. Yet the attorney for the parents of Schiavo's wife, Terri, the brain-damaged woman at the center of a contentious end-of-life case, says Michael Schiavo was seen shopping at an upscale Tampa mall in recent days.

As an advocacy agency continued its state investigation of Terri Schiavo's case Thursday and her parents resumed their vigil outside the hospice near St. Petersburg where she was receiving nutrition through a feeding tube, questions multiplied about Michael Schiavo's role and motivations.

Terri Schiavo "looks great," her father, Bob Schindler, said Thursday, even as legal scholars and medical ethicists criticized Gov. Jeb Bush's intervention this week to reinsert her feeding tube and predicted that a new law signed by Bush allowing that action would be struck down in the courts.

The growing national fascination with a case wrapped in a quality-of-life drama that many families know all too well increased the pressure on Michael Schiavo to tell his story. He issued a three-page statement through his attorneys to explain his position earlier this week. The statement tries to humanize a man who has been portrayed in testimony and affidavits as a tall, menacing bully who grew weary of his wife's continued presence in a persistent vegetative state as he built a life and a new family with a longtime girlfriend.

"I never wanted Terri to die," Michael Schiavo wrote. "I still don't. After … years of desperately searching for a cure for Terri, the death of my own mother helped me realize that I was fooling myself."

Even his attorneys acknowledged the need for Schiavo to surface publicly.

"It's been very difficult for him to understand and accept that he has got to publicize his situation," attorney Deborah Bushnell said. "He doesn't want this to be public; he wants it to be private."

Yet with more public attention focused on the case than in the preceding 10 years, Michael Schiavo - as his wife's legal guardian - publicly banned his wife's family from visiting her Wednesday at a Clearwater hospital and initially refused to disclose where he planned to transport her. She later was returned to Woodside Hospice, where she has lived since April 2000 and where Michael Schiavo's other attorney, George Felos, is a former board chairman. On Thursday, Michael Schiavo once again allowed the Schindler family to visit Terri.

Though her family has no access to Terri's medical records, Pat Anderson, attorney for her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, speculated that she was too weak for the move. "She needs to be in an intensive-care unit," Anderson said.

Thus, for the second time this week, Felos was left to explain to reporters Thursday the reasons his client continues to seek the removal of his wife's feeding tube.

Felos used this analogy as a window into his client's motivation: A couple is sitting around watching TV and sees a program about a horrible illness or an accident. They turn to each other and ask that they each not be kept alive artificially.

"That's basically what happened between Terri and Michael, and he's just determined to keep his promise," Felos said. "I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his promise to her."

Bob Schindler Jr., 38, Terri Schiavo's brother and a teacher at a Tampa Catholic school, said his family believes the Advocacy Center for Persons with Disabilities will turn up evidence of abuse and neglect in its investigation of Michael Schiavo's guardianship.

Michael Schiavo has strongly denied those allegations.

But Schindler charges an effort to cover up "attempted murder" is the reason behind Michael Schiavo's determination to let Terri die and cremate her body since there no longer is any money for Michael Schiavo to inherit from his wife's medical fund, which was depleted largely by Michael Schiavo's legal costs.

"The money has now deteriorated," Schindler said outside the hospice on Thursday. "That's why Michael is trying to kill her. If she wakes up and gets rehabilitated, she can tell us what happened that night (in 1990) - that's one theory why he wants her dead and cremated. Why does he want her cremated? If you start connecting the dots, it paints an ugly picture."

Michael Schiavo's attorneys say the Schindler family's accusations are fabrications born of desperation as their legal fight has foundered over the years.

Schindler said a bone scan taken a year after his sister's mysterious collapse 13 years ago recently surfaced; it shows a history of trauma, including broken bones. Schindler lived in the same St. Petersburg apartment complex as his sister and brother-in-law in 1990. He says Michael Schiavo knew CPR but did not perform it the night Terri collapsed and was deprived of oxygen for 10 minutes. Schindler said his family and their doctors suspect Terri Schiavo was beaten and suffered brain damage.

Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, says the bone scan only shows the normal changes of a sedentary person in a nursing home.

Felos vowed again Thursday to challenge the governor's new law all the way to the Florida Supreme Court.

Arthur Caplan of the University of Pennsylvania, one of the world's leading bioethicists who spoke this week at the annual meeting of the American College of Surgeons in Chicago, says he thinks the law will tumble.

"I think the action by the governor and the state legislature is immoral and unconstitutional," he said. "When did the Florida Legislature decide it couldn't trust its courts? The principle here is: Let a spouse make the decisions for their loved ones because they know them best."

Caplan pointed out that courts have consistently ruled in favor of Michael Schiavo even though his wife's parents and siblings have alleged he abused her.

"Look at the evidence," he said. "They keep coming back and saying, no, he's not in it for life insurance; he's not in it because he doesn't care for her. It's just that (the biological family members) want to be the decision-maker."

Caplan said the case also has implications for couples without a marriage license.

"If you're not married, if you're gay, or a common-law wife or husband who've been together for a long time, if this law holds up, then your mom is going to make the decisions, not your partner. You have no legal rights. They're out the window."

As to Terri Schiavo's legal rights, they remain in the hands of her guardian, Michael Schiavo.

---

(Martinez reported from Florida; Kampert reported from Chicago; Chicago Tribune correspondent Peter Gorner contributed to this report.)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: schiavo; starvation; terri; terrischiavo
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This is the first article I've seen from this angle.
1 posted on 10/23/2003 8:22:40 PM PDT by Gelato
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To: Gelato
"If you're not married, if you're gay, or a common-law wife or husband who've been together for a long time, if this law holds up, then your mom is going to make the decisions, not your partner. You have no legal rights. They're out the window."

A bald faced lie.

2 posted on 10/23/2003 8:28:26 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Gelato
Looks like Caplan, while not going as far as Kevorkian, would okay some assisted suicide
3 posted on 10/23/2003 8:33:05 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Gelato
If you're not married, if you're gay, or a common-law wife or husband who've been together for a long time, if this law holds up, then your mom is going to make the decisions, not your partner

Better your mother, than an alledgedly abusive spouse with something to hide.

4 posted on 10/23/2003 8:34:19 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: jwalsh07
BTTT!!
5 posted on 10/23/2003 8:34:27 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Logan's Home! Logan's Home! Logan's Home! Logan's Home! Logan's Home!)
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To: Always Right
I wonder if he tried to strangle her.
6 posted on 10/23/2003 8:35:49 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Gelato
"When did the Florida Legislature decide it couldn't trust its courts?"

I think it was November-December 2000 thereabouts.

7 posted on 10/23/2003 8:36:35 PM PDT by Joe Bfstplk (Vote Right or take what's Left.)
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To: Gelato
one of the world's leading bioethicists

I hate to say it, but a bioethicist is someone paid by a hospital or drug company to tell them whatever they want to hear. He who pays calls the tune.

This article forgot to mention that Michael Schiavo also blocked a priest from administering Holy Communion and Extreme Unction to her.

Nevertheless it's encouraging, because the suspicious facts are starting to get out, even to a liberal newspaper like the Tribune which would normally stick with the usual Culture of Death line.

8 posted on 10/23/2003 8:40:31 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Gelato
"If you're not married, if you're gay, or a common-law wife or husband who've been together for a long time, if this law holds up, then your mom is going to make the decisions, not your partner. You have no legal rights. They're out the window."

You can sign a power of attorney and a living will.

9 posted on 10/23/2003 8:41:20 PM PDT by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: Gelato
"If you're not married, if you're gay, or a common-law wife or husband who've been together for a long time, if this law holds up, then your mom is going to make the decisions, not your partner. You have no legal rights. They're out the window."

Good.....

10 posted on 10/23/2003 8:43:45 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Gelato
>> ...concerned over threats to his life, his attorney said Thursday.

Gee! Do you mean HE doesn't want to die?

11 posted on 10/23/2003 8:43:52 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: All
"[Michael is] just determined to keep his promise," Felos said. "I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his promise to her."
12 posted on 10/23/2003 8:45:49 PM PDT by Gelato
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To: Gelato
bttt
13 posted on 10/23/2003 8:46:47 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: T'wit
Michael Schiavo should not be hiding from anyone, for he must be a real chicken! He can dish it out, but he can not take it.
14 posted on 10/23/2003 8:47:46 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: Gelato
"That's basically what happened between Terri and Michael, and he's just determined to keep his promise," Felos said. "I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his promise to her."

Somehow, the term "promise keeper" does not blend in my mind to the motivation of one Michael Schiavo of Pinellas Co., FL. Just where is he "hiding," does that mean he is not at the hospice tonight?
15 posted on 10/23/2003 8:49:11 PM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: Gelato
Definition of a bioethicist: One who earns his living rationalizing the murder of the weak, the hurt, the helpless, the old and the infirm.
16 posted on 10/23/2003 8:50:34 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: Gelato
"When did the Florida Legislature decide it couldn't trust its courts?"

Oh, maybe 'round about November, 2000, Mr. Caplan?

17 posted on 10/23/2003 8:54:57 PM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: jwalsh07
The reporters don't even bother to read at the wording in Jeb's EO after the Law was passed: "authorizing the Governor to issue a one-time stay in certain cases where, as of October 15, 2003, the action of withholding or withdrawing nutrition or hydration from a patient in a permanent vegetative state has already occurred and there is no written advance directive and a family member has challenged the withholding or withdrawing of nutrition and hydration."
18 posted on 10/23/2003 8:56:23 PM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Take W-04....Across America!)
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To: Gelato
Felos used this analogy as a window into his client's motivation: A couple is sitting around watching TV and sees a program about a horrible illness or an accident. They turn to each other and ask that they each not be kept alive artificially. "That's basically what happened between Terri and Michael, and he's just determined to keep his promise have her killed," Felos said.

Sounds like laywer babble to me.

"I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his promise to have her killed."

19 posted on 10/23/2003 8:58:52 PM PDT by slimer ("The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.")
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To: T'wit
READ THIS and WEEP!

AFFIDAVIT _________

STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF PINELLAS )

BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make this statement of my own personal knowledge.

2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to that I was a Licensed Practical Nurse for about four years.

3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there.

4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial training there consisted solely of the instruction "Do what Michael Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated." This struck me as extremely odd.

-1- 5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo's intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things as "This is my order and you're going to follow it." He is very large and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you, getting right in your face and practically shouting.

6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because Michael wanted nothing done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri's hand to keep her fingers from curling together, -2- and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.

7. Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented by Michael. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "help me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like "pay." She didn't say the "n" sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper and scooted in bed on her bottom.

8. When I came into her room and said "Hi, Terri", she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying "Haaaiiiii" sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a "hi", which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound -3- being only a second or two long. When I told her humrous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.

9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused -4- on Terri's death. Michael would say "When is she going to die?," "Has she died yet?" and "When is that bitch gonna die?" These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include "Can't anything be done to accelerate her death - won't she ever die?" When she wouldn't die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as "Make sure the parents aren't contacted." I recorded Michael's statements word for word in Terri's chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn't to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.

10. Any time Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in her lungs, colds, or pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die.

He would say something like, -5- "Hallelujah! You've made my day!" He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out "I'm going to be rich!" and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.

11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats.

It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I'd check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri's mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift, as I recall. Normally Terri's blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is medically possible that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting, but I don't have -6- any way of knowing for sure.

12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I've said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named

Carolyn Adams, known as "Andy" Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as "They are old - let them die." I couldn't believe her attitude or the fact that it didn't seem to attract any attention.

She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my "rocking the boat."

13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at -7- night and spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me afterward and relay orders from him.

14. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn't stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.

FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.

CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this 29 day of August,

2003, by CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who produced her Florida's driver's license

as identification, and who did take an oath.

< signed Patricia J. Anderson >

Notary Public

My commission expires___________

< Notary seal of Patricia J. Anderson >

20 posted on 10/23/2003 8:59:12 PM PDT by Republic
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To: All
Thus, for the second time this week, Felos was left to explain to reporters Thursday the reasons his client continues to seek the removal of his wife's feeding tube.

Felos used this analogy as a window into his client's motivation: A couple is sitting around watching TV and sees a program about a horrible illness or an accident. They turn to each other and ask that they each not be kept alive artificially.

That's a pretty skimpy argument for taking someone else's life.

22 posted on 10/23/2003 9:02:12 PM PDT by Gelato
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To: Cicero
This article forgot to mention that Michael Schiavo also blocked a priest from administering Holy Communion and Extreme Unction to her.

---------------------

AS yet another act of love.

23 posted on 10/23/2003 9:05:06 PM PDT by RLK
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To: Theodore R.
I would bet a hundred dollars that it was Felos who made up the "promise" story and then told Schiavo to use it. That way Schiavo wouldn't look like a monster and nobody would be able to prove it's a lie.

Terri's supposed wish to die was never mentioned in earlier court proceedings. It would, indeed, be a highly unusual statement from a healthy young 26-year-old woman. Schiavo brought it up only later, when he stopped pretending to get therapy for her and started filing suit to kill her.

24 posted on 10/23/2003 9:09:48 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: Gelato
Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, says the bone scan only shows the normal changes of a sedentary person in a nursing home.

I am not a doctor, but I can't see that being in a nursing home even for ten years would result enough of a change in bone density that it could be interpreted as an break by someone analyzing the Xray.

25 posted on 10/23/2003 9:10:38 PM PDT by ikka
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To: RLK
>> AS yet another act of love.

Michael Schiavo is to love what Islam is to peace :-)

26 posted on 10/23/2003 9:12:48 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: Republic
He would say something like, -5- "Hallelujah! You've made my day!" He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out "I'm going to be rich!" and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.

I see two possibilities here: this guy is a complete and utter idiot, or, this woman is lying...

27 posted on 10/23/2003 9:19:36 PM PDT by RoughDobermann (Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.)
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To: T'wit
Definition of a bioethicist: One who earns his living rationalizing the murder of the weak, the hurt, the helpless, the old and the infirm.

A brilliant observation.

28 posted on 10/23/2003 9:21:58 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Republic
Wow, I hadn't seen that! Everyone should read it. Assuming there is no question of its authenticity, 20 million talk radio listeners should hear it.
29 posted on 10/23/2003 9:27:46 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: Gelato
I'd bet that Michael hides because he is LIVID that he NEARLY killed her and was interrupted legally. I believe that he'd give himself away of he spent too much time in the public eye. He has no shame. He couldn't. Look at how he is living - with another woman, one child and another on the way by her, introduces her as his finance etc..
30 posted on 10/23/2003 9:30:55 PM PDT by nmh
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To: Theodore R.
I think Michael is hiding because he knows that the news that Terri's admission to the hospice is ILLEGAL and a CRIME IN PROGRESS making him vulnerable ot CITIZEN'S ARREST is starting to spread. I know that the illegal hospice admittance is a relatively minor crime but once investegators get a GENUINE CHARGE against him of any kind then they have probable cause for looking at all the other stuff as well.
31 posted on 10/23/2003 9:32:21 PM PDT by Coral Snake ((deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz); ))
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To: T'wit
Whoa, you nailed it:

"Definition of a bioethicist: One who earns his living rationalizing the murder of the weak, the hurt, the helpless, the old and the infirm."

Websters needs an update.

32 posted on 10/23/2003 9:34:54 PM PDT by nmh
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To: T'wit
Michael Schiavo, why what's that they say? in hiding, his undying love has driven him into seclusion.

Not to mention that just about any normal guy would like to jack his jaw.

33 posted on 10/23/2003 9:35:29 PM PDT by BobbyK (The Truth Is Out There.)
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To: RoughDobermann
> this guy is a complete and utter idiot, or, this woman is lying...

My reading is that Schiavo is hot-tempered, vindictive and not very bright. (I don't think he had the guile or smarts to dream up this legalized murder scheme.) Felos is intelligent, cunning, focused on his "right-to-die" crusade, and mad as a hatter.

I hadn't heard of this nurse or read this affadavit before, but she's plainly a careful, trained observer and her words have the ring of truth.

34 posted on 10/23/2003 9:42:06 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: Gelato
Felos used this analogy as a window into his client's motivation: A couple is sitting around watching TV and sees a program about a horrible illness or an accident. They turn to each other and ask that they each not be kept alive artificially. "That's basically what happened between Terri and Michael, and he's just determined to keep his promise," Felos said. "I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his

Why the hell (scuse my french) is Felos using an "analogy." Why isn't he telling exactly what was alleged to have happened?

35 posted on 10/23/2003 9:51:14 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Gelato
Felos used this analogy as a window into his client's motivation: A couple is sitting around watching TV and sees a program about a horrible illness or an accident. They turn to each other and ask that they each not be kept alive artificially. "That's basically what happened between Terri and Michael, and he's just determined to keep his promise," Felos said. "I think he's unable to live the rest of his life if he walked away knowing he let Terri down and was unable to keep his promise."

Why the #%@*&!! is Felos using an "analogy." Why isn't he telling exactly what was alleged to have happened?

36 posted on 10/23/2003 9:51:16 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: nmh
When you get a bioethicist as bioethical as Peter Singer, you'd have to expand the definition. He thinks it's fine to kill perfectly healthy babies and toddlers up to age two.

Obviously the man has no experience as a parent. It's when they are about 2 1/2 to 3 that you really want to strangle them, and then when they are teenagers and just impossible :-)

37 posted on 10/23/2003 9:52:15 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: nmh
When you get a bioethicist as bioethical as Peter Singer, you'd have to expand the definition. He thinks it's fine to kill perfectly healthy babies and toddlers up to age two.

Obviously the man has no experience as a parent. It's when they are about 2 1/2 to 3 that you really want to strangle them, and then when they are teenagers and just impossible :-)

38 posted on 10/23/2003 9:54:37 PM PDT by T'wit
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: The Red Zone
> Why isn't he telling exactly what was alleged to have happened?

Because nothing happened.

40 posted on 10/23/2003 9:57:14 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: syriacus
Maybe it's fictitious or maybe Michael has a sister named Marjory who has a shell corp. Now, does Michael have a sister, niece named Marjory? Someone near his age or younger.

Get this. His mother WAS TOTALLY AGAINST Terri being starved and dehydrated to death.

She may have died of natural causes but his mom died after opposing his wishes.

41 posted on 10/23/2003 9:57:38 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com & press Releases at terrisfight.org)
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To: T'wit
Definition of a bioethicist: One who earns his living rationalizing the murder of the weak, the hurt, the helpless, the old and the infirm.

Same as what Hitler and the Nazis were then.

42 posted on 10/23/2003 9:57:48 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: RLK
Because it might have "upset" this "insensate" woman. Come on Mikey tell us which one you believe. Or maybe fire your scumbag lawyer who is advising you to constantly double talk.
43 posted on 10/23/2003 10:03:05 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Gelato; summer; mafree
Michael Schiavo in addition to the Schindlers resided in Pennsylvania. Interesting that the bioethics person is also in Pa. Did Schiavo find this bioethics guy to make a statement re: Florida law? They are trying to make it look like she died 13 years ago and they just can't bring her back.

Meanwhile, back at Hospice, Terri is following a balloon and wondering when mom and dad are coming to see her. Today was dad Schindler's birthday and the family had the party in Terri's prison cell. She was smiling. Pretty good work for someone labeled PVS. Suzanne said she looks a whole lot better today but of course the family has not seen her medical records for quite some time. Bay news 9 just reported the above.

JEB BUSH just said "It was the right thing to do. Proud of the legislature for responding." You, go, Jeb.

44 posted on 10/23/2003 10:03:05 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com & press Releases at terrisfight.org)
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To: Republic
14. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn't stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.

FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.

CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.

Carla is an angel.

45 posted on 10/23/2003 10:04:22 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: syriacus
per the article above, MS has a sister. Now we just need to see if her name pops up in any newspaper accounting, say the sptimes.com archives or tbo.com. If her name is Marjory, bingo. See tag line.
46 posted on 10/23/2003 10:05:44 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com & Contact terrisfight.org)
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To: T'wit
What is Hospice?

Hospice is a special concept of care designed to provide comfort and support to patients and their families when a life-limiting illness no longer responds to cure-oriented treatments.

Hospice care neither prolongs life nor hastens death.

Hospice staff and volunteers offer a specialized knowledge of medical care, including pain management.

The goal of hospice care is to improve the quality of a patient's last days by offering comfort and dignity.

Hospice care is provided by a team-oriented group of specially trained professionals, volunteers and family members.

Hospice addresses all symptoms of a disease, with a special emphasis on controlling a patient's pain and discomfort.

Hospice deals with the emotional, social and spiritual impact of the disease on the patient and the patient's family and friends.

Hospice offers a variety of bereavement and counseling services to families before and after a patient's death.





Hospice Services and Expenses



Patients referred to hospice when life expectancy is approximately six months benefit most from hospice care. While patients must have a doctor's referral to enter hospice, the patient, family and friends can initiate the process by contacting a local hospice program.



Before providing care, hospice staff meets with the patient's personal physician(s) and a hospice physician to discuss patient history, current physical symptoms and life expectancy.

After an initial meeting with physicians, hospice staff meets with both the patient and their family. They discuss the hospice philosophy, available services and expectations.

Prior to service, staff and patients also discuss pain and comfort levels, support systems, financial and insurance resources, medications and equipment needs.

A "plan of care" is developed for the patient. This plan is regularly reviewed and revised according to patient condition.

Bereavement services and counseling are typically available to loved ones for a year after the patient's death.






Hospice care is a covered benefit under Medicare for patients with a prognosis of 6 months or less. A patient can remain in hospice care beyond six months if a physician re-certifies that the patient is terminally ill.



This benefit covers all services, medications and equipment related to the illness. These include:

Physician services
Nursing services
Home health aides
Medical appliances and supplies
Spiritual, dietary, and other counseling
Continuous care during crisis periods
Trained volunteers
Bereavement services
Approximately 43 states and the District of Columbia offer hospice coverage under Medicaid.

Many private health insurance policies and HMO's offer hospice coverage and benefits.

Hospice services are covered under Champus/Tricare.

Regular Medicare coverage is available to Hospice beneficiaries for non-terminal related services.

The Health Care Financing Administration (HCFA) certifies hospices that provide Medicare covered hospice services.

There is no mandatory nationwide accreditation. Many programs are accredited by the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) or by the Community Health Accreditation Program (CHAP).

47 posted on 10/23/2003 10:06:36 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Always Right
Better your mother, than an alledgedly abusive spouse with something to hide.

So the key here for meddling parents is to allege abuse by your spouse, even if there's no proof of it?

48 posted on 10/23/2003 10:09:51 PM PDT by ambrose (If President Bush Loses, the Terrorists Win)
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To: RoughDobermann
or, this woman is lying...

But to be caught lying in a sworn testimony? What could be a motive for her to do that? I can see suspecting that someone is lying --- but you'd still have to look for their motive to lie. I can't see one.

49 posted on 10/23/2003 10:09:51 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: ambrose
When the adulterous spouse has a lover on the side and wants his wife dead --- I think the "meddling" parents would have cause for concern. Especially when there might also be some money in it for the adulterous spouse. I think at this point it's the adulterous spouse who is meddling ---- all he needs to do is abandon Terri --- he can go off with his lover and leave her to her family who still cares about her. He can care about his pregnant lover.
50 posted on 10/23/2003 10:14:13 PM PDT by FITZ
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