ACLU joins husband in Schiavo battle

Sun Sentinel ^ | 10/24/03 | Megan O'Matz and Diane Lade

[kattracks]

The American Civil Liberties Union said Thursday that it will aid Michael Schiavo in his fight against Gov. Jeb Bush and the Florida Legislature, which earlier this week took the remarkable step of passing a law to prevent the Pinellas County man from disconnecting his brain-injured wife from a feeding tube. For months, the ACLU resisted meddling in the dispute that has pitted a husband against his in-laws, believing that the courts were following the long-held legal right of an individual to refuse extraordinary medical measures, even if it hastens their death.

The intervention of the governor, however, altered the landscape, said Howard Simon, the organization's Florida director. Several other significant advocacy groups on the sidelines, such as the AARP, say they, too, are now looking at the issue.

[clee1]

Well, isn't that just typical?

[goldstategop]

The ACLU has come out in support of the right to kill "undesirables." No, its too much to protect the rights of defenseless individuals. Folks, we are looking at a whole new meaning for the phrase "civil liberties" in America.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

What's next? NOW to come out and proclaim that Terri Schiavo is mere chattle of her husband? This gets loonier and loonier.

[GailA]

the aclu wants to kill innocents like Terri, but fight tooth and nail to prevent the execution of convicted murderers.

[independentmind]

For months, the ACLU resisted meddling in the dispute that has pitted a husband against his in-laws, believing that the courts were following the long-held legal right of an individual to refuse extraordinary medical measures, even if it hastens their death.

I am soooo sick of the misrepresentations by the press about this case. Giving food and water to a brain damaged person is NOT an extraordinary measure.

[Zipporah]

What?? When I saw the headlines.. I thought ..good, Terri is going to have the ACLU help her... Sigh.....

[Broadside Joe]

Gee, who woulda thunk it? I told my kids that when you see the ACLU running this way ------->

<------- make sure you run that way and you'll be right 99.999999% of the time.

[NautiNurse]

The AARP should look into this case--and very closely. Michael Schaivo's behavior is particularly egregious and, thankfully, well documented.

No doubt, there are plenty of other elder care cases where a hefty inheritance will encourage some legal guardians to "allow the death process" to occur sooner rather than later.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

NOW must remain silent on this case, becaus they do not want to get embroilled in another "life" issue. Politically, I think NOW actually sides with Terri, but they mustn't say so.

[Agnes Heep]

Politically, I think NOW actually sides with Terri, but they mustn't say so.

NOW sides with the left. If it means that women go back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant in perpetuity, NOW sides with the left.

[Lockbar]

The reason the ACLU is supporting letting this woman die is because of all the support her Mom and dad have deservedly received from conservative style organizations. Helping a woman die, who still has her eyes open and with some bodily movement is a VERY NAZI thing to do as they were experts getting rid of the physicaly/mentaly handicapped, or anybody else that got in their way. Not the kind of side of humanity I would like to throw my support to. But the ACLU has no problem being NAZI like.

[fly_so_free]

"but fight tooth and nail to prevent the execution of murderers"

And, they fight tooth and nail to protect the "rights" of child molesters too.

Seriously though, everyone involved has to keep after the media to correct the lies and distortions around this case, they are about to get alot worse.

[drlevy88]

"We are afraid of lawyers all the time," said Dr. Lofty L. Basta, a retired Clearwater cardiologist and founder of Project Grace, a non-profit group devoted to educating people about end-of-life planning. "We practice defensive medicine. We do things that we know are wrong to protect our behinds. So this ruling from the legislators makes us very leery to carry out any order for dying patients."

They have nothing to fear; the constitutional ban on ex post facto laws has not gone away. The legislature cannot criminalize past actions.

[Loyal Buckeye]

It is very unfortuneate that what the legislature and governor did in this one case needs to be taken through the courts. The article indicates that because lawyers have threatened legal action and because there is now uncertainty as to the liability of hospitals and physicians regarding "end of life" issues, those wanting to die peacefully might not be able to do so.

The principle issue underlying the article involves uncertainty with the legal system, which has lost its way, and not a medical or moral issue. One would think that everyone (i.e., the lawyers in this case) could accept that this case is an aberration and should not affect existing "end of life" decisions made by others.

[xeno]

From the full article: AARP "members tell us that [medical self-determination] is a very important issue to them," Lipscomb said. "They're telling us they are very disturbed to think they could sign a living will or do not resuscitate order and have it overridden by the Legislature."

Isn't the problem that Terri didn't have such a will? When in doubt, shouldn't we always choose life? I am sadly not surprised to read this about the ACLU.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Considering how and why the ACLU was started, this all makes sense.

[freeangel]

ACLU, that's their name
Death and destruction
That's their aim

[bra]

I have been reading all these posts for many days now and can't take it anymore. "Kill undesirables"?... that is the most rediculous description of these events I have heard yet. All you folks that think "man, woman, or the state" has some right to play God need to get a life, or better yet, a good spiritual program. Life is greater than life's situtaion. A life situation is what we are dealing with here. There is much more to life than name and form. When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on. Why anyone would want to prevent that is perplexing. Is it selfishness? Keeping someone in name and form so they can feel good? Have you ever thought about yourself trapped in form by unconscious, selfish, insecure people? Create a great day! DE OPPRESSO LIBER

[syriacus]

For months, the ACLU resisted meddling in the dispute that has pitted a husband against his in-laws, believing that the courts were following the long-held legal right of an individual to refuse extraordinary medical measures, even if it hastens their death

The must be worried, for sure.

The ACLU thought it had Florida in it's pocket. Now they have to defend their position. Their honoree, Judge Kogan, came out in support of Schiavo the other day. Which worm will emerge from the woodwork next?

The Florida ACLU gave an award to the Former chief Justice of the Florida State Supreme Court, Gerald Kogan, who is a supporter of doctor-assisted suicide (aka, doctor assisted dying).

Interestingly, Kogan wants the death penalty eliminated because, if a mistake is made the innocent person who was executed can not be brought back from the grave.

Annual ACLU banquet honors Justice Kogan
(Ironic --- a banquet to honor someone who believes in starving innocent people.)

Always the courageous judge, Justice Kogan used his years on the bench to defend a wide range of individual rights.  In 1997, as Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court, Kogan dissented from the majority decision in Krischer v. McIver, the Florida test case on physician assistance in death brought by the ACLU on behalf of terminally ill patient Charles Hall and his physician Dr. Cecil McIver.  Tragically, the court held that Hall had no right to self-determination in the manner of his own death.  A five member majority ruled that intensely personal, private matters of individual autonomy should be left in the hands of the Legislature.  "When his pain becomes unbearable," Chief Justice Kogan wrote in a stirring dissent, "which one of us on this Court will be at his bedside telling him to be brave and bear it?"

Kogan is on record saying there is no difference between having a doctor kill a patient and halting medical care for a patient.

The award was also given to Kogan for his strong anti-death penalty stand

            Doubts surround Florida's use of the death penalty

But some, including former state Supreme Court Chief Justice Gerald Kogan, believe innocent people have been put to death. Kogan has said he has no question that Florida has executed people who were not guilty of the crime for which they were condemned.

[Toespi]

Again, a battle between good and evil. The ACLU is now in this fight, certainly not for Terri, but solely because Jeb Bush took a stand. If Bill Clinton or any other liberal had intervened on her behalf, the ACLU would not have become involved.

[palmer]

ACLU joins husband in Schiavo battle

Maybe they want to save him from the death penalty

[ClearCase_guy]

NOW sides with the left. If it means that women go back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant in perpetuity, NOW sides with the left.

Spot on. And the ACLU likewise.

[PeyersPatches]

This development I expected. The ACLU is a known communist organization whose goals are to destroy liberty and freedom in the USA, along with Christianity. A quick read of quotes from their founders is all one needs to assess what the ACLU is in my opinion.

Murder of 'undesirables' such as the disabled would be right up their alley, I'd think.

[Samwise]

[Broadside Joe]

"I have been reading all these posts for many days now and can't take it anymore."

I did the same till a few days ago.

"All you folks that think "man, woman, or the state" has some right to play God need to get a life"

That's what has been happening, thus the attempt to preserve one.

"or better yet, a good spiritual program."

For some of the questions being raised, those that think that a further investigation is not warranted, would tell me that they had been in a certain 'spiritual program' which could be called Jack Daniels or even peyote.

"When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on"

By that rational we would no longer need intensive care units.

"Is it selfishness?"

Well that's what people want to find out. Some of the actions (if true) of Mr.Schiavo would tend to point in that direction.

"Keeping someone in name and form so they can feel good?"

That's something that neither you nor I can make a solid judgement on yet. There are too many questions at this point.

"Have you ever thought about yourself trapped in form by unconscious, selfish, insecure people?"

I sure have but this isn't about me.

[LPM1888]

I have been reading all these posts for many days now and can't take it anymore. "Kill undesirables"?... that is the most rediculous description of these events I have heard yet. All you folks that think "man, woman, or the state" has some right to play God need to get a life, or better yet, a good spiritual program. Life is greater than life's situtaion. A life situation is what we are dealing with here. There is much more to life than name and form. When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on. Why anyone would want to prevent that is perplexing. Is it selfishness? Keeping someone in name and form so they can feel good? Have you ever thought about yourself trapped in form by unconscious, selfish, insecure people? Create a great day! DE OPPRESSO LIBER

Thank you! Very few voices of reason have been heard on this website lately.

[Pest]

As usual, the ACLU comes down on the wrong side of things. Isn't LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness a fundamental RIGHT in this country?

The only evidence that Terri doesn't want to live is heresay from her rat of a "husband".

Seems to me that when in doubt, CHOOSE LIFE!

[drlevy88]

When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on.

Tell that to Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawking. Or for that matter a newborn baby. Are you vying for the title of ghoul???

[Angry_White_Man_Syndrome]

What do you mean when a person can no longer SURVIVE on their own? So what about Christopher Reeve or Stephen Hawking, so we just let them die too. After all, they can not SURVIVE on their own. You imply the parents are selfish and insecure. I think you are the selfish one not wanting to be bothered with having to care for someone that can't give you something in return.

[Graybeard58]

"Several other significant advocacy groups on the sidelines, such as the AARP, say they, too, are now looking at the issue"


...Now I AM confused. Is the AARP about to advocate killing their own dues paying members?
...Don't they realize that if they do that they won't be able to afford to mail me their garbage any more like they have been doing for the past 9 years?
...I am used to receiving junk mail and don't have a problem just tossing it but this socialist organization bothers me more even than all the credit card offers I get.
...I am 58 years old and am not all the way senile yet but I am human and aging will have its effect on me too. Therefore I have instructed my children that if I get so brain dead as to think AARP is a good thing to just go ahead and shoot me.

[txrangerette]

You seem to keep up with the ACLU,
so why not contact them about the
federal agency in FL now opening
an investigation whether Michael
has abused a disabled person?

That might back them off.

Worth trying?

[IronKros]

GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!!!

[shhrubbery!]

For months, the ACLU resisted meddling in the dispute that has pitted a husband against his in-laws, believing that the courts were following the long-held legal right of an individual to refuse extraordinary medical measures

Note how the Sun Sentinel reporters/reporterettes adopt the ACLU's language hook, line and sinker.

"...the long-held legal right of an individual to refuse extraordinary medical measures" ??

Well, isn't the crux of this argument over whether Terri herself, as an 'individual,' --not as chattel of her cruel and philandering husband-- wanted to refuse 'extraordinary medical measures.' ? And who is qualified to decide?

[NebraskaTrailrider]

I said a few days ago that all the evil will be coming out of the woodwork on this one. Loud and Ugly. Stand Firm and continue to pray and stand for truth."And when, having done all, to stand in the day of battle."

STAND FIRM
Can I preach a moment, my intent is to encourage you.

Expect a display of all the evil that is in war against God.

Hebrews says By His death on the cross he disarmed the devil and all his minions, making a public display of them.

PUBLIC display of them.

Remember that Jesus became weak for us, on the cross, and in His weakness, He defeated the devil in the devil's strongest moment.

God is greater, and that is our hope. You cannot fight this battle only with email, fax and phone. This is a prayer battle, spiritual warfare, because there is great gain in this for satan if he can decieve the leaders into killing Terri, after all, he did it in Germany 50 years ago. I claim the Blood of Jesus over Terri, and pray that God will make a public display of the enemy in this battle, and that the conscious of our Nation will be roused, and Terri, at the center of this, will feel His Mighty Presence.

[headsonpikes]

Very few voices of reason have been heard on this website lately.

TRANSLATION: People are showing their feelings regarding the cruel death of a fellow human at the hands of an unfaithful husband and a swarm of predatory lawyers and 'administrators', instead of mouthing the hollow rationales of these latter creatures.

Isn't that just too GD bad!

[MHGinTN]

The ACLU is entering this fray because whatever endangers the judicial oligarchy diminishes the influence of the ACLU in their drive to mutate this society. If the Florida Laegislature succeeds in reining in the imperial courts and judges, the ACLU loses some of the empowerment judicial activism has given to the bringers of societal engineering lawsuits.

[aristeides]

The people on this site who support Michael Schiavo can now know that they are on the same side as the ACLU.

[Centurion2000]

The American Civil Liberties Union said Thursday that it will aid Michael Schiavo in his fight against Gov. Jeb Bush and the Florida Legislature

Bastards .... and that is the lightest word I can think to call them.

[syriacus]

Thank you for your encouraging post, NebraskaTrailrider.

[WackySam]

The AARP should look into this case--and very closely. Michael Schaivo's behavior is particularly egregious and, thankfully, well documented.

I think we will be seeing them chime in shortly.
Don't expect them to be on Terri's side either.

[Centurion2000]

When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on.

Babies can't survive on their own, should we kill them too ?

And if you have had ANY MEDICAL treatment at all you are being a hypocrite. Prehistoric humans were OLD at 35 because a broken bone would kill them.

[MHGinTN]

You pontificated, "When a person can no longer survive on their own it is time to move on." Now, would you be pushing the quality of Michael's life will be so much improved if he's allowed to put down this dependent human being, or would you be promoting the notion that you have deemed the quality of Terri Sciavo's life to be so insignificant as to warrant not protecting it from 'put down'? Additionally, since you refer to her as a person, are you asserting that in your deep wisdom her personhood is not sufficient to warrant protecting it? ... I've a person in my household who cannot survive on his own, so you're advocating that we can just starve and dehydrate him to death and move on?

I realize this perspective you've offered is already dominant in the abortion industry, granting the woman the right to put down a life support dependent human being so she can 'just move on', but are you advocating we now apply that same enlightened approach to those already born who cannot survive on their own? Yes, unless you care to qualify your remarks, it appears you are advocating just that, extending the same enlightenment used to justify the slaughter of more than a million unborn human lives, to justify the 'putting down' of those who inconvenience the life supporter's 'quality of life'. How very Eichmannesque of you.

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - Civil liberties for whom?

[syriacus]

You seem to keep up with the ACLU,

Even though I don't reallly know much about them, I've found a way that they can be useful to me.

When I do a google search on certain topics and add the "word" ACLU, all sorts of interesting links pop up.

It's almost as good as Christmas. :-)

[ladyjane]

Why am I not surprised.

[Pegita]

Agreeing with you, NebraskaTrailrider ...

Heavenly Father, all the forces gathered against one defenseless woman cannot stand before Your mighty power. May the eyes and ears of the world be opened to the battle that rages ~ bring forth before the people the truth of Your words:

In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind." Job 12.10

[CindyDawg]

I sent them an e-mail yesterday. AARP responded with they haven't taken a stand. I would copy and paste but I can't open edit when my aol mail on for some reason. All you "friends of Terri" that are members, let them here from you. I'm going to e-mail them back and tell them that if they do decide to come out and join the ACLU, I will cancel.

[mikemurphy111]

Despicable works too - how about a list of words that describe this left wing of the Democratic Party. Remember they also fought to send poor little Elian to his death in Cuba under Castro which is worse than going to Hell!!!! The ACLU also sided in Mass. with NAMBLA in that case where the ACLU opposed the boy's parents in their law suit against the rapist's who killed their little boy. ACLU stand for scum, gutter crawling, lowest of the low, meanest of the mean, etc. etc.

[mrobison]

I'd even go further. The ACLU is now saying that being murdered by your husband is a civil liberty. I wonder what Hitlery thinks of this.