Libertarians Pursue New Goal: State of Their Own

NYTimes ^ | 10/27/03 | PAM BELLUCK

[RJCogburn]

What ever happened to the 1970s era libertarian plan to take over a tropical island and create an independent country?

Minerva. A South Pacific atoll that was underwater at high tide, and unclaimed by any nation. The plan was to build a seawall and make dry land. It would be a freeport which would be the non tax source of income.

The organizers produced a 'collectible' coin as a fund raiser (No, I didn't buy one)

The dream ended when the king of Tonga, at the head of what news reports at the time described as a 'war canoe' arrived, claimed the atoll for his kingdom, and drove the new country project people away.

[RJCogburn]

Here's a link

http://www.imperial-collection.net/minerva.html

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Why didn't the Free Staters pick one particular county in NH? Why diffuse the effort across the whole state?

[corlorde]

Claremont needs some fresh ideas.

[headsonpikes]

I had a good chat with John Hospers about this in '96.

The early years were the optimistic years. ;^)

[samtheman]

Like any good cult, they leave real-world considerations out of their calculations.

[Durus]

There you go throwing the cult word around again. What do you know about the freestate project? Based on your knowledge of the freestate project, what real world considerations do you think they failed to calculate?

[samtheman]

The real-world consideration ignored by all Libertarians: foreign enemies out to murder us in our sleep.

[Durus]

I don't think that the freestate project pretends to ignore such issues. Stop by the freestateproject.org website sometime to get the facts.

Unless of course you just want to slam L/libertarians no matter what the facts may be.

[samtheman]

I know many libertarians. I've been in many discussions with libertarians. I'm not against people moving anywhere they want to move to be with like-minded neighbors. I see nothing wrong with that. I wish them all the success in the world in building whatever community they want to build. I'm sure it will be a fine and pleasant place to live. But I still believe that the Libertarian Party is both a political party and a cult. It has many cultish aspects. One is a complete disregard for the need for a strong national defense. That's an issue that won't really come up in their local community --- unless they refuse to pay their income tax, like other cultish New Englanders have done in the past.

[Durus]

The freestate project is not an arm of the Libertarian Party, and in fact there is much debate going on now on if they will even un-officially support the NH Libertarian Party.

Believe me when I say that I know many libertarians (adherents to the political philosophy) that are both, in agreement with your assesment of the LP, and are far more digusted with the LP then you are.

[samtheman]

Interesting.

Both your points.

Thanks.

[archy]

FSP PorcuPing!

-archy-/-

[archy]

Why didn't the Free Staters pick one particular county in NH? Why diffuse the effort across the whole state?

Because in any group of 5000, hopefully followed by 15,000 more in the years to come, there'll be a wide range of personal circumstances, trades, family groupings and individual tastes. Some are hoping for a few acres in a rural locale, others have positions or trades that require location in a county seat or the state capital city.

Railroaders need to be at least fairly near the lines that serve their hometown, truckers need to be near their terminals, aircraft pilots and mechanics near an airport.

With thousands on the way, it's most unlikely that they'll cluster too much in any one or two counties, though surprise, surprise: Those counties in which NH Porcupines or libertarian cousins are already located have been described and offered as interesting choices to those so inclined, and particular offers of hospitality and initial relocation assistance will surely get at least some takers. That may even offer enough of an impetus to result in some FSP results as soon as the election a year and a month from now- no certainty on that, of course, but it's possible, and would make a nice touch.

And who knows: maybe as the Democrats find them relegated to the fourth-largest political party, some will return to the pismire socialist/liberal havens from whence they fled, offering vacated spaces for even more Porcupines jumping on the Granite State bandwagon. We shall see. But the next few months will be an intense time for some, followed by the next 24 months and the remainder of this first decade of this new century.

-archy-/-

[Hemingway's Ghost]

How many you think are headed for Rockingham County (near the border w/MA) . . . ?

[archy]

How many you think are headed for Rockingham County (near the border w/MA) . . . ?

The last poll I saw of those planning to make the move before the 20K figure is reached, which may well not be indicative of those coming in the later bunch [many of whom are college students, planning to arrive after graduation; others are plasnning transfers to NH institutions for their final graduation or post-grad work] indicated that Coos, Grafton and Carroll counties in the northern *spearpoint* of the state were favoured. And I'm one of 'em, looking at the N. Conway-Crawford Notch area myself.

Just hazarding a guess, I'll bet Rockingham picks up something around a tenth of the 20K, maybe 1500-2500.

Yeah, I know: the 15,866 registered Republicans plus the 8,324 Unaffiliated voters remain less than 25K, even adding in the 59 registered Libertarians. Add 2500 Porcupines, and it still totals only 26,690, still less than the county's 29,301 registered Democrats. There's still a lot of work to be done....

But why don't you ask yourself? You can check out the NH discussion group *here* and the *pioneers* relocation group *here*- and even if you don't care to join the Porcupines' overall effort, we'd love to have you as a *Friend of the Porcupines-* like Governor Benson is.

-archy-/-

[Hemingway's Ghost]

You guys can consider me your Lafayette over the boahdah.

[bc2]

First of all, libertarians believe in no gun control and a heavily armed populace, in addition to a strict policy of international non-interventionism. This philosophy, coupled with advancing international free trade, would be the best recipe for a national defense.

Secondly, I have only ever met 3, 3 libertarians in my entire life, who believe in open borders. LIBERTARIANS WANT CLOSED BORDERS. Many believe it is a "property right" of such. That the national LP platform calls for open borders means very little in the minds of libertarians across the country who want to secure our borders.

As the other poster said, there are many, many libertarians who wish to change a few parts of our platform. Open borders is a big one.

[archy]

You guys can consider me your Lafayette over the boahdah.

Lafayette, we are here. Soon.

-archy-/-

[jmc813]

WOD Ping