9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun [arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed]

The Morning Journal ^ | 10-28-03 | The Morning Journal

[ambrose]

9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun

MICHAEL C. FITZPATRICK , Morning Journal Writer

10/28/2003

LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report.

His mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, said her son, Thomas Clark Jr., told Lorain police when they approached him outside a Broadway business that the gun was a toy. An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report.

Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report.

''He doesn't deserve this. He is not a bad kid at all. That's what I was trying to explain to the officer. It's just not fair,'' Saunders said.

Saunders was getting her hair done at the Northern Institute of Cosmetology on Broadway near Seventh Street when the incident began.

Saunders said she and her son were spending the day together . Saunders said her son got his hair cut first, and then he went outside to play while waiting on her.

A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report. The report said the gun was spray painted black and resembled a genuine gun.

At that point, Officer Joe Novosielski confronted the boy at gunpoint, ordering him to drop the gun and then lie on the ground, the report said.

Thomas, who his mother said has been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, said he was frightened by the incident.

Lorain police said Novosielski handled the situation properly.

''Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that,'' Lt. Robert Poli said.

''We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around,'' Poli said. ''You don't know it's a toy gun.''

Saunders said police were not even going to come inside the cosmetology institute to tell her they were arresting her son. She said she learned from another woman her son was being arrested.

Saunders, wearing curlers in her hair, said she raced out to the police car to attempt to intervene on her son's behalf.

''He (Novosielski) snatched me by the arm and cuffed me. People were just walking down the street shaking their heads. I did not cuss at him, and I did not yell at him, because I'm not that type of person. I feel I'm the one that was disrespected,'' Saunders said of her arrest.

When informed her son was being arrested, Saunders attempted to pull her son away from the officer but moved away when told to, according to the report.

Police said Saunders pleaded with them not to arrest her son and to ''just give him a warning,'' according to the report. She also told police her son ''was just playing'' and that he didn't point the gun at anyone before asking police, ''Don't you have anything better to do?''

Saunders was eventually arrested after refusing to move away from the cruiser where her son had been placed, the report said. The officer told her to finish her business at the beauty salon and then come to the station to pick up her son, according to the report.

She is free on $750 bond and is scheduled to appear in Lorain Municipal Court today. The report of Thomas' arrest was forwarded to the juvenile court system, according to the police report.

Lorain County Prosecutor's Office spokesman Mark Hastings said the report had not been received yet.

[ambrose]

[ambrose]

An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report. Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report.

[exit82]

Why does the image of Barney Fife come into my head when I read this?

If this happened forty years ago, the sergeant would have smacked the patrolman upside the head for being so damn stupid and causing a problem.

Kids do stupid things. Once they determined it was a toy gun, a strict lecture was in order. Instead, the kid gets arrested, and so does his mother for being so rash as to plead for the police to exhibit common sense in the situation.

It's just as bad here in NJ. Four boys were suspended for playing cops and robbers on the school playground, using their HANDS for guns. They were in kindergarten.They were humiliated by school personnel, and the parents hit the roof! It caused a big stink. Zero tolerance means never having to say you're sorry.

[JoJo Gunn]

When the Leftists scream about cops, in cases like this who can argue?

[Ruth A.]

Police Gone Wild. This is craziness. Sure you approach with caution when you aren't certain about a situation, but then you give 'em hell verbally.

[Drammach]

FYI all those who are interested;

Lorain is in OHIO, just west of Cleveland.

[Ajnin]

The problem with liberals is that they would think the arrest of a nine year old waving a toy gun is a legitimate bust. However, when a cop arrests a murderer the libs would scream about human rights abuses.

[Prodigal Son]

Oh my.

[Veracious Poet]

LMAO...are these cops for real?

[dasboot]

Lorain is in OHIO, just west of Cleveland

I knew there had to be a rational explanation.

[cricket]

Police response understandable; the follow-up, arresting the child, citing and threatening the Mother are beyond the pale - or sadly, used to be - before Liberalism became the accepted consciousness of the day.

The question is, 'can we stop the insanity'?

As for poor Barney, he acted out of a kind of innocent ignorance; a naivete. His truth was he wanted to harm no-one.

This abusive action reminds me more of an 'Elian Gonzales' scenario. . .and the same for the kindergarteners using their fingers as guns . A mindless overkill. . .facilitated in this case by Zero Tolerance.

[Ronin]

Thomas, who his mother said has been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, said he was frightened by the incident.

What rational human being would NOT be frightened by this?

I suppose if the kid had not dropped his toy the cop would have been justified putting a bullet through his nine-year-old noggin. Let's get real here. Yes, there are some replicas, pellet guns, etc., that are almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

I do not believe this was the case here. This was an obvious toy and the cop KNEW it was a toy, but went into his macho LAWMAN routine anyhow.

The questions then becomes, what in the heck was the kid arrested for? Having a toy gun is not, as far as I know, against the law. He dropped the thing when the cop told him to. Where is the justification for cuffing him and hauling him in?

[Porterville]

Something needs to be done, but what??

[BulletBobCo]

"Saturday Night Live" could only improve upon this story by having two guys walk by the cops hauling away a cash register from the beauty parlor without a second glance from the cops as read the kid his rights.

[Consort]

[roadcat]

"Something needs to be done, but what??"

Post pictures everywhere of the cop with the slogan "Child Molester".

[Porterville]

I think that would work, teach them about harrasment.

[Iconoclast2]

Why do you assume the action was "mindless", or "innocent"? Isn't it more likely that the whole point of these sorts of responses is to normalize hysterical overreaction to the mere sight of guns in the possession of anyone other than Government? You underestimate our enemies.

Once the majority of Americans regard guns with fear and horror, the Second Amendment is dead no matter what is written on a piece of paper. We are well along the way; I have had a hell of a time deprogramming my own kids from this State-programmed response.

[Porterville]

I don't know, more and more places are getting allowing people to carry guns around; even the Secret Service let a guy go yesterday who was getting to close to one of the daughter Bushes. He was packed and had ammo in the car.... although the liberal pukes are trying, they can't succeed because in America nobody is willing to give up any right to anything.

[ido_now]

When the "left" called the cops "pigs" in the 60's they were wrong, then.

This behavior is no longer isolated to "funny" stuff like this story, but includes "accidental" killings on drug busts, almost on a daily basis.

I think we all were asking for this all along.

PS: The original definition of SWAT was Special Weapons Attack Team.

[zx2dragon]

This "police officer" needs to be fired and then varred from any occupation that may come into contact with minors. He's an absolute idiot. This should have been a very stern lecturing on why you do not remove or paint the orange or red pieces on toy guns and possibly even confiscating said toy gun long enough to paint the front orange or red.

[battlegearboat]

Do you have a lie sans for that minkee?

[Centurion2000]

An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report.

Scumbag cop ...... jerks like this make the rest of the police force look like crap.

Granted there are good ones but they are getting rare.

[The Red Zone]

This should have been a very stern lecturing on why you do not remove or paint the orange or red pieces on toy guns and possibly even confiscating said toy gun long enough to paint the front orange or red.

As though real guns somehow magically refuse to let themselves be likewise painted?

[Michael81Dus]

Land of the Free, eh?

I´d love to read the comments if that had happened in Europe... ;-)

[csvset]

''Don't you have anything better to do?''

Tell it to the judge lady ! Pay the clerk on the way out. /sarcasm

Sheesh. I'm thinking back to when I was a kid, we played "cops & robbers", "cowboys & indians", "army" or "war".

We actually had caps too!

We would have wound up on death row for those "crimes"!

[BulletBobCo]

Those cops will have a field day come Halloween.

[SLB]

Can you even buy a cap gun anymore?

This incident shows the level the LEO commnity has sunk to. No common sense at all. Why didn't the cop tell the kid to put the gun away and quit frightening people? Then stick his head in the beauty shop and tell the same to mom.

I guess the next time I empty the gun locker to the picnic table in the back yard (enclosed by trees) for a mass wipe down and cleaning I need to be ready for the E'town SWAT team.

[FreedomPoster]

>>Sheesh. I'm thinking back to when I was a kid, we played "cops & robbers", "cowboys & indians", "army" or "war".

Heck, we had bandoliers of belted .308 brass on links, plus our toy guns. So we were beyond toy guns, beyond full auto toy guns, and into BELT FED toy guns. And were playing war on an Army post, to boot.

If you were really cool, you had enough brass and links for two bandoliers, so you could put one on each shoulder, crossed across your chest, Mexican bandito style.

[ThanhPhero]

One can only admire the restraint exhibited by the police officer in not taking advantage of his opportunity to add a noch to his pistol grip Had he shot the boy he would have been awarded a paid vacation by his employer while the circumstances were investigated and would return refreshed to his duties to the congratulations of the Department for doint the right thing.

[FreedomPoster]

>>I need to be ready for the E'town SWAT team.

I finished high school (1-1/2) years at E-town, after 3-1/2 years at Fort Knox Dependant Schools. So I'm familiar with E-town. That's a scary thought.

[SLB]

Thought you might like to see their web page. Maybe drop someone there a note about what kind of idiots they are.

http://www.lorainpolice.com/contact/

SR - you be careful when traveling through that country.

[AAABEST]

This incident shows the level the LEO commnity has sunk to. No common sense at all.

Sorry to say this, but the fact is that most street cops are stupid, out of shape, have emotional problems or all of the above. I've met many that were bright and had it together, but they are a minority and such types don't thrive well in such an occupation. They either become detectives or join Free Republic.

[SLB]

I realized I stereotyped with the comment. I have a new neighbor who is a KSP (Kentucky State Police) trooper. Seems to have his head screwed on at least mostly straight from talking to him.

[Truth29]

This woman and her son need the help of a Second Amendment foundation to provide well funded legal services. Otherwise, she will be induced to plead guilty, get a permanent record, and her son will be put under social services oversight for reeducation.

Anone have any suggestions and how to get information to her?

[machman]

A kid with a gun? Where???? I'll teach him a lesson.

[csvset]

This story reads like a plot for Reno 911; Comedy Central's parody of Fox's COPS.

I'll send Comedy Central a link to this story. Perhaps they can use it in a future episode.

[Jonx6]

ping

[scouse]

A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police,

The problem lies not in our stars but in ourselves. The passer-by should be sent to a re-education center and all his/her property confiscated and given to the homeless.

[grumple]

Has anyone seen that new show Reno 911. It's a hilarious spoof on "Cops". This sounds like a skit from that show.

[FreedomPoster]

Speaking of spoofs on Cops, have you seen Troops? It's hilarious, well worth the download.

Download here:
http://www.theforce.net/theater/shortfilms/troops/

[giotto]

In a sane world, I would say the officer was way out of line. But the reality is that the mother is partly to blame for allowing her child to take a spray painted toy gun into a public place. She should have realized that someone could mistake it for a real one. I know this sounds nuts, but if had been my kid, I would have told him to leave it at home.

[Jeff Head]

FYI. Hard to believe.

Understandable that they responded to a citizen's concern who may have thought a 9 year old had an actual weapon.

Completely beyond the pale how they handled it in approaching the child with guns drawn and trained on his head, and once they realized it was a plastic, toy gun. They should have given this kid a stern lecture, asked where his mom was and then had a talk with the mom returning the child to her.

[cricket]

"Saturday Night Live" could only improve upon this story by having two guys walk by the cops hauling away a cash register from the beauty parlor without a second glance from the cops as read the kid his rights."

This would be a funny scene; it surely would communicate the truth of the matter and the absurdity.

[LTCJ]

Follow the motive:
Zero tolerance means never having to say you're sorry "I think for a living".

[cricket]

"Why do you assume the action was "mindless", or "innocent"? Isn't it more likely that the whole point of these sorts of responses is to normalize hysterical overreaction to the mere sight of guns in the possession of anyone other than Government? You underestimate our enemies. "

Do not know where you read that I thought this action was innocent. Perhaps there was some confusion by my mentioning 'Barney' aka Barney Fife/Andy Griffith. . .as per Exit82's response/post#4). . .seems I accidentally dropped his name from the address box when I responded;so sorry if that was at least, part of the confusion.

Truth is, I do not underestimate any Liberal or the damning, slippery slope of Liberalism. . .

. . .as for referencing this action as 'mindless'; could be an 'effort'; but think for the most part, the Libs have already succeeded in their normalizing mindless. A quality surely necessary for the success of policies like 'Zero Tolerance'; and just as necessary for our abiding to the new rules for social discourse/behavior, put forth by the rules of 'Political Correctness'; now observed as a mindlessly, generic behavior response.

Another, more hopeful thought, maybe at least some of these outrageous responses that we read about, are designed to to do precisely this; not educate a community into Liberalism, or be a barmonter of it's success; but rather, these seemingly idiotic responses are purposely acted out as a 'wake-up call' and a warning; to our living a future in The World According to Liberals. . .

[harpseal]

I guess the next time I empty the gun locker to the picnic table in the back yard (enclosed by trees) for a mass wipe down and cleaning I need to be ready for the E'town SWAT team.

In CT the law is one may not carry a firearm in any way which alarms "The Public." In some towns this has been enforced so that a person cleaning a shotgun in his living room with the shades open was visited by the local PD becuase a person driving by saw a man with a gun in the house.

To me the person calling in the report should have been arrested as a peeping Tom but this was in one of the more "Liberal" communities.

[kaylar]

Love that show! Wish they had left in on Wednesdays, but anyway...You're right, this does read like something that buch would do.