Bolivian Leader Warns U.S. on Free Trade

Yahoo News / Associated Press ^ | Thu Oct 30,10:02 PM ET | ANDREA RODRIGUEZ

[squidly]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that "only" giving them $123 million is a travesty, or are you saying that $123 million is too much? We don't owe them Jack Schitt, you know. If you don't think $123 million is much, I'll be glad to take it.

[whiskeyandvicodin]

Frankly, I dont think we should be giving these countries foreign aid at all. It's been well documented (see the works of economist Peter Bauer) that foreign aid goes from government to government..not from our government to poor people. Our foreign aid, in many instances, simply keeps repressive governments in power..and keeps their citizens poor.

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt

[dasboot]

my 2cents: Bolivia was in the hands of some alleged free-market, anti cocao reformers who milked the US of aid as a bulwark against encroaching communism and a ally in the WOD. They got the dough, prolly bought a bunch a helecopters and guns, and paid themselves a lot of money from the pot, while they told the farmers, whose best friends are drug trafficers and Fidel, to grow a bushel of tomatoes for a buck instead of a bushel of leaf worth a lot more. Fidel and his narco-trafficing buds prolly gave a bunch of dough to agitators to shake the old guard out...they went...and now Bolivia is gonna gin up it's drug trade. Happy Farmers, happy commies, happy drug guys. And if they can figure out a way of scamming the US again, all the better. But I don't think GW's gonna fall for it. I think he thinks that the WOD and communist momentum are linked. I don't know what he's gonna do, but I don't think he'll make the same error as the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S BOLIVIAN GIVAWAY.

Maybe I'm wrong?

[witnesstothefall]

The founders, like all human beings, were wrong at times but I'm not interested in discussing whether or not they understood or approved of capitalism..simply because I don't care.

Let me guess, a Rayndian, right? Let me ask one question: Do you support child labor laws, or should the free market be allowed to find its resources where it will?

[dasboot]

Oh yeah...I think this Commie stuff is more a cover for the filthy rich drug guys than any kind of social movement. It's a happy arangement between the two groups, time being. I think.

[GeronL]

I think its way too much, and after this story I think they should get nada

[Fledermaus]

That does it! We should surrender. I never anticipated the Bolivian move. It's over!

[whiskeyandvicodin]

Well, the WOD and communist momentum ARE linked. The more we step up the WOD, the more momentum these communist movements gain. The WOD gives these countries more incentive to enter the drug trafficking industry because it increases their returns. There's no shortage of poor people over there who are willing to transport some stuff over the border. We increase our efforts to eliminate drugs..drugs become more expensive..therefore more people have the incentive to sell drugs..

[dasboot]

Would you consider a 12 year-old apprenticed to a luthier as child labor? Howbout public school kids forced to do com-serve? Howbout a 12 year-old keeping a family together in tough times by working in a sweat shop...say, a Hmong kid who really doesn't like school so much anyway, and really doesn't want his baby sister sleeping on the floor?

Just wondering.

[dasboot]

Yep, there's a good argument fer that dynamic. But it's complex, and I can't figure out what to do about it. Execute American junkies?

[GeronL]

VP Mesa stabbed his Prez in the back!

[witnesstothefall]

I consider child labor as a child working.

I worked in my dad's family-owned textile mill beginning around age 7, and got paid a nominal 50 cents for many hours' work. My father was teaching me very early about the value of work and money and didn't need my labor.

But you and I both know that children are often exploited mercilessly where "capitalism" is completely unfettered.

Are you suggesting there is no wrongful exploitation of child labor in the world, or in our own history?

[dasboot]

You could be right. Might not be. Did CPI provide the money, or other financiers? Revolutions ain't cheap. I think the peasants want to grow the leaf. Commies say "OK": peasants say "VIVA REVOLUTION!"

[Dolphy]

Do you mean just a general caring for humankind? If so, how should businessmen act if capitalism is to be humanistic?

I'm not sure humanism is the right word, but it is the right instinct. Capitalism is no answer if only a few control the resources and use those resources to both enhance their wealth and protect it in such a way as opportunity doesn't exist for the general masses. Things like education, fair wages, access to capital, property ownership, etc. cannot be limited to some elite group. I don't think that's the case in much of South and Central America which is why Socialists/Communists can keep their message alive.

[whiskeyandvicodin]

Rayndian? I guess you mean Randian or Objectivist? No, I'm neither..and why does my statement that the founders were human beings and thus prone to error single me out as an Objectivist?

As for the issue of child labor..I dont believe anyone should be coerced into working by the government or by any other forces. However, when companies like Nike are criticized for operating "sweatshops" in third world countries..one important fact is ignored. And that is, that the conditions in those factories are often much better than the conditions in the state-run factories in the very same countries. Also, american corporations operating in poorer countries pay three to five times the wages paid by state industries, on average.

The reaction against child labor has also hurt the same children it's designed to help in many ways (imagine that..a government policy hurting the people it's supposed to help..). For example, several years ago there was an uproar because american textile companies in Bangladesh were hiring children to work. Due to the political pressure imposed, the companies closed down their factories there. As a result, according to a UNDCP report issued later, many of these children were forced to take more dangerous jobs that paid less..and some even entered into prostitution. Was this the goal of the politicians rallying against child labor? I dont think so. But, nonetheless, it was the effect.

[GeronL]

Ousted Bolivian President speaks out

Sanchez de Lozada also criticized Carlos Mesa, his former vice president.

Mesa, who distanced himself from Sanchez de Lozada as resistance grew in the final months, was elevated to president following the Oct. 17 resignation.

Sanchez de Lozada said he has “well-founded doubts about [Mesa’s] participation” in the erosion of political support that preceded his resignation.

Nevertheless, Sanchez de Lozada said that he believes Mesa should be given “help and aid” in order to protect Bolivia’s fragile democracy