Panel Rules Justice Moore Failed to Respect & Comply with Law; Judge removed from Supreme Court

[smith288]

read my posts...

[Robert_Paulson2]

he has been disbarred as a judge...
he will not adjudicate a case in his state... probably ever again.

[CobaltBlue]

I think it was about his right to acknowledge God.

Not so. Moore already fought, and won, the right to display a copy of the Ten Commandments in his own personal courtroom. That's why he's called the "Ten Commandment Judge."

"In God We Trust," "So Help Me God," "God Save This Court," and so forth, are not challenged and will never be driven from the public square. Why not?

Because we all, Fundamentalist, Protestant, Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Scientist, Mormon, etc., etc., etc., worship a deity we call "God." In the public square we don't quibble about the small stuff - there is only one God.

Is that good enough for you? It's good enough for me.

But it's not good enough for Roy Moore. He believes that the only real God is the Trinity, in which Jesus is Lord. And he doesn't believe that anybody who doesn't believe that Jesus is Lord is entitled to protection under the First Amendment. And further, he believes that it is not only his right, but his obligation, to force all to submit to the concept that Jesus is Lord.

As a Catholic, I'd prefer not to have the state involved in promoting my religion. Every time the state gets involved in the Catholic religion, bad things happen.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

he has been disbarred as a judge... he will not adjudicate a case in his state... probably ever again.

Do you have a reference for that? As I said, the Alabama State Constitution allows the good people of Alabama to elect whomever they choose to their State Supreme Court. It doesn't matter whether he has been disbarred or previously removed from the bench. The only requirement is that he be a state resident. His electorate has a history of rallying around their fellow Alabamians who they see as victims to outside aggression for the cause of righteousness. It is highly unlikely that this incident will hurt his chances for reelection.

[xzins]

Moore Case by another judge

Click on the above to see another judge's perspective. It's interesting.

The question for me is this: "In a forum where everyone else is allowed free speech/expression, when is it acceptable to deny free speech/expression to a few?"

[Doctor Stochastic]

Every time the state gets involved in the Catholic religion, bad things happen.

State involvement in other sects, religions, beliefs, and aesthetic standards ins't too good either. (I'm endorsing your point with both hands. I think it can use amplifying.)

[CobaltBlue]

It's strange to hear you argue that Judge Moore considers himself to be one of a "few."

The argument that he actually makes is that he's part of the majority, and represents the will of the majority.

The argument goes "this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics, not Muslim or anything else" and therefore the Judeo-Christian God should be acknowledged by everybody, be they Christian, Jew, Muslim or atheist.

[xzins]

Bad wording only. Replace it with "any" instead of "few."

"In a forum where everyone else is allowed free speech/expression, when is it acceptable to deny free speech/expression to any?"

[CobaltBlue]

Judge Moore crossed the line between free speech and state coercion of the free speech rights of others.

Your rights stop at the end of my nose. My rights stop at the end of your nose. You don't have the right to punch me in the nose.

You have the right to free speech but not the right to a forum. You don't have the right to make me listen.

[xzins]

"In a forum where everyone else is allowed free speech/expression, when is it acceptable to deny free speech/expression to a few?"

I would think you could make a case for denying free expression to illegal aliens. You could probably make a case for denying free expression to incarcerated criminals.

Other than that I cannot think of anyone else one could deny free expression to.

Therefore, If there is a public square, I do have the right to stand there and speak aloud on any subject.

If there is a public space set aside for announcements, then they have a policy whereby decisions are made as to what to include as an announcement in that public space. They are required to administer that policy impartially for those who request use of that public space.

[CobaltBlue]

The rotunda of the Alabama State Supreme Court isn't a public square.

[xzins]

If it's paid for with taxpayer money, then it is public space. And it is paid for with taxpayer money.

It is, therefore, public space.

Someone MUST decorate it.

Who is in charge of that?

[CobaltBlue]

If it's paid for with taxpayer money, then it is public space.

Which isn't the same as a public forum.

[xzins]

In the ASC courthouse who is in charge of decoration?

[CobaltBlue]

Nice try, but it's not a decoration. That is completely contrary to Roy Moore's intention, which was, and is, serious.

I keep trying to get people to actually read the transcripts of the trial, where he actually says what his intentions were and are, but almost nobody will.

When I say that his intention is to force the people of Alabama to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, I am taking two things he actually said and drawing the obvious conclusion.

First, he wants to force the people of Alabama who come into the court house to acknowledge God.

Second, he believes that the First Amendment protection of religion only protects expressions of belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

Given my spotty comprehension of the various Protestant beliefs about Jews, I don't really know whether he'd actually try to force a Jew to acknowlege Jesus, but he certainly wants everybody else to do so.

If all you know is what you heard on TV, you haven't really read what he has to say.

[xzins]

Actually, it is Moore's intention to base this on free expression. Two comments of his demonstrate this:

1. He stated that on his way into district court he noticed they had a statue of a greek goddess set up and it didn't make him uncomfortable at all. (I heard him say this on FoxNews.)

2. This is from an interview today with CBN: MOORE:Because you put a monument of the Ten Commandments on the floor of the rotunda, is that a law respecting an establishment of religion made by Congress? It certainly isn't and it isn't prohibited by law. And when a federal district judge says, 'You can't do that,' then he becomes an interior decorator of your court

The point: He doesn't complain how they decorate their District court with a statue to a greek goddess and they shouldn't complain how he decorates his court with a statue with to the invisible God with God-words on it.

Watch and see if I'm not right.

[CobaltBlue]

If Roy Moore is now styling himself as an interior decorator, he's blowing smoke. No man would be willing to fight and die or lose his job for his decorating scheme.

[xzins]

Actually, I think it is the Chief Justice who makes the call on anything going on or getting displayed in the courthouse.

It's just a plain old free speech issue to me.

Have the government butt out of speech to include religious speech, and it'll all balance out over time. That's the point of the 1st amendment.

A rock monument in a courthouse is not a state religion. It's just a piece of rock, a decoration.

[CobaltBlue]

I deeply regret not being able to discuss this issue with someone who is willing to take the time and make the effort to fully understand Roy Moore and his ideals.

While I do not agree with him, I certainly wouldn't trivialize him as someone who's using the Ten Commandments as interior decoration.

That's so far from what he's really about that it would be an insult, except that I realize that you aren't serious, just misinformed.

[xzins]

See #696 above. Those are his words, not mine.

He sees it as his right to freely express himself about the decor in his own courthouse.

Since he's in charge of the decor, he's got a point.

He put up a decoration and noone liked it. But they did like the goddess at the district court.

I guess he just has bad taste in religious art.