Make it a crime to be gay: Alliance MP

Vancouver Sun ^ | 11/27/03 | Peter O'Neil

[nypokerface]

OTTAWA -- Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer, his party's family issues critic, says he'd support any initiative to put homosexuality back in the Criminal Code of Canada.

The U.S.-born former Baptist pastor also argues that the gay- rights movement's recent successes in areas like same-sex marriage stem from a "well-orchestrated ... conspiracy" that began in the 1960s.

The conspiracy included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms and the deliberate infiltration of North America's judiciary, schools, the religious community, and the entertainment industry, he said.

The movement's progress in gaining public acceptance for homosexuality would have been slowed, however, had Pierre Elliott Trudeau not legalized homosexuality in 1969, according to the MP.

"I do believe it was a mistake to have legalized it," Spencer (Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre) told The Vancouver Sun.

While he said no Canadian government would likely have the "courage" to reverse Trudeau's decision to remove the state from the nation's bedrooms, Spencer would support any bill that advocated such a move.

"If somebody brought a bill in the House to do that I'd certainly vote for it. Yeah, I'd like to see that [to] be the case. It's not that I would want spies in everybody's bedroom or anybody following anybody.

People who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives, like New Democratic MP Svend Robinson, could transform themselves into heterosexuals.

"I believe he could. I believe he would struggle with it," said Spencer, pointing out that someone could hate long-distance running or weightlifting but then train themselves in that area and learn to love it.

"So the human body can be sensitized or de-sensitized. The mind or the conscience that we have can be sharpened against right or wrong. It can be de-sensitized to think that whatever wrong that's around us is nothing but natural and we begin to accept that."

"I just wish that there was some way that society could stand up and say, 'This is not right.' "

But Spencer said any MP, and especially someone from his party, risks being labelled "a redneck or a hate-monger or homophobic" if they even mention such views in Parliament.

Spencer's pronouncements come at a difficult time for his party, which is stickhandling a merger with the Progressive Conservative party.

Delegates from both parties are due to vote on a ratification of the merger Dec. 6.

He made his comments during an hour-long interview after The Vancouver Sun obtained a copy of an e-mail from Spencer to a Canadian citizen outlining his conspiracy theory. The Sun requested an interview so Spencer could elaborate on his views.

"I'm being very, very free here to talk with you against all advice probably that I should ever talk to any reporter to this kind of link," he said near the end of the interview.

"But you know I'm feeling very, very deprived, you know, of my rights in that I cannot say openly -- I dare not say it in the House of Commons, even -- the full extent of what I really believe on some of these issues."

Spencer said the conspiracy began with a speech by a U.S. gay rights activist in the 1960s whose name he couldn't recall.

"His quote went something like this ... 'We will seduce your sons in the locker rooms, in the gymnasiums, in the hallways, in the playgrounds, and on and on, in this land.'

"It was quite a long quote stating what was going to happen to the young boys of North America."

Spencer said one of the major steps was to encourage followers to enter the ministry of various churches and to infiltrate North America's schools and teaching colleges.

"The activists that organized in those days (encouraged) people of their persuasion to enter into educational fields, and to do this with the feeling of a mission, you know, of going out there as pioneers in a -- quote-- human rights area, and I think they were successful as we've seen."

He said those who sympathize with homosexuals in today's judiciary, educational system, the entertainment industry, and churches aren't directly linked to the people who launched the conspiracy.

"I would think that is so long ago that we're seeing the outworkings of it decades down the line. And to say there's a conspiracy now is going to raise eyebrows, and (people will) say, 'Well, I don't think so. It's just the natural evolution.'

"But there are things, like what we're talking about, that once you set in motion, it's like shoving a snowball off the edge of the barn roof. Once you set it in motion you don't have to keep pushing. It sort of keeps going. It's that slippery slope that we talk about."

Trudeau, while justice minister, announced sweeping changes to the Criminal Code in 1967 that included legalizing homosexual acts done in private involving consenting adults. The bill wasn't passed until 1969, when the late Trudeau was prime minister.

Previously, those convicted of buggery or bestiality could be sentenced to a maximum 14 years in jail.

"There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation," Trudeau said famously after tabling the bill.

Spencer said he wouldn't want homosexuals to ever go to jail as a result of their "choice" to engage in homosexual acts.

"I wouldn't even suggest that there would be a penalty. I just think it's so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts."

He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)

"Let's just say if ... anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that's what happens to men living a gay lifestyle."

Spencer said some of his constituents fear the proposed Alliance-Progressive Conservative merger could make it more difficult for the merged party to take strong positions on social conservative issues.

"It may be more difficult to carry through with a strong family stand."

But he pointed out that most of the Tory caucus voted with the Alliance in opposing the Liberal government's plan to legalize same-sex marriage.

Spencer said he would welcome gay Tory MP Scott Brison, who supports the merger, but has voiced concern that the party could be perceived as socially intolerant, as a caucus colleague.

"He's a great guy and he's got a lot of great ideas. If he can live with us we can live with him."

Spencer, 61, was born in Missouri and moved to Canada in 1974. He became a Canadian citizen in 1999, a year before he narrowly beat former New Democratic Party MP John Solomon.

Among his other comments during the interview:

- He said there will soon be strong pushes to legalize polygamy and pedophilia.

"Polygamy is next on the list. More than one (spouse) ... We'll see that within the next very, very few years. Pedophilia is being pursued as we speak ... Some will say down to an eight-year-old, they think it's okay."

- He said he believes homosexuality, rather than being part of someone's nature, is something that is developed by young people who struggle with their identity in relation to a parent, such as an "overbearing mother" or cold father.

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Whew, just reading this thread on Thanksgiving I see we have the usual gay guy here...

And, anyone who thinks that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality needs to get their head examined.

Two words: Michael Jackson

[thoughtomator]

So you think a minor incident of harassment, however unpunished, is equatable with a system in which millions of men are legally severed from their own children and on top of that, forced to pay for the results of that severance?

You need a bit of perspective. A little titty-squeeze does not a second-class citizen make.

[Pedantic_Lady]

So you think a minor incident of harassment, however unpunished, is equatable with a system in which millions of men are legally severed from their own children and on top of that, forced to pay for the results of that severance?

No, that is simply one way in which women are made into second-class citizens in Britain. If you want more, I can surely provide much more anecdotal evidence from my own personal experiences, plus studies that show that the pay gap between men and women is increasing in Britain.

You need a bit of perspective. A little titty-squeeze does not a second-class citizen make.

Well, I hope I never work in the same office as you if you feel that sexual assault is no big deal.

[Calamari]

"He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)"

They did not look very hard. The first paragraph is from Vancouver, British Columbia!

http://www.cathfam.org/Hitems/ShortLife.html
Short & Lethal Life-span

Consider:
From the British Columbia Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, St Paul's Hospital, Vancouver, Canada:

"CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871. (emphasis added)" [International Journal of Epidemiology, Vol 26, 657-661}

Consider:
Excerpts from a report by the D.C. Family Research Council, citing dozens of experts and studies, including a study of some 5,200 obituaries, over five years, in 16 homosexual newspapers:

• Average age of men dying w/ AIDS is 39.

• The average age of homosexuals dying of all other causes, 41 (Average mafioso dies at 44).

• Only 1% lived to be 65 or older, as opposed to 80% for heterosexual men.

• Other studies have found only 3% of all homosexuals are over the age of 55.

While obituaries in the gay press focus on those out of the closet, they suggest that a homosexual "life-style" may cut two or three decades off one’s life expectancy.

According the FRC report, homosexual men are 3 times as likely to have abuse problems, 14 times more likely to have syphilis, 23 times more likely to contract any venereal disease, 5500 times (550,000%) more likely to contact AIDS.

Nor is the phenomenon restricted to males: "A compilation of recent studies shows that lesbians are 19 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had syphilis, twice as likely to suffer from genital warts, and four times as likely to have scabies".

TWO MAJOR STUDIES SHOW HOMOSEXUALITY / SUICIDE LINK

NEW YORK, Oct 19,99 (CWNews.com/LSN.ca) - Two extensive studies in this month’s issue of the AMA’s Archives of General Psychiatry confirmed a strong link between homosexual sex and suicide as well as a relationship between homosexuality and abnormal mental problems.

A study using 103 pairs of twins, one a practicing homosexual and the other not, found that homosexual behavior significantly increased the likelihood of suicide even after adjustments were made for substance abuse and depression. The practicing homosexual twin was over 5 times more likely to experience the suicidal symptoms. The study measured suicide risk in terms of the categories: "wanted to die," "suicidal ideation," "attempted suicide," and "thoughts about death." The study was unique for its thorough co-twin control design and its use of the most widely used instrument in psychiatric epidemiology, the Diagnostic Interview Schedule. The study report can found at (http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/issues/v56n10/full/yoa8085.html#a2)

A second study in the journal by David M. Ferguson and his team found that "gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people are at increased risk of psychiatric disorder and suicidal behaviors." Youths suffering from these disorders were four times as likely as their peers to suffer major depression, almost three times as likely to suffer generalized anxiety disorder, nearly four times as likely to experience conduct disorder, five times as likely to have nicotine dependence, six times as likely to suffer multiple disorders, and over six times as likely to have attempted suicide.

The study was based on a 21-year study of 1265 children born in Christchurch, New Zealand. Of 1007 subjects questioned only twenty-eight (2.8 percent) were classified as being gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

Click Here to Reach the cwnews.com web site

[thoughtomator]

Destroyed families, millions of enslaved men... doesn't bother you. A single incident of uninvited squeezing, now that's a pandemic.

Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.

[William Terrell]

. . ."true emancipation" begins "neither in the polls nor in the world's courtrooms," but "in a child's sublime assent to becoming self actualized with the keen-eyed help of a loving mentor (gardener) who is willing to carefully fertilize and tend to the growth of the emotions, spirit and intellectual flora of the garden of a child's soul - in comparison with which everything else is small.

And, of course, as an extremely remote and unconnected benefit, the "gardener"' gets to eat the produce.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Destroyed families, millions of enslaved men... doesn't bother you. A single incident of uninvited squeezing, now that's a pandemic.

If you think that having to make child support payments turns you into a slave, you have a pretty f***ed up idea of what it means to be a father.

Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that you are little more than a misogynistic troglodyte.

[thoughtomator]

I saw my own father as well as fathers of most of my schoolmates go through it, so I know exactly what it entails. The condition that the family courts impose on men is in fact true to the term slavery.

And if you think *I* am a misogynistic troglodyte then you are sure to be upset quite often as you read this forum. I'm pretty middle-of-the-road here. There are a number of women here who make excellent (and not by demonstration!) cases against female suffrage. And I'm pretty sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone to sympathize with your compressed breast trauma, especially when you're so flippant about a problem that is devastating families nationwide.

[Pedantic_Lady]

I saw my own father as well as fathers of most of my schoolmates go through it, so I know exactly what it entails. The condition that the family courts impose on men is in fact true to the term slavery.

Enlighten me, then. Tell me exactly how it fits the definition of slavery.

And if you think *I* am a misogynistic troglodyte then you are sure to be upset quite often as you read this forum. I'm pretty middle-of-the-road here. There are a number of women here who make excellent (and not by demonstration!) cases against female suffrage. And I'm pretty sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone to sympathize with your compressed breast trauma, especially when you're so flippant about a problem that is devastating families nationwide.

I guess it's a good thing I'm already married to a man who never implies that I shouldn't have a right to vote. Next thing you'll be telling me that foot binding makes women's feet dainty and erotic. I don't know anyone whose family was destroyed by divorce...and I grew up in the 80s, pal.

[thoughtomator]

You grew up in the 80s and didn't know anyone whose family was divorced? You must have grown up in a very small town. In my suburb it was over 50% by high school years.

Here's some reading about what the situation is like:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/keyword/familycourt

Check out the first one where the father can't even get custody when the mother was a convicted murderer. Does that qualify as second-class in your book? Sure does in mine.

[azhenfud]

"Christians who know that Christ loved the sinner,"

Christians who also know that Christ said in Matthew Ch.18 Vv. 15-17

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

We're to verse 17 already.

[kaylar]

Mr Spencer has been fired and Removed from the Caucus

Check out the National Post homepage-there's more articles on this story.

[Pedantic_Lady]

You grew up in the 80s and didn't know anyone whose family was divorced? You must have grown up in a very small town. In my suburb it was over 50% by high school years.

I wouldn't call Dallas a "small town."

Check out the first one where the father can't even get custody when the mother was a convicted murderer. Does that qualify as second-class in your book? Sure does in mine.

I think it's ridiculous to place a child with anyone who is a convicted felon; obviously if the mother is a convicted felon and the father isn't, the father should receive custody of the child. I have no position on who "should" receive custody or how custody issues should be resolved because I don't have children, I have only one friend who has children (and her son is only four months old), and I've never really known anyone who has had to deal with it...so I haven't really formed an opinion on it.

[Lazamataz]

Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.

I disagree. Women should be allowed to suffer.

[Calamari]

He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)"

I was posting in response to the statement that I am now highlighting in bold italics.

The links I found were found in a less than a one minute Google search.

Taken at face value, the Vancouver Sun's statement would lead one to believe that no evidence exists. This statement is at least misleading. There were many more links that I did not post but I thought that it was ironic that one of the first sources of "evidence" was right there in Vancouver.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

the "studies" you repeat and repeat and repeat

I only posted this once, here in this thread. Don't exaggerate the facts.

Maybe you have me confused with another poster.

[GeekDejure]

Pornographic images, literature or any other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on this wonderful FreeRepublic.com web site.

"FReep Moments," or stories describing an encounter with a FReeper with common sense that are "tasteful," "well written" and that are couched from a view that highlights "patriotism or other consertive encounters," are welcome at FReep-Love Garden, according to its frequently asked questions (FAQ) section. But it warns posters not to "include details that evoke a prurient interest in liberal relations."

"Written materials that appear erotic or that advocate or counsel engaging in liberal activity with any democrat constitutes a very serious offence" under the criminal codes of FreeRepublic.com, but articles that laud and praise Jim Robinson, the courageous founder thereof, are welcomed with open and loving arms!!! ;-))

.